A religious reaction to the new Mortification CD...

Someone disappointed in the new Morty...but not for the reasons one would think.

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One last thing...the last song is the tribute to Rez, where Steve is thankful that they helped him out of the secular heavy metal lifestyle, and that kind of music in general. But then if you look at the picture in the tray, he has on a jacket with Metallica and Iron Maiden patches and a Saxon shirt! What's up with that? He's basically giving these bands his stamp of approval in doing that. I've never known Steve to send mixed messages.

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As far as Steve's jacket...we are called to come out from among the world and be separate. We need to be very careful as Christians. If a baby/immature Christian gets the new Mort CD, and just came out of secular metal, seeing Steve's endorsement of those bands tells them that it must be OK to listen to. If they fall away from the Lord because of that, then that's on Steve. Read 1 Cor. chapter 8, and Paul warns us about our freedom causing other brothers to stumble. That's my problem with the jacket. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE Mortification. I've bought the first CD the day it came out, and have done so with every CD since then. Steve is an awesome servant with a heart of gold. That being said, it makes it that much more difficult for me to understand why he would openly endorse those bands that he was delivered from. And I didn't even get into Mick wearing a Jimi Hendrix t-shirt!?!?! The guy was a freakin' drug addict, and you're going to announce to the world that "You need to love Jesus and obey his Word", but then seemingly endorse an open drug user on a CD that is supposed to be against all kinds of addictions. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm far more disappointed with the imagery on this CD than any of the music. Musically, it's Mortification (reminds me a lot of Silver Cord). IMO, it's not their best, but that's OK, there's always the next one.

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Also, to add a tag to what I wrote above...I got saved in 1988. I came out of a drug/alcohol secular metal lifestyle. I was a huge fan of bands like Kiss, Motley Crue, Megadeth, Slayer, etc. When the Blood Of Jesus washed me clean, I did a 180 and began to walk the other way. Despite having a different Kiss or Motley Crue shirt for each day of the month, I never wore another one after I got saved. Why would you? Christ died to free us from those bondages, why would we go back? Or even give the impession that it's OK to go back? We, as Christians, need to set the example for the lost. There needs to be a distinct line in the sand, and make it clear that we are not going to cross it.

The world does a good enough job of watering down what the Bible says. We need to be the ones who CLEARLY show the path of righteousness, and not send mixed messages and offer gray areas to those who are searching for the Light. Please read my signature below...let's stay as far away from the world as possible. Christ offers abundant life, PERIOD. We don't need to go searching in secular music to find ANY satisfaction. We only put ourselves in danger of causing a weaker brother or sister to stumble. I personally don't want that on my conscience.

What say ye?

This was my response:

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SIGH!

I can't believe that Steve's JACKET is a point of contention here. He is not trying to save people from secular music. He is trying to present a crucified and risen Savior to the world. Listening to a Saxon song isn't sin, nor will it necessarily cause anyone to sin. Having a Saxon patch on his jacket is hardly worth fretting over. Rather than worrying about some baby Christian stumbling over a Saxon or Metallica patch on a jacket, I'd rather think that identifying with those bands might give him some credibility with those who are into the metal scene. I know that has been the case with me. I have a denim vest I wear on stage regularly and it too has a Saxon patch, as well as Mortification, Deliverance, Accept, and several other bands. I'm not endorsing "sin" or anyone's sinful lifestyle. Rather, I am endorsing the music I enjoy and has inspired me. Steve is doing the same exact thing. Saxon and Metallica are bands that have inspired him musically. Obviously Steve's lyrics are as bold and bold can get. He's not ashamed of his Savior or sharing the good news, so he's not endorsing "sin", as was previously mentioned.

I'd hate to think what some of you think of the new Ultimatum CD where we cover some of those bands. We've always been a band where the Gospel has been #1 in our lyrics. We were very careful on our new CD to pick out songs that the lyrics would not be an issue. Wait til you hear us cover Twisted Sister "Sin After Sin". Those lyrics are actually more "Christian" than many of the band's people praise on this site.

BTW, I like his jacket. I like the big 'ol ULTIMATUM patch on his jacket!

ultmetal wrote:

Someone disappointed in the new Morty...but not for the reasons one would think.

Quote :

One last thing...the last song is the tribute to Rez, where Steve is thankful that they helped him out of the secular heavy metal lifestyle, and that kind of music in general. But then if you look at the picture in the tray, he has on a jacket with Metallica and Iron Maiden patches and a Saxon shirt! What's up with that? He's basically giving these bands his stamp of approval in doing that. I've never known Steve to send mixed messages.

Quote :

As far as Steve's jacket...we are called to come out from among the world and be separate. We need to be very careful as Christians. If a baby/immature Christian gets the new Mort CD, and just came out of secular metal, seeing Steve's endorsement of those bands tells them that it must be OK to listen to. If they fall away from the Lord because of that, then that's on Steve. Read 1 Cor. chapter 8, and Paul warns us about our freedom causing other brothers to stumble. That's my problem with the jacket. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE Mortification. I've bought the first CD the day it came out, and have done so with every CD since then. Steve is an awesome servant with a heart of gold. That being said, it makes it that much more difficult for me to understand why he would openly endorse those bands that he was delivered from. And I didn't even get into Mick wearing a Jimi Hendrix t-shirt!?!?! The guy was a freakin' drug addict, and you're going to announce to the world that "You need to love Jesus and obey his Word", but then seemingly endorse an open drug user on a CD that is supposed to be against all kinds of addictions. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm far more disappointed with the imagery on this CD than any of the music. Musically, it's Mortification (reminds me a lot of Silver Cord). IMO, it's not their best, but that's OK, there's always the next one.

