Grunge~ Can it be considered heavy metal?

No

I hate it when people say that Glam Metal is not metal. It is. It's just that a lot of bands watered down the Motley Crue, Ratt etc. style by adding a lot of AOR influence and then got lumped in with the genre.

IMO---Grunge is not metal. Although some grunge bands may have incorporated some 'metallic elements' into their music is doesn't make it Metal. Just because a band has heavier songs it doesn't change the essence of who they are as a band. For example, Elton John, Kansas, REO speedwagon (all '70's I know) had 'heavier' songs, they were just hard rock bands. (or newer bands like Sum 41, Good Charlotte). AiC and Soundgarden had heavier songs/metallic elements to some of their songs. But musically, they were Grunge.

There is soemthing very essential but hard to describe about what is metal. There are lots of differing opinions regarding this subject but most people here (I would guess) would agree that Hammerfall and Nile are both 'metal'. But not so with, AiC (or other bands being discussed here) and Testament.

krokus wrote:

Rock yes, but metal of course not. They didnt have the right attitude, the sound, the look etc....nothing to do with metal imo. They even hated all those great heavy metal bands.

WTF does attitude and look have to do with it? And besides, I know AiC and Soundgarden were heavily influenced by Black Sabbath.

@ snoolui: Glam metal, just like grunge, is not a real genre of music. It had all kinds of bands ranging from traditional metal to '80s style power metal to hard rock to funk rock to power pop to blues-rock to AOR (AOR, hard rock and trad being the most prominent, and in most cases where the band played one of the other genres I named, they mixed it with one of these three). The only thing they all had in common were the looks.

@allthingsmetal: First of all, Testament aren't even grunge and nobody ever argued their metalness, why do you bring them up?
And second, both AiC AND Soundgarden are present on the Metal Archives, so I'm pretty sure they're metal, unlike some stuff a lot of people here'd consider metal (like Kiss or AC/DC).

I would have to say that Grunge isn't really a genre in itself, it's more of a movement of rock/hard rock/metal bands from the Seattle area that got popular in the early 90's. They all shared that sort of darker (at least compared to glam metal) lyrical themes and image.

As already stated,the grunge bands were considered metal when it came onto the scene. Alice In Chains and Nirvana were at times my metal selection of the month through Columbia House. And as the movement grew (and my interest waned),more and more bands were signed from Seattle that would never be considered metal.Bands that were even close to playing metal were more or less ignored. I'm leaning towards Grunge not being metal.

Calling grunge metal would be like calling the Sex Pistols or the Ramones metal. I see more of a classic rock, punk, and 80s alternative sound to the grunge movement. Like metal its hard to pin down the bands though. AIC sounded nothing like Nirvana and STP sounded nothing like Pearl Jam. Nirvana was a totally different sound than soundgarden (who I might add changed their sound over the years...but then again maybe thats why we have subgeneres...If someone says they love metal they have to be specific about what type of metal they like.

brokentulsa wrote:

I see more of a classic rock, punk, and 80s alternative sound to the grunge movement.

Agree with this statement.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

krokus wrote:

Rock yes, but metal of course not. They didnt have the right attitude, the sound, the look etc....nothing to do with metal imo. They even hated all those great heavy metal bands.

WTF does attitude and look have to do with it? And besides, I know AiC and Soundgarden were heavily influenced by Black Sabbath.

Some people (like Krokus) consider metal to be more than just a musical genre, they see it more like a lifestyle. I know Krokus is like this because he's made similar statements before.

To me, metal is just a style of music but I know it is more than that to some people. There's not right or wrong answer to this whole "Is it metal" question IMO; it all just O.

Glam and Grunge were both mainstream and proven moneymakers. True metal is hardly ever popular with the mainstream. Same with nu-metal, I don't consider Slipknot or System of a Down "metal". To me, metal is Sabbath, Maiden, Nile, Sodom etc.Ever notice also that the popular rock genres are rarely technical or progressive in nature? Didn't grunge say that guitar solos were masterbatory noodling and that anyone could do it?

