Tourniquet - Antiseptic Bloodbath

Rami Airola wrote:

Based on what Ted and Luke have already told, I can see it meaning something about Christians willfully eating the body of Christ as a sacramental ritual

So it's anti-Catholic Church. Then I have an issue with it.

thejokeriv wrote:

Rami Airola wrote:

Based on what Ted and Luke have already told, I can see it meaning something about Christians willfully eating the body of Christ as a sacramental ritual

So it's anti-Catholic Church. Then I have an issue with it.

Oh, no, I didn't mean that and I'm quite sure they don't mean that either.

Protestants do these rituals too. Or at least Lutherans (I am one) do. I don't know about the others. It isn't about the sacrament or about eating meat. It's about what we might do and not do while wanting to feed ourselves both spiritually and physically. Eating meat isn't wrong. Eating figurative Christ's flesh as a sacrament isn't wrong either. But there are countless of people who don't want to see the facts behind both of those foods. Wanting to eat physically and spiritually isn't wrong, but horribly abusing things while feeding ourselves might be wrong.

That's what I get from the cover and the explanations.





I see the fact that Christ is still on the cross in the cover art as a reminder of the fact that it isn't just about the happy resurrection but also about real physical pain too.

To say it boldly, how dare I try to make me feel better by feeding myself spiritually if I want to forget the actual torment that had to happen for that cleansing, and how dare I feed myself physically if I want to close my eyes from the unnecessary abuse animals sometimes get.

I can say that I'm quilty especially to that physical feeding part. I'm quite poor, yet I'm still overweight by all the pizzas and greasy stuff I eat, and whenever I hear or see things about the horrible treatment of animals, I wish to turn my head away, or just make it a joke, or act like it doesn't matter. I understand that animals have to die for me to get food, and that's ok. But I'm not ok with some of the horrible things I've seen. Some butchers don't care at all how they are doing their jobs, and whenever I'm eating meat, I understand that the animal had to die but don't wish to know if the animal was abused. And after that I can go to the church and eat the body of Christ to make me feel better in my own eyes understanding that Christ had to die but not giving too much of thought to the actual horrors that happened.



I can't say this any better, so if it came up as not understandable or illogical, I'm sorry and I will leave the subject of the cover art meanings alone

thejokeriv wrote:

Rami Airola wrote:

Based on what Ted and Luke have already told, I can see it meaning something about Christians willfully eating the body of Christ as a sacramental ritual

So it's anti-Catholic Church. Then I have an issue with it.

Leo, I don't know what they have in mind, but if they think along the lines of what Rami is suggesting, they are willfully ignorant of Church history and the Eucharist: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/fathers.htm

Back to the topic at hand: I hate the cover art, and I actually thought about Cattle Decapitation as well. I really like Travis Smith and his work, but this one is just not working. Like Rex, I don't know what to make of it, maybe that's why I hate it. When the last TQT album came out in '03, I was a 23 year old kid and excited for this music and would have pre-ordered it without even listening to a note. The 32 year old man in me just doesn't care now.

GrandNational wrote:

Leo, I don't know what they have in mind, but if they think along the lines of what Rami is suggesting, they are willfully ignorant of Church history and the Eucharist: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/fathers.htm

What does the church history has got to do with this? Ted quite clearly has said the cover is about today's world. Quite certainly people in the past have had a somewhat different approach to Christ as a sacrifice, back in the day when death was around all the time. Compared to today, we necessarily haven't seen a real dead person at all through our lives, except on the internet perhaps.

And what comes to animals as a sacrifice, there is again a difference between killing an animal for a sacrifice or for food and killing an animal with added torture.

The point is that the society seems to be "cleaning" the image of dying Jesus and dying animals.
I guess Mel Gibson tried to do something about it with The Passion of the Christ



Oh well, this starts to look like I'm on a some sort of a crusade here and preaching things
I'm just wondering how people are seeing the picture and the explanations being against so many different things. Well, this seems to be a big problem in religions in general. No wonder there are so many different religions and denominations and fights








Back to the album..
I hope they'll give us some samples to listen soon.

GrandNational wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Rami Airola wrote:

Based on what Ted and Luke have already told, I can see it meaning something about Christians willfully eating the body of Christ as a sacramental ritual

So it's anti-Catholic Church. Then I have an issue with it.

Leo, I don't know what they have in mind, but if they think along the lines of what Rami is suggesting, they are willfully ignorant of Church history and the Eucharist: http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/father/fathers.htm

Thanks - unfortunately the vast majority of the Protestant Evangelical world lacks a understanding of Church history other than Protestantism "broke off from the Roman Catholic Church" while not understanding the other churches (Eastern Orthodox Churches, Oriental Orthodox and the Churches of the East). When Luke posted here before, he showed his complete and utter lack of knowledge of church history.

