11/11/11 - Black Sabbath

MetalGuy71 wrote:

manny wrote:

I am not sure you can completely blame Sharon, Tony Iommi's is nobody's puppet, and if he went along with it, then he is as much to blame as Sharon.

As much as I'd love, LOVE, to blame Sharon in all this mess, they're all to blame. Even Geezer and Ozzy to some extent. Until more details emerge, they should all be held accountable for this disappointing chain of events.

But I can see her as the one who got into the heads of the others and sparked the greed. They know it's not right to give their friend and bandmate a unequal share.

Troublezone wrote:

Would they have continued without Geezer?

Hmmm, hard to say, but I'd venture to say yes, for the same reason I said with Bill.

If they've already committed to record and tour, I'd guess that they'd push forward to honor those contracts. Legal obligations and red tape outweigh band loyalty it seems.

Now if Bill and Geezer were to bail out, that could change things significantly. They could get into legal issues if they've signed to perform as Black Sabbath with all original members and only 2 show up. Heck, they could have that problem now with Bill out. Promoters selling this as a reunion could come back and sue for breach of contract and all that legal mumbo-jumbo.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Would they have continued without Geezer?

Hmmm, hard to say, but I'd venture to say yes, for the same reason I said with Bill.

If they've already committed to record and tour, I'd guess that they'd push forward to honor those contracts. Legal obligations and red tape outweigh band loyalty it seems.

Now if Bill and Geezer were to bail out, that could change things significantly. They could get into legal issues if they've signed to perform as Black Sabbath with all original members and only 2 show up. Heck, they could have that problem now with Bill out. Promoters selling this as a reunion could come back and sue for breach of contract and all that legal mumbo-jumbo.

They could've went forward giving all members equal share... Currently, it's not "the original lineup" as advertised. Isn't that a contractual problem?

No one really knows who is to blame until we see the details of the contracts they were all asked to sign.

Blame doesn't even matter at this point...what's done is done.

It's encouraging though that Sabbath claims "the door is always open"...we'll see. Summer is still a ways off...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Blame doesn't even matter at this point...what's done is done.

It's encouraging though that Sabbath claims "the door is always open"...we'll see. Summer is still a ways off...

They are probably hoping he does the tour later on (where the big bucks are). I doubt they care if he's involved with the studio work. But I have a feeling that Bill will decline the tour because he didn't do the recording. It's just a big mess now...

Temple of Blood wrote:

No one really knows who is to blame until we see the details of the contracts they were all asked to sign.

That's true... but there's always the usual suspects.

Troublezone wrote:

That's true... but there's always the usual suspects.

I don't see how someone can possibly blame Sharon without also blaming Geezer and Tony ... they are going along with this whole thing and if they really had integrity they would just split all the money 4 ways and enjoy their hefty payday.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

That's true... but there's always the usual suspects.

I don't see how someone can possibly blame Sharon without also blaming Geezer and Tony ... they are going along with this whole thing and if they really had integrity they would just split all the money 4 ways and enjoy their hefty payday.

Especially after Ozzy's sob story about it when he sued Tony over the name...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

That's true... but there's always the usual suspects.

I don't see how someone can possibly blame Sharon without also blaming Geezer and Tony ... they are going along with this whole thing and if they really had integrity they would just split all the money 4 ways and enjoy their hefty payday.

Especially after Ozzy's sob story about it when he sued Tony over the name...

Which was even more bullsh!t considering that Tony Iommi had been recording under the Black Sabbath name since 1980, then since 1986 without a single original member in the line up beside himself of course,

manny wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

That's true... but there's always the usual suspects.

I don't see how someone can possibly blame Sharon without also blaming Geezer and Tony ... they are going along with this whole thing and if they really had integrity they would just split all the money 4 ways and enjoy their hefty payday.

Especially after Ozzy's sob story about it when he sued Tony over the name...

Which was even more bullsh!t considering that Tony Iommi had been recording under the Black Sabbath name since 1980, then since 1986 without a single original member in the line up beside himself of course,

Which begs the question, should ANYONE other than Tony have a fair share?

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

That's true... but there's always the usual suspects.

I don't see how someone can possibly blame Sharon without also blaming Geezer and Tony ... they are going along with this whole thing and if they really had integrity they would just split all the money 4 ways and enjoy their hefty payday.

