Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta

MetalGuy71 wrote:

These last coupla of days discussing Great White have certainly been more interesting to me than actually listening to Great White. They've pretty much slipped off my playlist since Psycho Motel.

Same here, the last Great White I actually listened to was 'Twice Shy' maybe I will spin it tonight

I was a big fan back in their heyday. Saw them live at least twice, maybe 3 times. Then, I dunno, I just sorta forgot about them. My old roommate played them to death. Maybe that had something to do with it.

Witchfinder wrote:

As a lawyer, what stands out to me in those excerpts is what's NOT said. Nowhere (other than when talking about the 2008 reunion) is it mentioned who owns the Great White name. My guess would be that Jack does and the others have very little legal footing because if they owned the name or the rights, they would state that and ask for summary judgment. You don't see that here. Basically, you have a litany of woes that mean absolutely nothing legally. Jack can shoot heroin into his face all day long and he still owns the name and there's nothing that Lardie, Kendall, et al... can do about it. I could be wrong but from the excerpts, that's how I read it.

But if it is true that his real imput was extremely low, couldn't they try to take the name rights away from him because of this?

tul wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

As a lawyer, what stands out to me in those excerpts is what's NOT said. Nowhere (other than when talking about the 2008 reunion) is it mentioned who owns the Great White name. My guess would be that Jack does and the others have very little legal footing because if they owned the name or the rights, they would state that and ask for summary judgment. You don't see that here. Basically, you have a litany of woes that mean absolutely nothing legally. Jack can shoot heroin into his face all day long and he still owns the name and there's nothing that Lardie, Kendall, et al... can do about it. I could be wrong but from the excerpts, that's how I read it.

But if it is true that his real imput was extremely low, couldn't they try to take the name rights away from him because of this?

I dont see how they could, even if Russell did nothing. The argument is over who owns the name, not who deserves to own the name. Not contributing to the band is no reason to say he should be stripped of ownership.

This thread got me to pull out my "Very Best of Great White" CD today for the first time in who knows how long. Curiosity about the band's claim that "Russell contributed very little to the songwriting" made me glance over the credits on this thing...and for whatever it's worth, Jack Russell only is credited on 4 out of the 10 songs on the disc.

Of course, this is only one compilation disc (and an old one at that) so obviously I'm not saying this backs up the band's cries of "Jack didn't do nuthin'," I just thought it was interesting.

...on the other hand, three of the remaining tracks are cover songs (one of which -- "Once Bitten Twice Shy" -- became their biggest hit, of course) so I guess that wouldn't do much to back up the other band members' assertions that they were doin' all the work, either. So nevermind, I guess.

A lot of singers contribute little to a band's songwriting, but are still more important than those that write all the songs. Ozzy has never written a song in his life, but he's always been more famous than any of his band members. The same can be said about Sebastian Bach.

Before we began discussing all this stuff, how many of you could have named any band member other than Jack Russell?

Eyesore wrote:

Before we began discussing all this stuff, how many of you could have named any band member other than Jack Russell?

Off the top of my head...Mark Kendall, Michael Lardie, and Audie Desbrow. Oh, and Ty Longley (the guy who died in the Station nightclub fire).

tul wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

As a lawyer, what stands out to me in those excerpts is what's NOT said. Nowhere (other than when talking about the 2008 reunion) is it mentioned who owns the Great White name. My guess would be that Jack does and the others have very little legal footing because if they owned the name or the rights, they would state that and ask for summary judgment. You don't see that here. Basically, you have a litany of woes that mean absolutely nothing legally. Jack can shoot heroin into his face all day long and he still owns the name and there's nothing that Lardie, Kendall, et al... can do about it. I could be wrong but from the excerpts, that's how I read it.

But if it is true that his real imput was extremely low, couldn't they try to take the name rights away from him because of this?

No. If Jack owns the name, he owns the name outright. He could choose to never use the name again and there could never be another Great White without his blessing. His "input" has zero bearing on ownership.