Honestly, if the album is good then great. A lack of understanding of Church history or bad interpretations of the Bible don;t keep me from liking an album. If it did, I wouldn't own any Christian Metal!

James B. wrote:

Anyways, if you even subliminaly bad mouth Tourniquet. Lots of new posters come out of the woodwork and set you straight on the error of your ways and go bible scholar on your butt.

that is the truth.

exact33 wrote:

James B. wrote:

Anyways, if you even subliminaly bad mouth Tourniquet. Lots of new posters come out of the woodwork and set you straight on the error of your ways and go bible scholar on your butt.

that is the truth.

Yes, that point has been proven over and over on HoM

I'm not overly keen on the cover, mainly because it's so open to misinterpretation. I've been a big Tourniquet fan over the years, however, this cover looks like it's setting out to cause controversy. I don't have an issue with blood on an album cover, or the crufixion on a cover, or dead animals either, but there's something about the combination of them on one cover that doesn't connect with me, either aesthetically or philosophically.

thejokeriv wrote:

A lack of understanding of Church history or bad interpretations of the Bible don;t keep me from liking an album. If it did, I wouldn't own any Christian Metal!

We're in the same boat here

the cover & title are great. the music probably won't be as extreme unfortunately. i'll still give it a chance though.

Gruesome cover! I enjoy the first three albums plus Collected Works the most. Will be interestting to see if I enjoy the upcoming release as much as those early albums.

I hope they release a sample song soon.

Rabid fanboys will PRAISE this album no matter what (Believer's last album, anyone? )

The complete vagueness of the artwork makes me wanna throw - up.....Xtian Metal ?

EmoElmo wrote:

Rabid fanboys will PRAISE this album no matter what (Believer's last album, anyone? )

The complete vagueness of the artwork makes me wanna throw - up.....Xtian Metal ?

Seemed to me like most of the people who praised Transhuman were more people who had hardly heard of Believer. There are very few fans of the old Believer I've seen other than myself who actually enjoy it for the music and not simply because they'll buy anything the band puts out.
/end rant

If this were an album cover from any non-Christian band nobody would give it a second thought. But because it's a "Christian" band, it simply must have some cerebral message related to Christ as "we" see it and THEN it's suddenly open to all kinds of dissection and interpretation even after the band members spell it out.

It's just album art...

Whenever a member of Tournequet speaks, I feel like I am in one of those puzzle books you get in the check-out aisle. It's seems like some anagram with cryptic overtones. I guess it goes back to me having to get out a dictionary whenever they put out a new album.

heyyyy now 'Transhuman' is absolutely killer, in concept and music. Believer has always been a band that tries to see what metal can do and where it can go and what it is capable of expressing, which is very important. Not to derail the thread or anything.

Let me spell it out even further for those who don't get it:

Ted wrote:

"The title track, ANTISEPTIC BLOODBATH, speaks of the way our society prefers to sanitize brutality. We can have our tidy Christian faith, or continue with no faith at all, as long as we don't consider the painful bloody price that was paid for us.

He is saying we like our saviors "pink and fluffy"...not "cold and brutal". We tend to choose to not think about how Jesus was brutally tortured and murdered. We use the word "sacrifice" like He simply laid down and went to sleep when, in fact, he was brutally shredded, beaten, and murdered...there was screaming, there was pain, there was blood...but we generally don't want to talk about that.

Ted wrote:

We use animals for our food, profit, and amusement, but would rather not know about the needless, often systematic suffering that is inflicted on them by a callous and greedy humanity.

Most of us will chow down on a nice steak or piece of chicken without thinking about how cows, chickens, pigs, etc are systematically bred simply to be slaughtered, let alone the inhumane, disgusting conditions under which many of them are bred/raised...we just want fries with that. Nobody wants to think about how elephants and tigers are treated as long as we can see them jump through hoops of fire or balance a ball with their trunk.

Ted wrote:

"Don't upset my comfort zone - brutal truth, leave me alone". The great news is that we have the ability to choose. This album encourages us to make good and humane choices in our daily lives that reflect these images."

We tend to use a mental "antiseptic" to wipe away the ugly, "bloodbath" reality of the things we ultimately take for granted (anything from salvation to a steak).

Luke wrote:

"No one's tying animal cruelty to the crucifixion. We need Christ, but we generally don't want to engage the brutal aspects of the price paid for our redemption. We all need to eat, but we generally ignore the way our food is raised and processed. Two separate things that have parallels."

Plain English...easy to understand.

Nobody is saying Jesus is a steak.

Nobody is saying a cow died for your sins.

Nobody is saying "don't eat meat".

Nobody is saying eating a steak is the same as taking communion.

Nobody is saying ANYTHING with that art other than what Ted and Luke PLAINLY spelled out. It's allegory...deal with it.

Besides, "Antiseptic Bloodbath" sounds Metal!

