Official KISS Thread Pt II

stpatrik wrote:

The magic sense I used to have about the original lineup and Paul & Gene insisting they were friend with Peter & Ace despite their differences have been pretty much smashed to pieces by now. I've yet to read Paul's but I can only imagine especially considering his latest parade regarding Ace & Peter leading up to RnR Hall of Fame.

It's funny; Ace & Peter are talked about in very derogative manner yet Paul & Gene make Tommy & Eric dress up and play pretty much exactly like Ace & Peter, albeit with rather cold technicality rather than the loose feeling the band had in the 70's. Actually  I really liked Eric in the 90's, just let him be Eric Singer, not Catman 2. So Ace & Peter are hated yet KISS are still using the identities they came up and performing mainly songs that originated with the original band. Quite hypocritical!

Eh, I don't think Tommy and Eric are "exactly" like Ace and Paul, I see distinct differences so I wouldn't really call that "hypocritical"

Vexer6 wrote:

stpatrik wrote:

The magic sense I used to have about the original lineup and Paul & Gene insisting they were friend with Peter & Ace despite their differences have been pretty much smashed to pieces by now. I've yet to read Paul's but I can only imagine especially considering his latest parade regarding Ace & Peter leading up to RnR Hall of Fame.

It's funny; Ace & Peter are talked about in very derogative manner yet Paul & Gene make Tommy & Eric dress up and play pretty much exactly like Ace & Peter, albeit with rather cold technicality rather than the loose feeling the band had in the 70's. Actually  I really liked Eric in the 90's, just let him be Eric Singer, not Catman 2. So Ace & Peter are hated yet KISS are still using the identities they came up and performing mainly songs that originated with the original band. Quite hypocritical!

Eh, I don't think Tommy and Eric are "exactly" like Ace and Paul, I see distinct differences so I wouldn't really call that "hypocritical"

You mean to say Tommy & Eric are not directed to act and play like Ace & Peter? Eric plays nothing like he did in his original stint with KISS in which, by the way, they also performed mainly 70's material. He sounded great then so why not let him play like Eric? I haven't got a clue how Tommy would play had he not acted Ace every time he goes on stage , but I have a hard time thinking that's his actual style. Or did he dead on imitate Ace's style while in Black & Blue as well? Furthermore they also as said use the same image Ace & Peter created and they also perform mainly music that the original lineup created. So yes, downsizing Ace & Peter in the scheme of KISS' importance as people and players is hypocritical. Yes, I understand Ace & Peter were probably hell to deal with and that it's comforting for Paul & Gene to have a couple "Yes" men in the band instead but at the same time given the current presentation of KISS they could show more respect since without Ace & Peter they wouldn't be able to sell this version of KISS as it is.

stpatrik wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

stpatrik wrote:

The magic sense I used to have about the original lineup and Paul & Gene insisting they were friend with Peter & Ace despite their differences have been pretty much smashed to pieces by now. I've yet to read Paul's but I can only imagine especially considering his latest parade regarding Ace & Peter leading up to RnR Hall of Fame.

It's funny; Ace & Peter are talked about in very derogative manner yet Paul & Gene make Tommy & Eric dress up and play pretty much exactly like Ace & Peter, albeit with rather cold technicality rather than the loose feeling the band had in the 70's. Actually  I really liked Eric in the 90's, just let him be Eric Singer, not Catman 2. So Ace & Peter are hated yet KISS are still using the identities they came up and performing mainly songs that originated with the original band. Quite hypocritical!

Eh, I don't think Tommy and Eric are "exactly" like Ace and Paul, I see distinct differences so I wouldn't really call that "hypocritical"

You mean to say Tommy & Eric are not directed to act and play like Ace & Peter? Eric plays nothing like he did in his original stint with KISS in which, by the way, they also performed mainly 70's material. He sounded great then so why not let him play like Eric? I haven't got a clue how Tommy would play had he not acted Ace every time he goes on stage , but I have a hard time thinking that's his actual style. Or did he dead on imitate Ace's style while in Black & Blue as well? Furthermore they also as said use the same image Ace & Peter created and they also perform mainly music that the original lineup created. So yes, downsizing Ace & Peter in the scheme of KISS' importance as people and players is hypocritical. Yes, I understand Ace & Peter were probably hell to deal with and that it's comforting for Paul & Gene to have a couple "Yes" men in the band instead but at the same time given the current presentation of KISS they could show more respect since without Ace & Peter they wouldn't be able to sell this version of KISS as it is.