Eyesore wrote:

Ozzy has never written a song in his life, but he's always been more famous than any of his band members.

Per Geezer, Ozzy wrote the song "Who Are You" on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Ozzy was in the studio messing around with a synthesizer and came up with the riff, Geezer helped him finish it. As far as I know that's the only "musical" contribution he made to the band. He occasionally helped out with lyrics, but most of those were also written by Geezer.

S.D. wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Ozzy has never written a song in his life, but he's always been more famous than any of his band members.

Per Geezer, Ozzy wrote the song "Who Are You" on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Ozzy was in the studio messing around with a synthesizer and came up with the riff, Geezer helped him finish it. As far as I know that's the only "musical" contribution he made to the band. He occasionally helped out with lyrics, but most of those were also written by Geezer.

Okay, so Ozzy accidentally wrote a riff to one song.

I could name one, other Jack Russell, that is Mark Kendall, and he stood out to me because he had a guitar that looked like a shark

Witchfinder wrote:

tul wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

As a lawyer, what stands out to me in those excerpts is what's NOT said. Nowhere (other than when talking about the 2008 reunion) is it mentioned who owns the Great White name. My guess would be that Jack does and the others have very little legal footing because if they owned the name or the rights, they would state that and ask for summary judgment. You don't see that here. Basically, you have a litany of woes that mean absolutely nothing legally. Jack can shoot heroin into his face all day long and he still owns the name and there's nothing that Lardie, Kendall, et al... can do about it. I could be wrong but from the excerpts, that's how I read it.

But if it is true that his real imput was extremely low, couldn't they try to take the name rights away from him because of this?

No. If Jack owns the name, he owns the name outright. He could choose to never use the name again and there could never be another Great White without his blessing. His "input" has zero bearing on ownership.

This is what it will come down to...who has the piece of paper with their name on it stating them as the owner of the name.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

tul wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

As a lawyer, what stands out to me in those excerpts is what's NOT said. Nowhere (other than when talking about the 2008 reunion) is it mentioned who owns the Great White name. My guess would be that Jack does and the others have very little legal footing because if they owned the name or the rights, they would state that and ask for summary judgment. You don't see that here. Basically, you have a litany of woes that mean absolutely nothing legally. Jack can shoot heroin into his face all day long and he still owns the name and there's nothing that Lardie, Kendall, et al... can do about it. I could be wrong but from the excerpts, that's how I read it.

But if it is true that his real imput was extremely low, couldn't they try to take the name rights away from him because of this?

No. If Jack owns the name, he owns the name outright. He could choose to never use the name again and there could never be another Great White without his blessing. His "input" has zero bearing on ownership.

This is what it will come down to...who has the piece of paper with their name on it stating them as the owner of the name.

Yep!!

uh oh!!! Breaking news, it turns out that neither Kendall or Russell own the rights to the name Great White, recent documents show the name Great White is owned by this man:

Eyesore wrote:

Before we began discussing all this stuff, how many of you could have named any band member other than Jack Russell?

manny wrote:

uh oh!!! Breaking news, it turns out that neither Kendall or Russell own the rights to the name Great White, recent documents show the name Great White is owned by this man:

This man is also known as the Great White:



Maybe someone should sue WWE.

Eyesore wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Ozzy has never written a song in his life, but he's always been more famous than any of his band members.

Per Geezer, Ozzy wrote the song "Who Are You" on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Ozzy was in the studio messing around with a synthesizer and came up with the riff, Geezer helped him finish it. As far as I know that's the only "musical" contribution he made to the band. He occasionally helped out with lyrics, but most of those were also written by Geezer.

Okay, so Ozzy accidentally wrote a riff to one song.

Ozzy wrote the lyrics to 'Black Sabbath' (Geezer mentions this in the 'Classic Rock Albums: Paranoid' documentary), 'Who Are You?', 'Am I Going Insane' and wrote a lot of the lyrics to 'The Writ'.

