Journey - Eclipse

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

chewie wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Manny - Revelation went Platinum....I think they already have.

Wow, already?!?!?!?!

Revelation went Platinum within a year of release.

720,000+ physical units x2 CDs in each unit = 1,400,000 sales. Thank you YouTube & Oprah.

I knew that, I accepted the guy right away, and I meant if they replace Arnell with some of other guy, Tob Seems to think fans will accept anybody who sounds like Perry, I am not so sure. 'Generations' did not exactly set the Billboards charts on fire, I know as a touring band they did very well, album sales not so much.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

chewie wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Manny - Revelation went Platinum....I think they already have.

Wow, already?!?!?!?!

Revelation went Platinum within a year of release.

720,000+ physical units x2 CDs in each unit = 1,400,000 sales. Thank you YouTube & Oprah.

and walmart!

manny wrote:

SpectreFate wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn and ToB , you really think fans will accept, a third vocalist for Journey? I don't no matter how good he is, look at Van Halen, fans accepted two of out of their three vocalist, even the mighty Black Sabbath were unable to maintain the level of success they had after Ian Gillan bailed, as much as I liked Tony Martin, most Sabbath fans abandoned ship.

Arnel is actually the 4th, 6th if you count the dude from Vinnie Vincent Invasion's first LP and JSS.

I am only counting from Steve Perry onward, this first two Journey albums were more prog then AOR band, and Jeff Scott Soto barely lasted 6 minutes, I thought he was an interesting choice since he is so different then the two previous choices, but I guess I was the only that felt that way.

Schon wanted Soto, talked Cain into it, then when Schon & Soto began writing a bunch of songs Cain cried like a baby and said "No way is this guy having that much songwriting influence" and told Schon to drop Soto or he'd quit.

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia, even went so far as to write songs with him (one of which, "Never Walk Away", is on Revelation)...but Schon hated him and wanted Arnel...Schon threatened to end the whole thing if they did not hire Arnel...

The entire process is a power struggle between Cain & Schon.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

chewie wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Manny - Revelation went Platinum....I think they already have.

Wow, already?!?!?!?!

Revelation went Platinum within a year of release.

720,000+ physical units x2 CDs in each unit = 1,400,000 sales. Thank you YouTube & Oprah.

Sorry, I was thinking of the new one! DOH! That makes much better sense.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

SpectreFate wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn and ToB , you really think fans will accept, a third vocalist for Journey? I don't no matter how good he is, look at Van Halen, fans accepted two of out of their three vocalist, even the mighty Black Sabbath were unable to maintain the level of success they had after Ian Gillan bailed, as much as I liked Tony Martin, most Sabbath fans abandoned ship.

Arnel is actually the 4th, 6th if you count the dude from Vinnie Vincent Invasion's first LP and JSS.

I am only counting from Steve Perry onward, this first two Journey albums were more prog then AOR band, and Jeff Scott Soto barely lasted 6 minutes, I thought he was an interesting choice since he is so different then the two previous choices, but I guess I was the only that felt that way.

Schon wanted Soto, talked Cain into it, then when Schon & Soto began writing a bunch of songs Cain cried like a baby and said "No way is this guy having that much songwriting influence" and told Schon to drop Soto or he'd quit.

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia, even went so far as to write songs with him (one of which, "Never Walk Away", is on Revelation)...but Schon hated him and wanted Arnel...Schon threatened to end the whole thing if they did not hire Arnel...

The entire process is a power struggle between Cain & Schon.

That is interesting but Johnthan Cain isn't an original member, isn't the name Journey owned by Schon at this point?

manny wrote:

'Generations' did not exactly set the Billboards charts on fire, I know as a touring band they did very well, album sales not so much.

Well, Generations wasn't going to sell a lot of units since they were giving it away at there shows during that tour. That's how I got mine.

chewie wrote:

manny wrote:

'Generations' did not exactly set the Billboards charts on fire, I know as a touring band they did very well, album sales not so much.

Well, Generations wasn't going to sell a lot of units since they were giving it away at there shows during that tour. That's how I got mine.

Is that album any good?

manny wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

SpectreFate wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn and ToB , you really think fans will accept, a third vocalist for Journey? I don't no matter how good he is, look at Van Halen, fans accepted two of out of their three vocalist, even the mighty Black Sabbath were unable to maintain the level of success they had after Ian Gillan bailed, as much as I liked Tony Martin, most Sabbath fans abandoned ship.

Arnel is actually the 4th, 6th if you count the dude from Vinnie Vincent Invasion's first LP and JSS.

