Barren Cross

Yeesh... as usual, I kick up a hornet's nest without really meaning to...

Remember when bands used to break up or kick people out over the time honored "musical differences" or mundane reasons like "so-and-so f**ked our lead singer's girlfriend so we asked him to leave" or whatever??

Fat Freddy wrote:

Yeesh... as usual, I kick up a hornet's nest without really meaning to...

Remember when bands used to break up or kick people out over the time honored "musical differences" or mundane reasons like "so-and-so f**ked our lead singer's girlfriend so we asked him to leave" or whatever??

Yeah, I remember. But back then musicians didn't have personal pulpits blogs.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Yeesh... as usual, I kick up a hornet's nest without really meaning to...

Remember when bands used to break up or kick people out over the time honored "musical differences" or mundane reasons like "so-and-so f**ked our lead singer's girlfriend so we asked him to leave" or whatever??

Whatever you do Freddy donot post that Wanda Sykes has come out of the closet on this thread!!!!

manny wrote:

Whatever you do Freddy donot post that Wanda Sykes has come out of the closet on this thread!!!!

If only Mike Lee had done something boring to get kicked out of the band, like eaten all the green M&M's from the backstage catering area. Then there wouldn't be any drama.

spectrefate wrote:

Yeah, I remember. But back then musicians didn't have personal pulpits blogs.

Back then Christian musicians preached from the stage and people didn't like that either.

The great commission, fellas...

"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

later...Cliffy

Cliffy wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

Yeah, I remember. But back then musicians didn't have personal pulpits blogs.

Back then Christian musicians preached from the stage and people didn't like that either.

All the while still drinking and doing drugs and banging chicks and partying...not all of them, but enough of them...

There are no "hornet's nets" here. We are having a good discussion. That's why it's called a "discussion board".

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

there is absolutely nothing wrong with a single thing that he says.

In your perspective...but not everyone agrees...not everyone even agrees on Scripture interpretation. So, you think he's right and others think he's wrong and the world keeps turning...

That's basically what I was trying to say.

Cliffy,
I don't think we disagree at all. Repentance for sin is essential. However, to say that anyone is living sin free and "never willfully sins" is ridiculous. We all struggle with sin. We all blow it. The Apostle Paul explained this in great detail when he described the war between the flesh and the spirit. The Holy Spirit living inside us is what convicts us when we do screw up. That should cause genuine repentance and a willful desire to never return to that sin. However, we all know that "we know what is right, yet we still do what is wrong". It's a daily battle.

I don't know what Pastor Bob has been blogging recently. I only know him from the many times I've met him and heard him preach. I've not heard him preach anything that was contrary to the Bible. I also know that he shows genuine love for people and sharing his faith. I have a lot of respect for the man but I cannot defend his blog, which I have not read.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Cliffy wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

Yeah, I remember. But back then musicians didn't have personal pulpits blogs.

Back then Christian musicians preached from the stage and people didn't like that either.

All the while still drinking and doing drugs and banging chicks and partying...not all of them, but enough of them...

Yep...and we know who was real and who wasn't by the reality of their lives today.

later...Cliffy

Cliffy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Cliffy wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

Yeah, I remember. But back then musicians didn't have personal pulpits blogs.

Back then Christian musicians preached from the stage and people didn't like that either.

All the while still drinking and doing drugs and banging chicks and partying...not all of them, but enough of them...

Yep...and we know who was real and who wasn't by the reality of their lives today.

Not always...some real ones fell and some fake ones came around...

ultmetal wrote:

Cliffy,
I don't think we disagree at all. Repentance for sin is essential. However, to say that anyone is living sin free and "never willfully sins" is ridiculous. We all struggle with sin. We all blow it. The Apostle Paul explained this in great detail when he described the war between the flesh and the spirit. The Holy Spirit living inside us is what convicts us when we do screw up. That should cause genuine repentance and a willful desire to never return to that sin. However, we all know that "we know what is right, yet we still do what is wrong". It's a daily battle.

I don't know what Pastor Bob has been blogging recently. I only know him from the many times I've met him and heard him preach. I've not heard him preach anything that was contrary to the Bible. I also know that he shows genuine love for people and sharing his faith. I have a lot of respect for the man but I cannot defend his blog, which I have not read.

Right on, man...I don't think we disagree either, dude. Oh...and it has been said by some that though Paul is talking in the present tense there, that he was actually referring to himself before he was saved. (Although, I will say that the only reason that that line of reasoning gives me pause is because without salvation, the kind of struggling with the flesh that Paul is referring to isn't even possible.)

