A religious reaction to the new Mortification CD...

SpectreFate wrote:

Shiney wrote:

A lot of times there a none more blind thatn those peering through "God's eyes"

They sell "God's Eyes" at the store. They're right beside the "Beer Goggles". They have a strikingly similar result.

Me and my "God's Eye" shall now commence THE JUDGING.

I relate a similar note-o-sorts ?

One afternoon during preperation for a prison music ministry thing I am involved with, a person inquired about this Rolling Stones hoodie I wore (the established 1963 with the tounge within a circle) and how that seemed worldly for someone involved in ministry. The person was nice about it and even though sugar coated condemnation is still lame, I replied in the context of refering to the Nike golf shirt they sported.

I stated that the tounge symbol was a corporate logo similar to the Nike swoosh. The individuals that Nike pays millions to for an endorsement of thier product have similar if not worse lifestyles than any member of The Stones. By wearing a Nike shirt, perhaps the same concept of judgement should apply to that as given towards me in this instance.

After trying way too hard for many years to not put on the appearance of evil in action nor words, the realization that somebody, sometime, someplace will find "something"... what's the point. Focusing on this kind of stuff is actually a bondage that is more dangerous to an individuals
relationship than most realize. I suppose that if I'd not worn that Stones hoodie, there would of been more than the thirty something life changing decisions that afternoon ?

Ohhhhhhhhhh everybody knows sewing and knitting is an instrument of SATAN!!!!

manny wrote:

Ohhhhhhhhhh everybody knows sewing and knitting is an instrument of SATAN!!!!

Didn't you know? Every full moon at midnight, hordes of Satanists gather around their ritual cauldrons, cackling and knitting hand-woven Saxon and Metallica patches for metalheads' jackets.

I just wish more people would mind their own business.

[quote="James B."After trying way too hard for many years to not put on the appearance of evil in action nor words, the realization that somebody, sometime, someplace will find "something"... what's the point. Focusing on this kind of stuff is actually a bondage that is more dangerous to an individuals
relationship than most realize. I suppose that if I'd not worn that Stones hoodie, there would of been more than the thirty something life changing decisions that afternoon ?[/quote]

And that's the thing right there. That whole "appearance of evil" thing that churches LOVE to quote is taken so far out of context it's ridiculous. A quick search through a few good Bible commentaries will prove that.

Even if the context was correct, you are correct, someone somewhere will find something you are doing as "the appearance of evil". Is playing cards evil? I know people that think it is. If you have a glass of wine at your wedding, will an former alcoholic see that as the ok to start drinking again? If you wear a hockey jersey, are you endorsing the lifestyles of every guy on the team? Hardly! It's a crock.

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I have never cornholed a hooker

You have a way with words dude...

thanks, it's a gift. I really just wanted to see if the filter would catch that and what it would morph into...I'm sort of dissappointed.

some people need to stop bickering about all the little things and get their focus back on the things in life that really matter.

Shiney wrote:

A lot of times there a none more blind thatn those peering through "God's eyes"

GREAT point!!!!!

People like this drive me up the wall - it is all part of the "holiness" garbage promoted by people like Jerry Bridges (see the pursuit of holiness or his other books) which is just basically re-packaged puritism (I am not a fan of the puritanical movement) and salvation through works - that is where all this stuff comes from. They call it "justification through works" and quote the same verse Ult did about working out your own salavation with fear and trembling. If these people even understood the Bible AND the history behind it - you can not truly understand the bible with out understanding the history behind the book.

It's a judgemental, legalistic lifestyle and my FREEDOM in Christ is that I am FREE because he stands in my place in from of God on judgement day - not these guys/gals and tell me "you are going to make so and so stumble" and are judging ME - it is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS what I listen to or weather or not I own concert T's from Metal bands (I HATE the "secular" label)

I do wonder how many people got rid of their secular music collection because of peer pressure and said "God told me to do it".

ULT - great points , well written, if it was me I would have to calm down before I respond or I might have told him to go smurf off!

Anyway, I think that kind of stuff is a bunch of BS, and that dude needs to get off his soap box.

thejokeriv wrote:

I do wonder how many people got rid of their secular music collection because of peer pressure...

THIS IS A SORE SUBJECT WITH ULT!!! SSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!

T-Roy wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

I do wonder how many people got rid of their secular music collection because of peer pressure...

THIS IS A SORE SUBJECT WITH ULT!!! SSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!

It's a sore subject with me too!!!!

"And I didn't even get into Mick wearing a Jimi Hendrix t-shirt!?!?! The guy was a freakin' drug addict, and you're going to announce to the world that "You need to love Jesus and obey his Word", but then seemingly endorse an open drug user on a CD that is supposed to be against all kinds of addictions. It just doesn't make sense to me."


Calling Jimi Hendrix an open drug user is uncalled for ! Where does the person responsible for this post live, we need to have a few words. :kickbutt:

manny wrote:

Where does the person responsible for this post live

Up Dick Cheney's ass.

To many Christians, the "appearance of evil" happens to be what THEY personally view as weird or dark or evil...they don't realize how much thier personal taste and viewpoint affects thier interpretation of that scripture...I find it perplexing that they're basically writing off Rowe's 20+ years of ministry over a jacket...superficial garbage, if you ask me...God doesn't care what shirt I wear...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

To many Christians, the "appearance of evil" happens to be what THEY personally view as weird or dark or evil...they don't realize how much thier personal taste and viewpoint affects thier interpretation of that scripture...I find it perplexing that they're basically writing off Rowe's 20+ years of ministry over a jacket...superficial garbage, if you ask me...God doesn't care what shirt I wear...

