Random Metal Thoughts

Runicen wrote:

Where does everyone else draw the line between, "Meh, this song is about horrible stuff, but I can tell it's not serious so it's ok to be entertained by it," and "Holy crap, I feel dirty?"

That's a good question.

I agree, Cannibal Corpse doesn't really bother me. The cover to Animal Magnetism does though, and it is considerably tamer.

Some times the insanely over the top stuff is much easier to digest, for me.

And about the 'what is wrong for men is wrong for women' as an argument for equality...I agree with that to some extent, but as Boris said, our society is not based on gender equality at all, unfortunately. Obviously, it is way closer now than it was 60 years ago and 100 years ago and so on. So if women choose to subvert that and flip the traditionally sexist stuff...that, to me, is empowering. Now, a woman musician dressing in scant outfits and being sexual on stage...that is nothing new and nothing shocking any more. But that was just the example Dallas brought up, so it's the one used.

Just how sexist our society is (or at least America) I'm sure will become blatant if Hilary Clinton runs for president. I mean, people tried to claim America is no longer a racist country, but when Obama was running and when he came into office, suddenly the internet became a place where people felt okay posting pictures of Reagan bottle feeding a monkey with statements like "When Reagan used to babysit Obama." And racism is something that is a serious taboo and people felt okay posting garbage like that. For many people, sexism isn't even that big a deal so I can only imagine how many Facebook friends I have that I will realize are assholes when Hilary runs.

But I am one of those people: A good for nothing, bleeding heart, pinko lefty liberal.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Runicen wrote:

Where does everyone else draw the line between, "Meh, this song is about horrible stuff, but I can tell it's not serious so it's ok to be entertained by it," and "Holy crap, I feel dirty?"

That's a good question.

I agree, Cannibal Corpse doesn't really bother me. The cover to Animal Magnetism does though, and it is considerably tamer.

Some times the insanely over the top stuff is much easier to digest, for me.

And about the 'what is wrong for men is wrong for women' as an argument for equality...I agree with that to some extent, but as Boris said, our society is not based on gender equality at all, unfortunately. Obviously, it is way closer now than it was 60 years ago and 100 years ago and so on. So if women choose to subvert that and flip the traditionally sexist stuff...that, to me, is empowering. Now, a woman musician dressing in scant outfits and being sexual on stage...that is nothing new and nothing shocking any more. But that was just the example Dallas brought up, so it's the one used.

Just how sexist our society is (or at least America) I'm sure will become blatant if Hilary Clinton runs for president. I mean, people tried to claim America is no longer a racist country, but when Obama was running and when he came into office, suddenly the internet became a place where people felt okay posting pictures of Reagan bottle feeding a monkey with statements like "When Reagan used to babysit Obama." And racism is something that is a serious taboo and people felt okay posting garbage like that. For many people, sexism isn't even that big a deal so I can only imagine how many Facebook friends I have that I will realize are assholes when Hilary runs.

But I am one of those people: A good for nothing, bleeding heart, pinko lefty liberal.

I am pinko commie liberal myself

The problem with any consideration of gender equality is that you're looking at two sub-sections of a species with major biological differences. That isn't just reproductive. We're talking about the predisposition of women to have stronger lower bodies than upper bodies and men with vice-versa. Likewise, I've read some pretty compelling arguments for inequality in income being down to time lost to child-raising while male counterparts remain in the field and simply rack up raises for "staying the course." Personally, I can't find a logical way in which genuine equality of outcome can be arrived at.

That said, I think equality of opportunity should exist and often enough does.

As for Obama, I get pretty pissed at the idea that you have to be racist to disagree with him and I think that gets confused for the more overt "Reagan babysitting..." picture and the like far too often. I think he's a crap person who prances around like he's a rockstar but he's everything I hated about Bush on steroids. The military intervention (and completely batcrap lack of strategy when he does which makes it worse for the troops and the occupied countries but WAY more profitable for the military contractors who are on speed dial), the invasion of privacy, the attitude that seems only a hair removed from divine right of kings... It's just a total $#@% show as far as I'm concerned and that has everything to with what he does and his flimsy justifications for it and zero to do with his race.

Likewise, there's plenty going against Hillary as a person, let alone a politician and this latest fiasco over her Sec of State emails is a prime reason I wouldn't want her within sniffing distance of elective office. It has nothing to do with her ovaries and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that she's untrustworthy slime vying for position in a federal government that's already all about overreach, shredding the Constitution, etc.

Honestly, if I have any sexism at all towards Hillary, it's that I'd probably hate her more if she was a dude. My brain defaults to "I'd like to see a 16 ton weight drop on this ass" when it's a guy I dislike. With women, it's more a 4 ton. Fairer sex and all that.

But the bottom line when any talk of "equality" comes up is that it's meaningless as long as there's an attitude of "One rule for me and another for thee" from one group to another. That's textbook inequality and simply switching the foot the shoe is on doesn't make it right because the other foot go to wear it. You just retire those Ugg boots for good and both feet are the better for it.