Good discussion indeed!

later...Cliffy

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Not always...some real ones fell and some fake ones came around...

"Real ones" don't fall, dude. At least I don't believe so. To me, you can't convince a true believer that you were once one of them, but no longer are.

By "fall" I mean fall away...as in no longer are a believer. If you no longer are then you never really were.

later...Cliffy

Cliffy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Not always...some real ones fell and some fake ones came around...

"Real ones" don't fall, dude. At least I don't believe so. To me, you can't convince a true believer that you were once one of them, but no longer are.

By "fall" I mean fall away...as in no longer are a believer. If you no longer are then you never really were.

later...Cliffy

That, again, is your own perspective/opinion...as you said. It's not an absolute...they may not always stay fallen...but they indeed do fall away for a time...

Cliffy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Not always...some real ones fell and some fake ones came around...

"Real ones" don't fall, dude. At least I don't believe so. To me, you can't convince a true believer that you were once one of them, but no longer are.

By "fall" I mean fall away...as in no longer are a believer. If you no longer are then you never really were.

later...Cliffy

That's not what the RCC teaches, who btw have more athority than you.

Cliffy wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

Yeah, I remember. But back then musicians didn't have personal pulpits blogs.

Back then Christian musicians preached from the stage and people didn't like that either.

The great commission, fellas...

"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

later...Cliffy

What in the wide, wide, wide world of sports does the great commision have to do w/metal music?!

Cliffy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Not always...some real ones fell and some fake ones came around...

"Real ones" don't fall, dude. At least I don't believe so. To me, you can't convince a true believer that you were once one of them, but no longer are.

By "fall" I mean fall away...as in no longer are a believer. If you no longer are then you never really were.

later...Cliffy

Hey Cliffy - I respectfully disagree. I get the feeling that we probably don't agree on to much theologically, but you know what? It's all good, discussion is good. It doesn't make me or you any less of a believer in Jesus Christ. Just so you undersatnd I am not attacking you personally.

Back to the discussion - my issue with that statement is similar to issue with reformed techology or calvinism in general, if calvinism is correct, then you can't be responsible for your own sin.

Let's see if we can steer this discussion back to BARREN CROSS, shall we?

The questions are

How can a TRUE believer ever walk away?

Was someone who once claimed to be a true believer but now no longer believes ever really a true believer?

The very idea that someone holding the keys to the kind of eternal life that we were all originally meant to live and then just up and decides that it was all a just bunch of hooey ever really believed in the first place is an insult to the faith we all hold dear and the God who made us.

Eternal life is coming for us all...I'm in line to ensure mine is the one I was made for.

later...Cliffy

thejokeriv wrote:

then you can't be responsible for your own sin.

Dude...being born makes you responsible.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Let's see if we can steer this discussion back to BARREN CROSS, shall we?

Great band with an amazing catalog!

One of my absolute all-time favorites.

Quote :

How can a TRUE believer ever walk away?

I'm sure there are a myriad of ways...ask one.

Quote :

Was someone who once claimed to be a true believer but now no longer believes ever really a true believer?

I would wager that you could never convince a former believer that they never were...especially a former minister (be it musical or otherwise)...

CRAP!!! I didn't follow my own advice!!

Back to BARREN CROSS the band...we can discuss theology somewhere else...

Cliffy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Let's see if we can steer this discussion back to BARREN CROSS, shall we?

Great band with an amazing catalog!

One of my absolute all-time favorites.

Agreed...I love Mike Lee's voice...always have...and you can't argue with the greatness of Atomic Arena and State Of Control...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Cliffy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Let's see if we can steer this discussion back to BARREN CROSS, shall we?

Great band with an amazing catalog!

One of my absolute all-time favorites.

Agreed...I love Mike Lee's voice...always have...and you can't argue with the greatness of Atomic Arena and State Of Control...

Two of my favorite albums. I also love their first album, the original mix on Star Song. Lost of nostalgia on that one for me.

Rock For The King is cool...nostalgia city for me too...but once the Elefante's got hold of them they really came into thier own, IMO...

Uh...yea, let's get back to Barren Cross shall we? Y'all are getting too deep and intellectual for me anyway. ATOMIC ARENA is easily one of my top 10 metal CDs of all time, Christian or non.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Uh...yea, let's get back to Barren Cross shall we? Y'all are getting too deep and intellectual for me anyway. ATOMIC ARENA is easily one of my top 10 metal CDs of all time, Christian or non.

Every song on that record is a killer...