I don't really see that as "downsizing" them at all.

Interesting!

Why anybody defends alcoholic, junkie idiots that pissed away their fortunes and talents is beyond me. Ace and Peter are gone because Ace and Peter can't get the job done. Period. If they could show up on time, do the job, and go to the next city they'd still be in Kiss, but they can't. Are Paul and Gene really supposed to put up with these idiots? Why?

Witchfinder wrote:

Why anybody defends alcoholic, junkie idiots that pissed away their fortunes and talents is beyond me.  Ace and Peter are gone because Ace and Peter can't get the job done.  Period.  If they could show up on time, do the job, and go to the next city they'd still be in Kiss, but they can't.  Are Paul and Gene really supposed to put up with these idiots?  Why?  

I don't really think that many people had a problem with this Creatures/Lick it Up era. KISS had moved on at that point. It's the 'let's dress these guys up like Ace & Peter and hope no-one notices' thing that I think is funny. It's as if they are trying to continue the Reunion without having a reunion.

Boris2008 wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Why anybody defends alcoholic, junkie idiots that pissed away their fortunes and talents is beyond me.  Ace and Peter are gone because Ace and Peter can't get the job done.  Period.  If they could show up on time, do the job, and go to the next city they'd still be in Kiss, but they can't.  Are Paul and Gene really supposed to put up with these idiots?  Why?  

I don't really think that many people had a problem with this Creatures/Lick it Up era. KISS had moved on at that point. It's the 'let's dress these guys up like Ace & Peter and hope no-one notices' thing that I think is funny. It's as if they are trying to continue the Reunion without having a reunion.

Right. According to Paul, they finally decide, along with Doc McGhee that no one would care who was in the make up and that the tour had to continue. They had a costume made for Tommy because Ace was so unreliable that they needed a back up in case Ace couldn't make it. Things just naturally progressed from there. To me, Ace and Peter put the band in an untenable position and the result was other dudes in their make up.

Witchfinder wrote:

Why anybody defends alcoholic, junkie idiots that pissed away their fortunes and talents is beyond me.  Ace and Peter are gone because Ace and Peter can't get the job done.  Period.  If they could show up on time, do the job, and go to the next city they'd still be in Kiss, but they can't.  Are Paul and Gene really supposed to put up with these idiots?  Why?  

Then why keep putting up with these idiots through almost a decade? Why keep trying to persuade Ace to NOT quit the band back in ´83, even though Ace was perhaps at his worse at that point? And why get the band back together in 1996? After all, Ace & Peter were idiots who could barely play, or whatever Paul & Gene complain about. Why, why, oh my why? BTW, Ace & Peter both left on their own account in the 00's.

Boris2008 wrote:

It's the 'let's dress these guys up like Ace & Peter and hope no-one notices' thing that I think is funny..

Precisely! Paul & Gene keep going on what a pain Ace & Peter were. Fair enough, fact of the matter though that at the same time they continue to use the makeup Ace & Peter came up with and performing plenty of songs that Ace & Peter were parts of. And persuading Eric to give up much of his chops and have Tommy copycat Ace. Even though Ace & Peter apparently weren't worth much. Oh well...

Ace & Peter "left" in the 00s because they tried to hold the band up for more money and their bluffs were called. Thus they were gone. Both of them are delusional. Ace is talented, Peter can barely play at this point.

Hey, I love the original band, but Ace & Peter have no one to blame but themselves. I honestly don't care who's in makeup as that's up to Gene and Paul.

Whatever, I'm obviously not getting my point across.

stpatrik wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

Why anybody defends alcoholic, junkie idiots that pissed away their fortunes and talents is beyond me.  Ace and Peter are gone because Ace and Peter can't get the job done.  Period.  If they could show up on time, do the job, and go to the next city they'd still be in Kiss, but they can't.  Are Paul and Gene really supposed to put up with these idiots?  Why?  