I am only counting from Steve Perry onward, this first two Journey albums were more prog then AOR band, and Jeff Scott Soto barely lasted 6 minutes, I thought he was an interesting choice since he is so different then the two previous choices, but I guess I was the only that felt that way.

Schon wanted Soto, talked Cain into it, then when Schon & Soto began writing a bunch of songs Cain cried like a baby and said "No way is this guy having that much songwriting influence" and told Schon to drop Soto or he'd quit.

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia, even went so far as to write songs with him (one of which, "Never Walk Away", is on Revelation)...but Schon hated him and wanted Arnel...Schon threatened to end the whole thing if they did not hire Arnel...

The entire process is a power struggle between Cain & Schon.

That is interesting but Johnthan Cain isn't an original member, isn't the name Journey owned by Schon at this point?

Nope. Schon & Cain run the show with Perry behind the scenes...the only way they existed at the beginning (Augeri years) was to pay Perry an equal, full time member salary...he was getting paid like he was there when he was home on the couch. I believe it's a Perry/Cain/Schon split with Perry handling all the "legacy" business (reissues, DVDs, etc) and Cain/Schon handling new business...

If Cain wants something Schon does not, Schon with threaten to quit...if Schon wants something Cain does not, Cain will threaten to quit...while Steve Perry sits at home and gets paid while working with the classic material.

manny wrote:

chewie wrote:

manny wrote:

'Generations' did not exactly set the Billboards charts on fire, I know as a touring band they did very well, album sales not so much.

Well, Generations wasn't going to sell a lot of units since they were giving it away at there shows during that tour. That's how I got mine.

Is that album any good?

It's got good songs on it...but they were in "experiment mode"...they all took turns at lead vocals...Augeri sings 7 songs I think? The rest were the others in the band...

They were giving it away, but the sales still count...they were "giving it away", but the cost was worked into the ticket sales...Prince has done this once or twice as well....the sales are just not recognized by SoundScan.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia

I thought he was lousy.

JSS is great but not right for this band. He's just Schon's buddy who was with him in a side project which is how he got in. The fans want a Perry clone and they pay the bills.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia

I thought he was lousy.

JSS is great but not right for this band. He's just Schon's buddy who was with him in a side project which is how he got in. The fans want a Perry clone and they pay the bills.

Supposedly, the tribute guy actually reminded Schon too much of Perry...couple that with Schon thinking he was an @$$h0le and there was no way Schon was going to keep him in the band. Cain loved him.

JSS would have been great on new material...he could have easily sang anything on Revelation and been awesome...but that back catalog every night for 6 months out of the year would have wrecked his throat.

Two grown acting like that sounds, I don't know what is the word I am looking for....oh yea silly, it feels like we are talking about Van Halen and DLR then Journey with these kind of antics.

manny wrote:

Two grown acting like that sounds, I don't know what is the word I am looking for....oh yea silly, it feels like we are talking about Van Halen and DLR then Journey with these kind of antics.

Journey, from the get go, was loaded down with egomaniacs... They're just so good and so positive lyrically that everyone assumes they're one big happy family...far from it.

BTW Shawn and ToB who is this tribute singer you guys keep mentioning?

manny wrote:

BTW Shawn and ToB who is this tribute singer you guys keep mentioning?

Jeremy Hunsicker...he sings for a tribute band called Frontiers...they tour all over the country.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

SpectreFate wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn and ToB , you really think fans will accept, a third vocalist for Journey? I don't no matter how good he is, look at Van Halen, fans accepted two of out of their three vocalist, even the mighty Black Sabbath were unable to maintain the level of success they had after Ian Gillan bailed, as much as I liked Tony Martin, most Sabbath fans abandoned ship.

Arnel is actually the 4th, 6th if you count the dude from Vinnie Vincent Invasion's first LP and JSS.

I am only counting from Steve Perry onward, this first two Journey albums were more prog then AOR band, and Jeff Scott Soto barely lasted 6 minutes, I thought he was an interesting choice since he is so different then the two previous choices, but I guess I was the only that felt that way.

Schon wanted Soto, talked Cain into it, then when Schon & Soto began writing a bunch of songs Cain cried like a baby and said "No way is this guy having that much songwriting influence" and told Schon to drop Soto or he'd quit.

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia, even went so far as to write songs with him (one of which, "Never Walk Away", is on Revelation)...but Schon hated him and wanted Arnel...Schon threatened to end the whole thing if they did not hire Arnel...