Jesus, my metaphors are getting silly today...

So, what metal album would everyone liken to a talking fish wearing a tophat? My vote is on Helloween's Chameleon.

Runicen wrote:

As for Obama, I get pretty pissed at the idea that you have to be racist to disagree with him and I think that gets confused for the more overt "Reagan babysitting..." picture and the like far too often.

Dude, I didn't even read your reasons for not liking him, as it doesn't even matter to this discussion. You generally seem like a reasonable guy, even if you disagree with whatever I agree on in the conversation, and maybe you were just venting because I'm sure it comes up a lot, but I did not say a word equating disliking Obama with being racist. I pointed to a specific example that I see get posted all the time. Like...all the time. Which to me, signifies that racism is still a problem. And the only reason I used that as an example was to qualify my belief that if/when Hilary runs, internet and social media will open the floodgates on some shitty, sexist memes, posts, pics and rants.

I'd hope that most people here are not racist, whatever their political beliefs are. I know many people here don't like Obama because of other threads and I don't get a racist vibe from this place (I wouldn't post here if I did because not discussing stuff with racists trumps discussing Iron Maiden).

I will say, not regarding any specific person, I have never understood how the metal community became so conservative? Seems weird to me. I feel like a lot of my punk rock friends are conservative too. Equally as weird. But it is what is...as long as people are cool, I don't give a shit what box they check on a voter ballot.

One thing about all of this.

Does anyone know of any female bands that sexually or socially dominate submissive slave men as a part of their imagery?

Also it would be cool if Hilary was a dude as it would make him and Bill gay and this would most likely cause Rush Limbaugh to explode! 

Boris2008 wrote:

One thing about all of this.

Does anyone know of any female bands that sexually or socially dominate submissive slave men as a part of their imagery?

Also it would be cool if Hilary was a dude as it would make him and Bill gay and this would most likely cause Rush Limbaugh to explode! 

Ha!

And for the question....the only thing I can think of off hand is, Madonna. Though I'm sure it's been done somewhere.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Runicen wrote:

As for Obama, I get pretty pissed at the idea that you have to be racist to disagree with him and I think that gets confused for the more overt "Reagan babysitting..." picture and the like far too often.

Dude, I didn't even read your reasons for not liking him, as it doesn't even matter to this discussion. You generally seem like a reasonable guy, even if you disagree with whatever I agree on in the conversation, and maybe you were just venting because I'm sure it comes up a lot, but I did not say a word equating disliking Obama with being racist. I pointed to a specific example that I see get posted all the time. Like...all the time. Which to me, signifies that racism is still a problem. And the only reason I used that as an example was to qualify my belief that if/when Hilary runs, internet and social media will open the floodgates on some shitty, sexist memes, posts, pics and rants.

I'd hope that most people here are not racist, whatever their political beliefs are. I know many people here don't like Obama because of other threads and I don't get a racist vibe from this place (I wouldn't post here if I did because not discussing stuff with racists trumps discussing Iron Maiden).

I will say, not regarding any specific person, I have never understood how the metal community became so conservative? Seems weird to me. I feel like a lot of my punk rock friends are conservative too. Equally as weird. But it is what is...as long as people are cool, I don't give a shit what box they check on a voter ballot.

Zombie, I should have clarified that my "pissed" wasn't directed at you. Sorry if I came on strong. There just seems to be a reliance on silencing dissent by accusing the person doing the dissenting (ad hominem) instead of addressing the dissent itself. I'm not saying YOU were doing that, but it's huge in this country right now and torques me right off, but it always has. Again, going back to my strong dislike (since the NSA may be listening, I have to be polite in my wording ) for Bush, it's no different from how all manner of excuses were made for the stupid crap he was doing. You know: "It's not patriotic to disagree with the President," "Do you have a problem with 'Murica?" etc. To me, the knee-jerk that seems to come up, particularly on the left of, "Someone disagreed with the President. The President is black and therefore the only logical conclusion is that they only disagree because they are racist! In fact, they may not even know how racist they are, but they can't deny it!" That kind of anti-logic crap.

And maybe it's because I haven't had a Facebook for ages now, but I don't think I've ever seen that particular picture with Reagan, though I've seen plenty of others that are racist as hell. Similar to the question of art though, I have to wonder how much of it is genuinely racist and how much is, "I feel powerless and REALLY hate what this guy is about, so what's the nastiest blow I can strike?" There's definitely some overlap in that Venn Diagram though, and I can't defend that in the least.

As for when things became so Conservative, there's something that's crept in on me that I think a lot of people on the board could probably agree with. Think about what metal is - particularly in the sense of metalheads who came up in the 80s (who are, admittedly, older than more). It was fighting the PMRC on censorship. It was celebrating outsider culture, etc. It was saying things that were unpopular, sometimes just to say things that were unpopular. Nothing wrong with any of that, right?