I don't know, I think you may be committing sacrilege there my friend. A true Christian would argue that Jesus IS a steak. A big, lean, juicy, bloody, ripped, organic steak ready to pump you up with prophetic proteins. Indeed, how can ye exalt the qualities of beef and yet eschew your Savior? You cannot serve two masters (God and meat). From now on, Jesus = steak.

Quote :

Jesus is a steak

I want that as the album title.

I'll probably skip this album though. Tourniquet has been kinda hit-or-miss with me and with more strikes in the miss collum, I've lost interest. Lotsa other bands I rather spend my money on.

Funny also how cows are separated from us, set out to pasture, slaughtered, bled, milked when we are thirsty......and yet, they comply and let it happen because they love us. I guess it's just a coincidence. A convenient coincidence for those in the body who deny the Bovine.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Plain English...easy to understand.

Nobody is saying Jesus is a steak.

Nobody is saying a cow died for your sins.

Nobody is saying "don't eat meat".

Nobody is saying eating a steak is the same as taking communion.

Nobody is saying ANYTHING with that art other than what Ted and Luke PLAINLY spelled out. It's allegory...deal with it.

Besides, "Antiseptic Bloodbath" sounds Metal!

guess you missed the sarcasm in my post(s)

They have a career spanning M.O of using medical and psychilogical terms as allegory for spiritual connotations. So why would any of this current trip be a surprise to anybody ? If you have to explain anything......well that defeats the purpose. My initial comments were also just observation and not complaint, judgement, or whatever else can be misinterpreted. In the end, the music has to make the real statement. Being they went about doing this whole thing in a "certain" manner, they have a different accountability to those that "blessed" them with assistance in various from(s). My biggest gripe with most of what they do, which is evident in the way (most) band members come across when communicating with others is that they seem to put themselves above everyone in the aspect that they are way smarter than you are.....and.......when they explain something to you, well they are doing you a favor cause you wouldn't get it otherwise. I just wish they'd put half as much effort in writing good music as they do contriving all these clever innuendo and allegorical endeavors that IMHO come across as being mere gimmick. I may be wrong (happens alot)

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Plain English...easy to understand.

Nobody is saying Jesus is a steak.

Nobody is saying a cow died for your sins.

Nobody is saying "don't eat meat".

Nobody is saying eating a steak is the same as taking communion.

Nobody is saying ANYTHING with that art other than what Ted and Luke PLAINLY spelled out. It's allegory...deal with it.

Besides, "Antiseptic Bloodbath" sounds Metal!

guess you missed the sarcasm in my post(s)

They have a career spanning M.O of using medical and psychilogical terms as allegory for spiritual connotations. So why would any of this current trip be a surprise to anybody ? If you have to explain anything......well that defeats the purpose. My initial comments were also just observation and not complaint, judgement, or whatever else can be misinterpreted. In the end, the music has to make the real statement. Being they went about doing this whole thing in a "certain" manner, they have a different accountability to those that "blessed" them with assistance in various from(s). My biggest gripe with most of what they do, which is evident in the way (most) band members come across when communicating with others is that they seem to put themselves above everyone in the aspect that they are way smarter than you are.....and.......when they explain something to you, well they are doing you a favor cause you wouldn't get it otherwise. I just wish they'd put half as much effort in writing good music as they do contriving all these clever innuendo and allegorical endeavors that IMHO come across as being mere gimmick. I may be wrong (happens alot)

I wasn't talking to "you" specifically...I was making a general statement based on comments I have seen from multiple people.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Plain English...easy to understand.

Nobody is saying Jesus is a steak.

Nobody is saying a cow died for your sins.

Nobody is saying "don't eat meat".

Nobody is saying eating a steak is the same as taking communion.

Nobody is saying ANYTHING with that art other than what Ted and Luke PLAINLY spelled out. It's allegory...deal with it.

Besides, "Antiseptic Bloodbath" sounds Metal!

guess you missed the sarcasm in my post(s)

They have a career spanning M.O of using medical and psychilogical terms as allegory for spiritual connotations. So why would any of this current trip be a surprise to anybody ? If you have to explain anything......well that defeats the purpose. My initial comments were also just observation and not complaint, judgement, or whatever else can be misinterpreted. In the end, the music has to make the real statement. Being they went about doing this whole thing in a "certain" manner, they have a different accountability to those that "blessed" them with assistance in various from(s). My biggest gripe with most of what they do, which is evident in the way (most) band members come across when communicating with others is that they seem to put themselves above everyone in the aspect that they are way smarter than you are.....and.......when they explain something to you, well they are doing you a favor cause you wouldn't get it otherwise. I just wish they'd put half as much effort in writing good music as they do contriving all these clever innuendo and allegorical endeavors that IMHO come across as being mere gimmick. I may be wrong (happens alot)

I wasn't talking to "you" specifically...I was making a general statement based on comments I have seen from multiple people.

I figured as much...seems today is a day I'm diggin on listening to myself type