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

I think especially believers need to be careful in splitting hairs when it comes to "interpreting" scripture or taking it's "context". You want to wear what ever you want, that's fine. I certainly do. But I wouldn't spend time trying to disprove scripture or its meaning because at face value it doesn't line up with what I do or feel.

I could find dozens of scriptures that would at the very least discourage doing this as a Christian. And none (as obvious from this thread and hundreds like it) regarding God not caring or supporting me doing whatever I want.

It's a strange topic, cuz I don't feel we should be judging anybody because they wear it or listen to it. I really don't! But....trying to prove it's okay or even somehow because of our super maturity in the Lord? Seems even more futile to me.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the notion that Iron Maiden, Saxon, and Metallica are Evil

Man, being (pseudo) Catholic sure is easier! We can't read the bible and we just tell the priest when we've sinned. j/k

On a more serious note, it sounds like this guy should just take it easy and stop acting all high and mighty. Sheesh.

sheets wrote:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the notion that Iron Maiden, Saxon, and Metallica are Evil

Subliminal messages my friend, subliminal messages.

Dave the Boss wrote:

Man, being (pseudo) Catholic sure is easier! We can't read the bible and we just tell the priest when we've sinned. j/k

Pharisees

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But....trying to prove it's okay or even somehow because of our super maturity in the Lord? Seems even more futile to me.

And when people who have no problem with something other Christians DO have a problem with, we get told that "our side" is even more futile. I was only pointing out that certain scriptures cover more area than we even think of....it's all filtered through our personal viewpoints.

It's the same thing as Christians who think that "taking the Lord's name in vain" simply means saying "G0d-d@m"...when it means SO much more than that.

ultmetal wrote:

This sort of Western Christian mentality is NOT what Paul had in mind.

Could not have said it any better Scott. Coming from an Eastern Christian world view, I did not know whether to laugh really hard or cry at what that guy wrote. Lord have mercy on us all.

Lots of information about that 1. Thes. 5 Scripture on-line! Incredible reading.

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If I were to make a list of the most abused (or "twisted") passages in the Bible, I think that 1 Thessalonians 5:22 would be near the head of the list. In the King James Version of the Bible this passage simply commands us to "abstain from all appearance of evil." This verse is explained by many folks to mean that if some act "appears" to be evil then we must abstain from it. Of course, the person explaining the passage gets to determine what "appears" evil and what doesn't. If they don't like going to the movie theater then you can't go either -- it "appears" to be evil. If they don't like playing cards then you can't play either -- it "appears" to be evil. If they don't like vanilla ice cream then you can't eat it either -- it "appears" to be evil.

This one almost says word for word what I said:
http://www.experiencegrace.com/Appearance_of_Evil.html

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I’ve come to see that this little verse has become one of two large buckets for condemning something or someone that the “legalist” doesn’t like, the other being the “stumbling block” bucket! (see my: “Stumbling over the issue of Stumbling Blocks”) Both buckets are sweeping type statements that might be meant to help the fellow Christian but in actuality they squelch Christian freedom and ultimately evangelism. They are used when the legalist has not found a definitive Biblical response. They then say something like: “God wants us to avoid all appearance of evil in our lives.”...

At the time I had picked up a wonderful book by Joseph C. Aldrich entitled: “Life-Style Evangelism.” In it he addressed this very verse in a chapter called: “Avoid Evil Instead of Its Appearance.” He says the following:

In the Thessalonians passage quotes, Paul is talking about prophetic utterances in the previous verses (19-21). “Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.” What is to be tested? The content (the message) of every prophetic utterance. What is good is to be held on to; what is evil is to be rejected. The passage is not saying never do something which looks like sin to another person. Jesus Christ frequently offended the leaders of the religious community.[i]

Aldrich pointed me in the direction of the context of the passage and to allow the context to dictate what the verse was saying. Let’s see the verse in its context:

Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil. (1 Thess. 5:19-22)

In the text the Apostle Paul is telling them to allow prophetic revelations of the Spirit, test the utterances, keep what is good and abstain from those that appear bad. It is that simple. Paul is not telling them to avoid actions that might look bad to someone else as many say today.

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The Expositors Bible Commentary:

From Paul’s next prohibition, “Do not treat prophecies with contempt,” it appears that the Christians at Thessalonica like those at Corinth (1 Cor. 14:1) had underrated the gift of prophecy…Apparently, however, certain “idle” brothers (vs. 14; cf. 4:11,12) had misused this gift by falsifying data regarding the Lord’s return. This had soured the remainder of the flock against prophecy in general…Paul stipulates that all charismatic manifestations be tested with a view to accepting what is valid and disallowing what is not (vs.21, 21)…Allowance must also be made for professed spiritual manifestations that do not contribute but rather detract from the development of the local body…. “Hold fast” to the good, but “hold yourselves free from” every kind of evil that tries to parade as a genuine representation of the Spirit.”[iii]

To the contrary, one site used the verse to say that God is concerned with how we look and if we dress like a metal fan, or in the case of that particular article, a punk rocker, we are dressing in "the appearance of evil" and are offending God. Interesting how that works.

I love being challenged by Scripture. I've so often found out that God's Word is much simpler than I make it out to be. Hebrews says, all things are naked and visible to God. Someday we will all be laid bare, our sins laid out in front of us. Our only hope is in the grace of God through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Awesome!