Then why keep putting up with these idiots through almost a decade? Why keep trying to persuade Ace to NOT quit the band back in ´83, even though Ace was perhaps at his worse at that point? And why get the band back together in 1996? After all, Ace & Peter were idiots who could barely play, or whatever Paul & Gene complain about. Why, why, oh my why? BTW, Ace & Peter both left on their own account in the 00's.

Witchfinder wrote:

It's the 'let's dress these guys up like Ace & Peter and hope no-one notices' thing that I think is funny..

Precisely! Paul & Gene keep going on what a pain Ace & Peter were. Fair enough, fact of the matter though that at the same time they continue to use the makeup Ace & Peter came up with and performing plenty of songs that Ace & Peter were parts of. And persuading Eric to give up much of his chops and have Tommy copycat Ace. Even though Ace & Peter apparently weren't worth much. Oh well...

Erm...You are mixing your quotes up and credit both myself and WF with the opposite viewpoints to the ones that we actually hold.

Just thought I'd mention it   

Boris, sorry about that, it should be fixed now.

stpatrik wrote:

Whatever, I'm obviously not getting my point across.

Sorry man. I initially wasn't responding to your points, I was just voicing my opinions on Ace & Peter. I really can't respond to Eric and Tommy playing differently because that's outside my wheelhouse. Ah well, Kiss is a trainwreck that we can all enjoy fighting about!   

Witchfinder wrote:

Ace & Peter "left" in the 00s because they tried to hold the band up for more money and their bluffs were called.  Thus they were gone.  Both of them are delusional.  Ace is talented, Peter can barely play at this point.

Hey, I love the original band, but Ace & Peter have no one to blame but themselves.  I honestly don't care who's in makeup as that's up to Gene and Paul.

According to Paul's book, Ace was done after the reunion tour. Paul did say that Ace played better and acted better when Eric was playing the part of Peter during the end of the tour (when Peter backed out because Ace was getting paid more.)

When the Aerosmith/KISS headling tour came up, Aerosmith's management insisted that at least 3/4 of the original band be on the tour or they weren't doing it. Ace wasn't responding (or no where to be found, depending on whose book you read - Ace said he had no interest in opening for a band that used to open for them) so they made a deal with Peter, at a lower price than the previous tour. They had already planned to continue without A/P post-Farewell tour and thought it was a good way to ease the fans into two guys playing the part of Ace and Peter.

I went to that Aerosmith/KISS tour and I heard younger fans around me saying how great Ace was playing that night........ I did mention that Ace was not on stage.....

As far as Peter goes, he can't play like he used to - he played well on the Reunion tour, but much like Michael Jordan suiting up for the Washington Wizards, he was past his prime and below his championship form.

thejokeriv wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Ace & Peter "left" in the 00s because they tried to hold the band up for more money and their bluffs were called.  Thus they were gone.  Both of them are delusional.  Ace is talented, Peter can barely play at this point.

Hey, I love the original band, but Ace & Peter have no one to blame but themselves.  I honestly don't care who's in makeup as that's up to Gene and Paul.

According to Paul's book, Ace was done after the reunion tour. Paul did say that Ace played better and acted better when Eric was playing the part of Peter during the end of the tour (when Peter backed out because Ace was getting paid more.)

When the Aerosmith/KISS headling tour came up, Aerosmith's management insisted that at least 3/4 of the original band be on the tour or they weren't doing it. Ace wasn't responding (or no where to be found, depending on whose book you read - Ace said he had no interest in opening for a band that used to open for them) so they made a deal with Peter, at a lower price than the previous tour. They had already planned to continue without A/P post-Farewell tour and thought it was a good way to ease the fans into two guys playing the part of Ace and Peter.

I went to that Aerosmith/KISS tour and I heard younger fans around me saying how great Ace was playing that night........ I did mention that Ace was not on stage.....

As far as Peter goes, he can't play like he used to - he played well on the Reunion tour, but much like Michael Jordan suiting up for the Washington Wizards, he was past his prime and below his championship form.

I will have to listen more closely to the few shows from the Reunion tour. When I did originally, everything sounded great, just like the old days.