Cognitive Dissonance wrote:

Glam and Grunge were both mainstream and proven moneymakers. True metal is hardly ever popular with the mainstream. Same with nu-metal, I don't consider Slipknot or System of a Down "metal". To me, metal is Sabbath, Maiden, Nile, Sodom etc.Ever notice also that the popular rock genres are rarely technical or progressive in nature? Didn't grunge say that guitar solos were masterbatory noodling and that anyone could do it?

If anyone could do it, why couldn't they do it?

I see Grunge as a subgenre of Metal like Hair Metal or Thrash Metal...

I feel that early Soundgarden can definitely be considered heavy metal

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

I see Grunge as a subgenre of Metal like Hair Metal or Thrash Metal...

I don't even see grunge as an actual genre of music but if I did, I would consider it a subgenre of metal, and remember the term alternative metal was used to describe the sound of bands such as Faith No More and Jane's Addiction

adrian wrote:

I feel that early Soundgarden can definitely be considered heavy metal

Agreed. Also, Alice In Chains was up to that crappy self-titled release with the 3-legged dog on the cover (that I foolishly bought brand new on the day of release).

brokentulsa wrote:

STP sounded nothing like Pearl Jam. .

Actually, when STP released their first album, they were called Pearl Jam clones believe it or not!

Cognitive Dissonance wrote:

Didn't grunge say that guitar solos were masterbatory noodling and that anyone could do it?

No, that was nu metal when they dropped the solos. Plus, I remember posts here that have called long solos "wankery" (usually referring to Yngwie, Dream Theater or any of the progressive metal bands)

adrian wrote:

I feel that early Soundgarden can definitely be considered heavy metal

Soundgarden was around before the "grunge" tag existed, they were co-opted later. I've always believed they have just as much in common with bands like Kyuss or Sleep as they do with the so-called "grunge" movement.

thejokeriv wrote:

brokentulsa wrote:

STP sounded nothing like Pearl Jam. .

Actually, when STP released their first album, they were called Pearl Jam clones believe it or not!

...or "Clone Temple Pilots"

ultmetal wrote:

Watching the clips of Metal Evolution and they ask the question, can grunge be included as part of heavy metal? What's your opinion?

Why do I feel like a can of worms was just opened.....

I am actually looking forward to the next segment of Metal Evolution, and yes I think Grunge can be considered metal , not straight up traditional metal. I dont consider bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains metal. I think they possess elements in their music that might appeal to a Heavy metal audience. Kurt Cobain said as much in an interview that Nirvana could appeal to a Metal audience. I think Grunge is just another branch in the tree that is Heavy Metal just like Black Metal, Thrash, Hair, Glam, Industrial, etc....

I remember when STP was compared to a Pearl Jam clone and I am glad they got out of that because they turned into one of my favorite bands. I was never a fan of Pearl Jam.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

I see Grunge as a subgenre of Metal like Hair Metal or Thrash Metal...

This.

so far, 13 to 14, closer than I thought it would be.

It has some metal influence, like metalcore or some other metal hybrid, but is not pure metal. So both answers are incorrect.

Anything that adheres to the Pop Culture isn't Metal to my ears, so No, Grunge is definitely not Metal

Some people define Metal based on the sound
Some define it by the attitude


Metal is all attitude, even if you crank up a lame GRUNGE or DEATHCORE song at 120 Decibels, a Hair Metal will sound more metal at lower volumes

ultmetal wrote:

Cognitive Dissonance wrote:

Glam and Grunge were both mainstream and proven moneymakers. True metal is hardly ever popular with the mainstream. Same with nu-metal, I don't consider Slipknot or System of a Down "metal". To me, metal is Sabbath, Maiden, Nile, Sodom etc.Ever notice also that the popular rock genres are rarely technical or progressive in nature? Didn't grunge say that guitar solos were masterbatory noodling and that anyone could do it?

If anyone could do it, why couldn't they do it?

Actually, AiC, Soundgarden, and Peal Jam had plenty of guitar solos (Jerry Cantrell is one hell of a soloist). I'm going to have to go with ToB on this. Grunge as a whole is niether metal nor is it not metal (though I consider the first two AiC albums metal).