Especially after Ozzy's sob story about it when he sued Tony over the name...

Which was even more bullsh!t considering that Tony Iommi had been recording under the Black Sabbath name since 1980, then since 1986 without a single original member in the line up beside himself of course,

Which begs the question, should ANYONE other than Tony have a fair share?

well yes, because as much as I love the Tony Martin/Glenn Hughes/and Ian Gillan era, that tour would not generate the buzz or interest of the original line up.

Both sides are playing hardball. I'm sure a deal will be reached before summer.

If not, oh well, do the tour with whoever on drums, end the band and hopefully Geezer & Tony will work together on a new project.

Sh!t

The tour is already pretty much sold out (it was impossible for me to get a ticket here in Norway). So I guess it doesn't matter to them who is playing drums.

Geezer says....

Tweeted by Geezer several hours ago:

"Black Sabbath without Bill Ward , is not Black Sabbath"

"Friends I will like to ask you who can help me with this tag to convince Bill Ward that his return is very significant for all"

S.D. wrote:

Geezer says....

Tweeted by Geezer several hours ago:

"Black Sabbath without Bill Ward , is not Black Sabbath"

"Friends I will like to ask you who can help me with this tag to convince Bill Ward that his return is very significant for all"

Well, I'm glad somebody in the band has their priorities straight.

I can't believe all the things that are going on with this tour. It is sad when money and politics get in the way of artistic creation. I am one of those Business Minded people, but art is still important. I am sure they have to, at one point or another, sit back and say... "We were 4 guys just hanging out in a studio writing music."

I mean Friends to enemies to politics to friends... for money.

I already saw BS three times in my life. Once with RJD and the other two with Ozzy. It's still nice to see them, but I wonder what the tickets are going to cost?

On a side note... Who here even liked any new music from BS? Is this a big blow to what true fans of BS really want? Do we want new music from them? Has their writing been that great over the years?

It's a sad state of affairs when Bill Ward is being treated as a disposable session musician. I have a feeling, though I could be wrong, that because they've done shows without him before it's now a matter of "Well, if we really wanted to we could go ahead without you and people would still buy this whole 'reunion' thing, so you'll settle for less and do as you're told."

Quote :

Has their writing been that great over the years?

Yes, it has.

S.D. wrote:

Geezer says....

Tweeted by Geezer several hours ago:

"Black Sabbath without Bill Ward , is not Black Sabbath"

"Friends I will like to ask you who can help me with this tag to convince Bill Ward that his return is very significant for all"

Apparently it's a fake account.

MEGATRON wrote:

Apparently it's a fake account.

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me either.

Oh well, I guess we'll see what happens as things progress.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Quote :

Has their writing been that great over the years?

Yes, it has.

Okay, I can see that. Very cool!

manny wrote:

Last time Iommi caved and let Ozzy (meaning Sharon) any say in terms of creativity we had those two sub standard songs (by Sabbath standards) that were tacked on at Reunion disc.

"Psycho Man" sounds like it is off a solo Ozzy LP and not Sabbath!
"Selling My Soul" was good, but lacking.
I was hoping to hear a studio version of "Scary Dreams" as it also sounded unfinished when they played it live.
Don't care as much anymore.
I will not buy a new album unless all 4 are on the album, and they just screwed themselves out of 2 tickets I was going to buy.

We can blame Sharon for the majority of the problem, because for example the Ozzy 30th Anniversary set last year was a cash grab.

Pretty sure this is the reason why they finally put out the dvd with Randy - http://www.tmz.com/2011/04/08/ozzy-osbourne-sharon-osbourne-federal-tax-lien-delinquent-irs-unpaid-taxes-court-state-of-california/

She left out some important songs from the original band, and refused to deal with Bob Daisley to include the early studio/rehearsal tapes he alone owns.

As much as I love/respect the music, it is very hard to like Ozzy anymore. I understand it's a manager's job to make money...I got no problem with him/her making money...it's just the perceived underhandedness of it all.

Now, I'm not so naive to think that many, many, many managers in show business do things to further their clients and increase the bottom line that may be less than fair to others...nobody said life is fair. But it does get tiresome to see old, rich white people bicker and act stupid over money.