You need to read PETER's BOOK.
He admits all his faults, and he also said he got into the best shape of his life and put up with a lot of crap, after they made him audition and they tested him hard to see how fit he was.
If you were him, hearing daily insults from Paul or Gene onstage to the fans, by pretending you kept playing the wrong beat / tempo. Play faster. No, Play it slower. No, no, no., etc
Peter put up with it all, and honored his tour contract not only for the money, but for his daughter who could finally see what it was like for him to got to work and see all the excited fans.

KISS extended the reunion tour beyond the contracted dates.
If you were Peter, and learned you weren't getting paid fairly, but was working the hardest and in pain, would you want to continue to work there with these guys?
The goal he set was accomplished. To give himself, his family, and the fans, the very best performance possible and say goodbye in a positive and memorable way.

I don't recognize whatever this modern-day band called KISS is today with fake Ace and fake Peter.
It's a joke. They couldn't come up with new personas / characters, like they did with Vinnie Vincent ("The Wiz") for the 2 new members, and give the newer / younger fans something of their very own, that their parents didn't have?
This like the Mark Walhberg movie "Rock Star" becoming reality, where fans join their favourite band and pretend to be the old members they replaced.
The ultimate tribute band.  

At the end of the day, Ace's solo stuff is better than anything KISS has put out since...a very long time.

So we get Ace stuff (from time to time) and also KISS records. So it's all for the best. Except, financially, for Ace, I suppose.

I'm 1/4 through Paul's book. His childhood, his fears, his disability, etc. are all things I knew little to nothing about. It's an interesting read so far.

Nearly finished reading Paul's book. The chapter on Eric Carr's death was gut wrenching, especially the ending when Paul admits that he was wrong in not allowing Eric his part in "Revenge" and on the "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" single.

ultmetal wrote:

Nearly finished reading Paul's book. The chapter on Eric Carr's death was gut wrenching, especially the ending when Paul admits that he was wrong in not allowing Eric his part in "Revenge" and on the "God Gave Rock and Roll To You" single.

I thought that part was sweet, where Paul basically apologizes for that. I've heard various spins over the years about how Gene & Paul treated Eric towards the end but I had never heard that Eric and his family shut out Gene & Paul. It was a tough situation for everyone to be in and I can understand both arguments when it comes to Eric's participation. It was nice of Paul to say he made the wrong choice though. You usually don't hear Gene & Paul admit that they were wrong about something, especially when it comes to how they deal with people.

Good book overall, but I was slightly bothered by the Ace & Peter bashing and the fact that he doesn't address 'Live to Win'.

I still haven't seen any Rock N Roll Hall of fame clips,
but this popped up yesterday when I was on YouTube.

Eddie Trunk recaps the Kiss Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction 4.14.2014.
Published on Apr 19, 2014

This is great news -- Paul plans to do another solo album:

http://classicrock.teamrock.com/news/2014-05-19/stanley-set-to-go-solo-again

Quote :

Kiss icon Paul Stanley says he wants to record a third solo album – his first since 2006's Live To Win.

And he says the project would be much more like his first – 1978's Paul Stanley.

He tells Nashville Scene: “The next one I guarantee will be much more guitar-driven. Live To Win was really me wanting to push the envelope of what people wouldn’t expect from me. But my next one would hearken back way more to the first, I’m sure.”

It comes shortly after Stanley told member of San Francisco's Jewish Community Centre that some of Kiss' records were essentially solo albums anyway. He said: "My second solo album was really like a project for me to get away from what I do with Kiss, because some of the Kiss albums have been, basically, almost solo albums.

"Live To Win was me trying to really push the boundaries. But if I was to do another one, and I certainly plan on it, it would be a guitar through a Marshall amplifier.”

I really loved Live To Win; there are some great songs on that album. The tour was also really fun. It was great to hear a bunch of songs KISS never does live anymore.

I hope it's better than "Live to Win" - I really wanted to like that one but it did nothin' for me...

I like 'Live to Win' a lot. Good modern rock/pop, I thought. If he wants to do something closer to his first solo album, I'm good with that as well.

Fat Freddy wrote:

I hope it's better than "Live to Win" - I really wanted to like that one but it did nothin' for me...

Ditto. I remember getting a free promo copy. It had more value on ebay than it did in my collection.