Lyrics are not songs.

To me, for what it's worth....singing/coming up with a vocal melody is more important than writing words on a napkin or notebok paper.

Witchfinder wrote:

tul wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

As a lawyer, what stands out to me in those excerpts is what's NOT said. Nowhere (other than when talking about the 2008 reunion) is it mentioned who owns the Great White name. My guess would be that Jack does and the others have very little legal footing because if they owned the name or the rights, they would state that and ask for summary judgment. You don't see that here. Basically, you have a litany of woes that mean absolutely nothing legally. Jack can shoot heroin into his face all day long and he still owns the name and there's nothing that Lardie, Kendall, et al... can do about it. I could be wrong but from the excerpts, that's how I read it.

But if it is true that his real imput was extremely low, couldn't they try to take the name rights away from him because of this?

No. If Jack owns the name, he owns the name outright. He could choose to never use the name again and there could never be another Great White without his blessing. His "input" has zero bearing on ownership.

yep. Its similar to record companies who own rights to music. They can choose to release stuff or not but they still retain ownership.

Eyesore wrote:

Lyrics are not songs.

Vocals on their own can be songs, and vocal melodies and lyrics are required in order to sing something. So I'm not sure why it don't count as song-writing? That's like saying Bill Ward didn't write anything.

Anyway, I just assumed you guys were talking about song lyrics when S.D mentioned Ozzy writing 'Who Are You?', which is why I mentioned those other songs.

MEGATRON wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Lyrics are not songs.

Vocals on their own can be songs, and vocal melodies and lyrics are required in order to sing something. So I'm not sure why it don't count as song-writing? That's like saying Bill Ward didn't write anything.

Anyway, I just assumed you guys were talking about song lyrics when S.D mentioned Ozzy writing 'Who Are You?', which is why I mentioned those other songs.

Lyrics are words, not vocals. It's much easier to write words than to take those words are put them to music or melodies. If lyrics are songs, I've written thousands of songs in my life.

Oh, and guess what leaked?

Just gave it a listen. First three tracks are excellent blues-rock tracks, then it seems to dip in quality. More mellow and mid-tempo tracks than rockers. Except for a few moments, musically, it doesn't really come off like a Great White album. Jack's voice is clearly the soul of the band, as it is with a lot of bands.

Either way, solid album.

Eyesore wrote:

MEGATRON wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Lyrics are not songs.

Vocals on their own can be songs, and vocal melodies and lyrics are required in order to sing something. So I'm not sure why it don't count as song-writing? That's like saying Bill Ward didn't write anything.

Anyway, I just assumed you guys were talking about song lyrics when S.D mentioned Ozzy writing 'Who Are You?', which is why I mentioned those other songs.

Lyrics are words, not vocals. It's much easier to write words than to take those words are put them to music or melodies. If lyrics are songs, I've written thousands of songs in my life.

Lyrics are indeed artistic contribution. They help to make the song what it is. If you sing them with no music, technically that's a song.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

MEGATRON wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Lyrics are not songs.

Vocals on their own can be songs, and vocal melodies and lyrics are required in order to sing something. So I'm not sure why it don't count as song-writing? That's like saying Bill Ward didn't write anything.

Anyway, I just assumed you guys were talking about song lyrics when S.D mentioned Ozzy writing 'Who Are You?', which is why I mentioned those other songs.

Lyrics are words, not vocals. It's much easier to write words than to take those words are put them to music or melodies. If lyrics are songs, I've written thousands of songs in my life.

Lyrics are indeed artistic contribution. They help to make the song what it is. If you sing them with no music, technically that's a song.

100% agree, sometimes a great song can became a so so song if they have crap lyrics. Alot of artist I love such as Bob Dylan, Lou Reed (yes Lou Reed!!!), Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, just name a few, the main appeal to them IMO are the strength of their lyrics ( the music is good too IMO)