The entire process is a power struggle between Cain & Schon.

That is interesting but Johnthan Cain isn't an original member, isn't the name Journey owned by Schon at this point?

Nope. Schon & Cain run the show with Perry behind the scenes...the only way they existed at the beginning (Augeri years) was to pay Perry an equal, full time member salary...he was getting paid like he was there when he was home on the couch. I believe it's a Perry/Cain/Schon split with Perry handling all the "legacy" business (reissues, DVDs, etc) and Cain/Schon handling new business...

If Cain wants something Schon does not, Schon with threaten to quit...if Schon wants something Cain does not, Cain will threaten to quit...while Steve Perry sits at home and gets paid while working with the classic material.

I had also heard the Perry has some say in new members and gets to OK new albums since he owns 1/3 of the band with Schon and Cain. Everyone else are hired guns and draw a salary.

I also read an article about the new album - Schon said he and Cain had huge battles about the direction of the album. Cain wanted an album that sounded like AC Journey and Schon wanted a hard rock album with two ballads. Schon said he held to his guns with Cain and got what he wanted.

I like Arnel better than Agula. Arnel has helped Journey be able to play the sheds in the US as the headlining act again, where they where stuck opening for Def Leppard prior. I would have liked to hear with JSS could have done on the past two albums, but it sounds like Cain was a big cry baby about it

thejokeriv wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

SpectreFate wrote:

manny wrote:

Shawn and ToB , you really think fans will accept, a third vocalist for Journey? I don't no matter how good he is, look at Van Halen, fans accepted two of out of their three vocalist, even the mighty Black Sabbath were unable to maintain the level of success they had after Ian Gillan bailed, as much as I liked Tony Martin, most Sabbath fans abandoned ship.

Arnel is actually the 4th, 6th if you count the dude from Vinnie Vincent Invasion's first LP and JSS.

I am only counting from Steve Perry onward, this first two Journey albums were more prog then AOR band, and Jeff Scott Soto barely lasted 6 minutes, I thought he was an interesting choice since he is so different then the two previous choices, but I guess I was the only that felt that way.

Schon wanted Soto, talked Cain into it, then when Schon & Soto began writing a bunch of songs Cain cried like a baby and said "No way is this guy having that much songwriting influence" and told Schon to drop Soto or he'd quit.

Cain wanted to hire/keep that Journey tribute band guy from Virginia, even went so far as to write songs with him (one of which, "Never Walk Away", is on Revelation)...but Schon hated him and wanted Arnel...Schon threatened to end the whole thing if they did not hire Arnel...

The entire process is a power struggle between Cain & Schon.

That is interesting but Johnthan Cain isn't an original member, isn't the name Journey owned by Schon at this point?

Nope. Schon & Cain run the show with Perry behind the scenes...the only way they existed at the beginning (Augeri years) was to pay Perry an equal, full time member salary...he was getting paid like he was there when he was home on the couch. I believe it's a Perry/Cain/Schon split with Perry handling all the "legacy" business (reissues, DVDs, etc) and Cain/Schon handling new business...

If Cain wants something Schon does not, Schon with threaten to quit...if Schon wants something Cain does not, Cain will threaten to quit...while Steve Perry sits at home and gets paid while working with the classic material.

I had also heard the Perry has some say in new members and gets to OK new albums since he owns 1/3 of the band with Schon and Cain. Everyone else are hired guns and draw a salary.

I also read an article about the new album - Schon said he and Cain had huge battles about the direction of the album. Cain wanted an album that sounded like AC Journey and Schon wanted a hard rock album with two ballads. Schon said he held to his guns with Cain and got what he wanted.

I like Arnel better than Agula. Arnel has helped Journey be able to play the sheds in the US as the headlining act again, where they where stuck opening for Def Leppard prior. I would have liked to hear with JSS could have done on the past two albums, but it sounds like Cain was a big cry baby about it

I am pretty sure Perry avoids any "new" Journey dealings...he's the go-to guy for Sony whenever there's a comp, remaster or DVD thing to do...he's the archive guy and Schon/Cain trust him to do that. Schon/Cain call all new Journey shots.

I read the same thing about the new album.

I don't know how much of their current success lies in Arnel's (obvious) talent and how much was the rags-to-riches YouTube story, Oprah exposure/endorsement and a cheap product ($11.88 for 2CDs and a DVD). If Arnel were hired without YouTube (through managers, etc), without Oprah and without Walmart most people would not have even known that album existed.