This is just my take, but it seems to bear out in practice that the so-called "liberal" side of politics has taken P.C. to such an absurd extreme that you can't talk about some things anymore without being smeared in the press as some kind of horrible person. Careers are ruined over this crap, reputations destroyed, etc. all because someone's precious feelings were wounded. Again, this is a bigger subject than I want to go into on here, but I think it's undeniable that it's gotten pretty absurd in the US over the past 6 or so years equal and opposite to a lot of the religious fundamentalism that seemed to run rampant under Bush. That being the case, it's really not surprising that metal and even punk run to the more "Conservative" side of things. First, a lot of these fans are older now, working, supporting families, etc. and have pretty strong feelings about holding on to what money they make. Hence, strong NEGATIVE feelings towards the social safety net and various other government programs that keep demanding more money - even if that's just the perception. Likewise, when you have a movement pretty strong about freedom of speech, the offended be damned, it's not a shock you'd see such a strong pull away from any political force that seems to constrain speech in any capacity.

Like I said, broad strokes. I'm not trying to turn this into a political forum.

Boris2008 wrote:

One thing about all of this.

Does anyone know of any female bands that sexually or socially dominate submissive slave men as a part of their imagery?

Also it would be cool if Hilary was a dude as it would make him and Bill gay and this would most likely cause Rush Limbaugh to explode!

Not metal, but Lords of Acid always used dominatrix-y lyrical content and was female fronted. Granted, I think most of their stuff was written by a dude, but he was an odd duck, so I don't know you can use that as an example of your standard-issue straight dude projecting wish fulfillment on a female singer.

And please, Limbaugh is ALREADY stretching conservation of mass and theories of gravitational constants as far as they can go. He'll open a damn singularity if he explodes.

Whole lot of points in that post, so can't comment on them all but thanks for the clarification.

I remember in an episode of Freaks and Geeks, a quote I always thought was funny. The dad says to his newly rebellious teenage daughter and her boyfriend/friends, "If you're not a liberal when you're 20 you have no soul. If you're not a conservative when you're 30, you have no brain." Always kinda cracked me up, but I'm almost 37 and remain liberal as hell. Wife, 2 kids, mortgage and all the expenses that go along with it. Money is just not as important to me as other social issues and the social issues are what qualify me most as liberal (and the fact that I want the government to throw more money to help solve those social issues, not cut the programs to save the money).

But damn, we turned this thing upside down, so to that end:

ZombieHavoc wrote:

But damn, we turned this thing upside down, so to that end:

Nothing more metal than thread derailment and Manowar!

^ What he said.

Can we use that image with appropriate text ("NOT METAL" should work) next time someone tries to post about a "hard rock" band in the metal part of the forum?

Seriously, I can't get over the look on that guy's face.

Runicen wrote:

Seriously, I can't get over the look on that guy's face.  

That guy is Mr. Donald Sutherland. Show some respect, man!

Runicen wrote:

Seriously, I can't get over the look on that guy's face.  

Evidently, you've never seen Invasion Of The Body Snatchers. Cool flick, actually. But yeah, out of context, it's rather bizarre looking.

Wait... THAT is Donald Sutherland?


No, if I squint, I can see it.

So did we decide exactly what a leatherwolf was?

Boris2008 wrote:

So did we decide exactly what a leatherwolf was?

Sadly no.

Painkiller wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

One thing about all of this.

Does anyone know of any female bands that sexually or socially dominate submissive slave men as a part of their imagery?

Also it would be cool if Hilary was a dude as it would make him and Bill gay and this would most likely cause Rush Limbaugh to explode! 

Ah yes, forgot about Betsy!

Now Mr Clever, what's a leatherwolf? 

Boris2008 wrote:

So did we decide exactly what a leatherwolf was?

My guess it's one of those furries who doesn't like fur and prefers the feel of leather against their skin ?

007 wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

So did we decide exactly what a leatherwolf was?

My guess it's one of those furries who doesn't like fur and prefers the feel of leather against their skin ?

Boris2008 wrote:

So did we decide exactly what a leatherwolf was?

Guys. I solved this issue like 4 pages ago. Sheesh. I have to do everything around here.

A few thoughts:

I am cranking "Live to Die" at the moment and wonder why are they called "Bride" it seems odd to me.

Anyone remember how brand new cassettes from the Enigma label always smelled like Pez candy inside when you opened them and read the liner notes?

Since I just heard Dale Thompson's scream in Heroes I am wondering who has the higheast octave range in Metal?

This has been talked about here a few years back I think. but how familiar are you with your collection?

I loved the smell of new cassette booklets.

My vote's for the glossy paper smell in new box sets. Oh, so glorious!

...I mean, it probably causes cancer, but those tumors will be composed of at least 20% joy in addition to the no more than 80% cancer.