Grunge~ Can it be considered heavy metal?

@the great duck----sorry if I was unclear. The point I was trying to make was that there seems to be very inherent but hard to truly describe aspects of 'metal'. Metal has such a wide spectrum and you do not hear this debate going on between a band like Hammerfall and a band like Nile. But you DO hear this bebate (currently in this thread) between a band like AiC and Testament (I was using Testament as an example of a undebatable metal band). There must be a reason, to some degree, as to why these bands are being debated and not others. That's all.
To me, I really don't care what they're called--I never liked any of those bands when they first came out and didn't like the fact that they were being called 'metal' at the time. So I guess in my world, they are not metal.

I am with Leo on this one. "Grunge" is more of a geographical label than a musical one. (MHO) Bands from this region had a much broader stroke of the brush music wise than say "glam" did. One could put on an unmarked record of "glam" and pretty much get the picture of what was going on. That isn't necessarily true with an unmarked "grunge" alnum.

James B. wrote:

I am with Leo on this one. "Grunge" is more of a geographical label than a musical one. (MHO) Bands from this region had a much broader stroke of the brush music wise than say "glam" did. One could put on an unmarked record of "glam" and pretty much get the picture of what was going on. That isn't necessarily true with an unmarked "grunge" alnum.

Very true Soundgarden did not sound like the Melvins, the Melvins did not sound like Mother Love Bone or Screaming Tree etc. Grunge was a label made up by people at MTV and other hipsters

manny wrote:

Grunge was a label made up by people at MTV and other hipsters

yeah & the term "metal" was agreed upon by the United Nations.

mc666 wrote:

manny wrote:

Grunge was a label made up by people at MTV and other hipsters

yeah & the term "metal" was agreed upon by the United Nations.

Yes it was, this was part of the SALT treaties from the mid 1970's. It was agreed upon to avoid a nuclear holocaust after the genre wars among the United States and the then USSR treatned to extend the Cold War beyond the mere words.

First time I ever heard the term "grunge" was when it was referenced as "grunge metal" in the late eighties. It also was bashed for being so derivative of so many other genres. Personally thats what first appealed to me about it. I still love the fact that a band like the Melvins have in their catalogue a great hardcore record and metal record. At the time I saw the whole scene being a breaking down or blending of genre. Mixing in various elements that I loved about music.

I can see both sides to this debate. And really kind of agree with all of them to an extent. I guess the older I get the more I see music as two genres - stuff I like and listen to, and stuff I don't.

To me there is absolutely no way any of those grunge bands are metal! None, zip, zilch!! Its just another form of hard rock.

Keep your grunge out of my metal!!! haha

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

Awwwww c'mon. Nothin' wrong with a good ole fashioned circle jerk thread now and again.

When this whole grunge crap started on MYV's Headbanger's Ball... it was irritating. So those that THINK grunge is metal, I blame MTV for that crap!

Fat Freddy wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

Awwwww c'mon. Nothin' wrong with a good ole fashioned circle jerk thread now and again.

unless you're in the center of the circle.

manny wrote:

mc666 wrote:

manny wrote:

Grunge was a label made up by people at MTV and other hipsters

yeah & the term "metal" was agreed upon by the United Nations.

Yes it was, this was part of the SALT treaties from the mid 1970's. It was agreed upon to avoid a nuclear holocaust after the genre wars among the United States and the then USSR treatned to extend the Cold War beyond the mere words.

Look at a band like The Melvins, or Soundgarden, or Alice In Chains...they all borrow significantly from Black Sabbath. You can hear it plainly. The simple fact of their geographic proximity got them lumped in with "grunge" (ie, any band from Seattle in the early 90s).

They're not "Metal" in the "denim & leather, horns in the air" sense...but they're certainly on the fringes.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Look at a band like The Melvins, or Soundgarden, or Alice In Chains...they all borrow significantly from Black Sabbath. You can hear it plainly. The simple fact of their geographic proximity got them lumped in with "grunge" (ie, any band from Seattle in the early 90s).

They're not "Metal" in the "denim & leather, horns in the air" sense...but they're certainly on the fringes.

Growing up in the big 80's, metal was defined under a huge umberella and it included everybody from Dokken to Venom and they even included veteran bands such as Aerosmith and AC/DC.

When Soundgarden and Alice In Chains were first signed to major labels, they were marketed as metal bands, and Nirvana even had a song given away on a free tape from Concrete Management which soley promoted metal bands.

manny wrote:

Growing up in the big 80's, metal was defined under a huge umberella and it included everybody from Dokken to Venom and they even included veteran bands such as Aerosmith and AC/DC.

This is one of the primary reasons I dislike the term, too many bands with little in common other than power chords...all being lumped under this huge umbrella that is "metal".

Then the sub-genres started to kick in and made things even worse.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Look at a band like The Melvins, or Soundgarden, or Alice In Chains...they all borrow significantly from Black Sabbath. You can hear it plainly.

Agreed. Which is why I believe Soundgarden and The Melvins have more in common with Kyuss, Sleep and other bands mining the Sabbath vein than they do Pearl Jam or Stone Temple Pilots.

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

Oscar is Grunge!

S.D. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Look at a band like The Melvins, or Soundgarden, or Alice In Chains...they all borrow significantly from Black Sabbath. You can hear it plainly.

Agreed. Which is why I believe Soundgarden and The Melvins have more in common with Kyuss, Sleep and other bands mining the Sabbath vein than they do Pearl Jam or Stone Temple Pilots.

I also agree but Pearl Jam where also influenced by classic hard rock/metal bands, you can hear that in their music, they guys (not just Pearl Jam) may have name checked Joy Divison, The Clash, X, and host of other bands, but their music tells another story IMO.

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

Oscar is Grunge!

But his home is made of metal !!!

manny wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

Oscar is Grunge!

But his home is made of metal !!!

True! Haha!

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

Oscar is Grunge!

But his home is made of metal !!!

True! Haha!

Thus proving my vote to be correct that grunge is indeed metal !!!

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

I saw this coming the minute I saw this thread......cant say I am surprised

Addy wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Let's all take turns pissing into the wind.

I saw this coming the minute I saw this thread......cant say I am surprised

Probably about as surprised as I was to see yet ANOTHER pointless "Is this metal?" thread.

S.D. wrote:

Probably about as surprised as I was to see yet ANOTHER pointless "Is this metal?" thread.

I know it.

All we have to do is check and see what the magazines and "music journalists" said at the time. That's all the evidence you need!

It makes thinking really easy when you let others do it for you.

Popular opinion = truth!