I have to agree with you Shawn, when I first heard they hired a tribute singer, I was like whatever, then I read Arnell's story, saw Journey profiled on CBS Sunday Morning show and it made me curious, also Arnell's personal story is very compelling.

These factors alone made me curious, and then when I saw the album brand new at Walmart for $10, it had two CD's and DVD, that made up my mind and I snagged the album, the last Journey album I bought prior to this was 'Trial By Fire'

manny wrote:

I have to agree with you Shawn, when I first heard they hired a tribute singer, I was like whatever, then I read Arnell's story, saw Journey profiled on CBS Sunday Morning show and it made me curious, also Arnell's personal story is very compelling.

These factors alone made me curious, and then when I saw the album brand new at Walmart for $10, it had two CD's and DVD, that made up my mind and I snagged the album, the last Journey album I bought prior to this was 'Trial By Fire'

It was a perfect media storm. Journey had 2 albums, an EP and a live DVD between TBF and Revelation and hardly anyone but Journey die-hards knew they existed. Arrival was on Sony but got zero promotion. Then they were on Frontiers in Europe and Sanctuary in America and again zero promotion. It did not matter how good the albums were or not, nobody knew they were there.

Suddenly, YouTube, Oprah, CBS, Walmart, and BAM...Platinum album.

I just looked up Frontiers, ok that dude is scary sounds almost like Perry, almost too much like Perry, at least Arnell adds some of his own character into those old Journey classics.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

I have to agree with you Shawn, when I first heard they hired a tribute singer, I was like whatever, then I read Arnell's story, saw Journey profiled on CBS Sunday Morning show and it made me curious, also Arnell's personal story is very compelling.

These factors alone made me curious, and then when I saw the album brand new at Walmart for $10, it had two CD's and DVD, that made up my mind and I snagged the album, the last Journey album I bought prior to this was 'Trial By Fire'

It was a perfect media storm. Journey had 2 albums, an EP and a live DVD between TBF and Revelation and hardly anyone but Journey die-hards knew they existed. Arrival was on Sony but got zero promotion. Then they were on Frontiers in Europe and Sanctuary in America and again zero promotion. It did not matter how good the albums were or not, nobody knew they were there.

Suddenly, YouTube, Oprah, CBS, Walmart, and BAM...Platinum album.

yep. they hit the promotional jackpot with Revelation.

Very good album, mix of AOR and HARD ROCK but always JOURNEY style without modern influences. My fave songs are EDGE OF THE MOMENT, CHAIN OF LOVE, TANTRA, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, RITUAL, the super ballad TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN and SOMEONE.
The single CITY OF HOPE (they made a video clip of this one) is not bad but the songs i named before a much better imo.
The song i like the least is SHE´S A MYSTERY.
Great album, a 8,5 out of 10 points.

exact33 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

manny wrote:

I have to agree with you Shawn, when I first heard they hired a tribute singer, I was like whatever, then I read Arnell's story, saw Journey profiled on CBS Sunday Morning show and it made me curious, also Arnell's personal story is very compelling.

These factors alone made me curious, and then when I saw the album brand new at Walmart for $10, it had two CD's and DVD, that made up my mind and I snagged the album, the last Journey album I bought prior to this was 'Trial By Fire'

It was a perfect media storm. Journey had 2 albums, an EP and a live DVD between TBF and Revelation and hardly anyone but Journey die-hards knew they existed. Arrival was on Sony but got zero promotion. Then they were on Frontiers in Europe and Sanctuary in America and again zero promotion. It did not matter how good the albums were or not, nobody knew they were there.

Suddenly, YouTube, Oprah, CBS, Walmart, and BAM...Platinum album.

yep. they hit the promotional jackpot with Revelation.

But it's good, though. Not like it's undeserved, you know. Sad that this is the kind of thing it takes to get good music noticed. Sad that people have to be told what to like.

Anyway, I picked up the new disc today. Think some of you were pretty harsh on the packaging. Sure, it's a digipack and those typically stink, but for $10 I can't really complain about Eclipse's packaging.

Haven't listened to the album yet, though.

Good price you payed EYESORE, i payed 14.95 euros for it (21 $). Thats the normal price we pay in Spain and Europe many times for a new release. Why???? I have the FRONTIERS release, done in Italy but also digipack.

krokus wrote:

Good price you payed EYESORE, i payed 14.95 euros for it (21 $). Thats the normal price we pay in Spain and Europe many times for a new release. Why???? I have the FRONTIERS release, done in Italy but also digipack.

well if the frontiers is a digi i guess i will go ahead and get the wally world version...