Grunge~ Can it be considered heavy metal?

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Grunge wasn't exactly solo free. Pearl Jam incorporated some hendrix style wah solos (on the first album) and even Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit had a very basic melody solo too. AIC used solos all the time as well...

True.

I must also mention that assuming someone can't play guitar solos because they never play them isn't stated as a mockery. Mortification's guitarist Michael Carlisle, who played on defining albums like "Scrolls of the Megilloth" didn't perform any solos because he concentrated on being a rhythm guitarist. Soloing wasn't his thing and I can only assume that some of the grunge rockers felt the same way,. That's not a put-down, just an assumption.

Carlisle's playing on the Martyr's Shrine album desperately needed a few solos to break up the monotony.

Most guys who can't play any solos can't play rhythm very well either.

Sure, there are exceptions, but it's a good rule.

Even Hetfield and Schaffer can play a decent, albeit basic solo when they want to.

Troublezone wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Grunge wasn't exactly solo free. Pearl Jam incorporated some hendrix style wah solos (on the first album) and even Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit had a very basic melody solo too. AIC used solos all the time as well...

True.

I must also mention that assuming someone can't play guitar solos because they never play them isn't stated as a mockery. Mortification's guitarist Michael Carlisle, who played on defining albums like "Scrolls of the Megilloth" didn't perform any solos because he concentrated on being a rhythm guitarist. Soloing wasn't his thing and I can only assume that some of the grunge rockers felt the same way,. That's not a put-down, just an assumption.

Carlisle's playing on the Martyr's Shrine album desperately needed a few solos to break up the monotony.

Agreed. I think a lot of 90's albums suffered from the lack of solos. Biogenesis comes to mind. Morty brought in outside players to do some soloing.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Most guys who can't play any solos can't play rhythm very well either.

Sure, there are exceptions, but it's a good rule.

Even Hetfield and Schaffer can play a decent, albeit basic solo when they want to.

Eric Peterson can throwdown some good solos too.

Troublezone wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Most guys who can't play any solos can't play rhythm very well either.

Sure, there are exceptions, but it's a good rule.

Even Hetfield and Schaffer can play a decent, albeit basic solo when they want to.

Eric Peterson can throw down some good solos too.

Yeah, his simple leads are good most of the time. Many people even think they are Skolnick/Murphy.

I've always felt that a little too much attention is paid to guitar solos when discussing the merits of a player. I mean AC/DC has been recording since 1974 and Malcolm doesn't solo...but I've never heard anyone diss his playing because of it. He chooses to play his role and he does it exceptionally well.

He's not "less of a musician" because he doesn't play solos.

S.D. wrote:

I've always felt that a little too much attention is paid to guitar solos when discussing the merits of a player. I mean AC/DC has been recording since 1974 and Malcolm doesn't solo...but I've never heard anyone diss his playing because of it. He chooses to play his role and he does it exceptionally well.

He's not "less of a musician" because he doesn't play solos.

Well, writing is one skill. Playing is one skill. Showing creativity and outside-the-box thinking is another. There are different things people can excel at.

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I've always felt that a little too much attention is paid to guitar solos when discussing the merits of a player. I mean AC/DC has been recording since 1974 and Malcolm doesn't solo...but I've never heard anyone diss his playing because of it. He chooses to play his role and he does it exceptionally well.

He's not "less of a musician" because he doesn't play solos.

Yup. Just look at Rudolph Schenker and Scott Ian. Two guys who might have played a total of four solos between them in their entire career, yet have a monster, distinctive tone and have immaculate timing.

I'd much rather hear a guy who has tight, flowing rhythm playing that's there for the overall song than some show-off zipping up and down the fretboard with no feel and soul, masturbating the neck of the guitar.

There is truth in what ToB stated and also the refrence to Malcom, Rudolf, and Mr Ian.

I think grunge straddles the line between hard rock & metal just as much as '80s glam scene did. In either sub-genre, there are some bands where you could say "yes, they are metal" and others where you could say "nah, that's hard rock".

Watching Metal Evolution, I thought it was pretty funny seeing some of the journalists/musicians from the grunge scene emphatically stating grunge is not metal and metal is something they basically look down upon. Then you had the guy from the Melvins casually stating grunge is metal and that heavy metal is cool.

Necro-bump!

I could not find a better thread for this:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/symphony_xs_michael_romeo_nobody_gave_a_shit_about_guitar_playing_in_the_90s_the_worse_you_played_the_better_it_was.html

Grunge was 70's rock repackaged. Nirvana were different and I always saw them as way more punk than any other band in that scene.

Either way, not metal.

Troublezone wrote:

Grunge wasn't exactly solo free. Pearl Jam incorporated some hendrix style wah solos (on the first album) and even Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit had a very basic melody solo too. AIC used solos all the time as well...

There are many death metal bands who don't have solos, and no one throws them to the wolves for it.

(This is far from a jab towards these bands or death metal, as most people here seem to hate death metal with a passion, and I love it.)

Is Wham a punk band? Is Backstreet Boys a grind band? Hell no grunge is not metal! It took influences from metal but that don't make it so. The Metal Evolution bit on this was pure CRAP!

Eyesore wrote:

Both rock and metal. Grunge is of course not a music style. Like others have said, some bands leaned more toward rock, while others leaned toward metal.







Not metal?

Still true.

I care the less for Grunge, expect Pink Cream 69's album "Change'

sharatan777 wrote:

I care the less for Grunge, expect Pink Cream 69's album "Change'

And even that is the worst PC69 album!

Grunge is not metal

Kurt Cobain in an interview i heard years ago described Grunge as not metal but could appeal to a metal audience.

Come to think of it, I dont listen much to either anymore whoa!