Quote :

Also, to add a tag to what I wrote above...I got saved in 1988. I came out of a drug/alcohol secular metal lifestyle. I was a huge fan of bands like Kiss, Motley Crue, Megadeth, Slayer, etc. When the Blood Of Jesus washed me clean, I did a 180 and began to walk the other way. Despite having a different Kiss or Motley Crue shirt for each day of the month, I never wore another one after I got saved. Why would you? Christ died to free us from those bondages, why would we go back? Or even give the impession that it's OK to go back? We, as Christians, need to set the example for the lost. There needs to be a distinct line in the sand, and make it clear that we are not going to cross it.

The world does a good enough job of watering down what the Bible says. We need to be the ones who CLEARLY show the path of righteousness, and not send mixed messages and offer gray areas to those who are searching for the Light. Please read my signature below...let's stay as far away from the world as possible. Christ offers abundant life, PERIOD. We don't need to go searching in secular music to find ANY satisfaction. We only put ourselves in danger of causing a weaker brother or sister to stumble. I personally don't want that on my conscience.

What say ye?

OK, Troublezone has gone too far this time.

I have to say I agree to an extent. But....that should not come as any surprise to anybody that knows me! I personally find it extremely difficult for Christians to justify representing secular bands who promote anti-Christian messages/themes whether sincere or not or extreme or not. As well as flaunting around shirts and jackets. I've yet to hear an excuse that wasn't just that....an excuse for personal freedom and choice.

HOWEVER.....THIS IS NOT A HEAVEN OR HELL ISSUE TO ME BY ANY STRETCH!!! And I very much disagree with Steve being responsible for a brother/sister falling because of a patch or t-shirt. That's silly.

GO AHEAD GUYS, BRING IT ON!!! LOL! :starwars:

I think there are too many people that are too concerned with other people's business. I say tend to your own yard and let others live their lives and stop trying to force your views of life onto someone who sees things completely different than you. Christians like that guy (not you Troy) make me want to punch them in the face. If they turn the other cheek, I'll punch them again.

SpectreFate wrote:

......make me want to punch them in the face. If they turn the other cheek, I'll punch them again.

um...what cheeks are you referring to EXACTLY!? :

Uhhhh yeah. OK. The Saxon and Metallica patches on Steve Rowe's jacket are the cause behind all the evil and sin in the world. Got it.

Sheeeeeeesh. (rolls eyes)

I have always had issue with anyone who claims music or imagery cause them to live or act in a certain manner.

Firstly, I am a Christian: I believe in God. I believe that relationship is personal and between me and He...that's all I say.

2ndly, I have been listening to sleazy metal since I was like 11. I have NEVER smoked a cigarette...taken ANY drugs or drank ANY alcohol...I have never cornholed a hooker or done anything deviantly sexual...or slept around when I was younger.

So I think this whole.."what mixed signals" these pics send it ox manur...plain and simple. It's week people looking for something to pin their weakness on.

Pfft.

SpectreFate wrote:

I think there are too many people that are too concerned with other people's business. I say tend to your own yard and let others live their lives and stop trying to force your views of life onto someone who sees things completely different than you.

ABSOLUTELY BRO. This is not something you post in criticism about another brother or believer. That's ultimately between you and God and nobody else. But....when I'm asked my beliefs on the matter....I will tell them. But those are my convictions. Nobody else's.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Uhhhh yeah. OK. The Saxon and Metallica patches on Steve Rowe's jacket are the cause behind all the evil and sin in the world. Got it.

Sheeeeeeesh. (rolls eyes)

You NEVER knew this?! You're SO naive.

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when I'm asked my beliefs on the matter....I will tell them. But those are my convictions. Nobody else's.

Exactly.

Jackass wrote:

We don't need to go searching in secular music to find ANY
satisfaction. We only put ourselves in danger of causing a weaker
brother or sister to stumble. I personally don't want that on my
conscience.

I'm glad this guy takes upon himself to feel like a martyr for the entire Christian community. Thanks buddy, but someone already sacrificed themselves for my selfishness, I don't need you to attempt the same.

SpectreFate wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Someone disappointed in the new Morty...but not for the reasons one would think.

Quote :

One last thing...the last song is the tribute to Rez, where Steve is thankful that they helped him out of the secular heavy metal lifestyle, and that kind of music in general. But then if you look at the picture in the tray, he has on a jacket with Metallica and Iron Maiden patches and a Saxon shirt! What's up with that? He's basically giving these bands his stamp of approval in doing that. I've never known Steve to send mixed messages.

Quote :

As far as Steve's jacket...we are called to come out from among the world and be separate. We need to be very careful as Christians. If a baby/immature Christian gets the new Mort CD, and just came out of secular metal, seeing Steve's endorsement of those bands tells them that it must be OK to listen to. If they fall away from the Lord because of that, then that's on Steve. Read 1 Cor. chapter 8, and Paul warns us about our freedom causing other brothers to stumble. That's my problem with the jacket. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE Mortification. I've bought the first CD the day it came out, and have done so with every CD since then. Steve is an awesome servant with a heart of gold. That being said, it makes it that much more difficult for me to understand why he would openly endorse those bands that he was delivered from. And I didn't even get into Mick wearing a Jimi Hendrix t-shirt!?!?! The guy was a freakin' drug addict, and you're going to announce to the world that "You need to love Jesus and obey his Word", but then seemingly endorse an open drug user on a CD that is supposed to be against all kinds of addictions. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm far more disappointed with the imagery on this CD than any of the music. Musically, it's Mortification (reminds me a lot of Silver Cord). IMO, it's not their best, but that's OK, there's always the next one.

Quote :

Also, to add a tag to what I wrote above...I got saved in 1988. I came out of a drug/alcohol secular metal lifestyle. I was a huge fan of bands like Kiss, Motley Crue, Megadeth, Slayer, etc. When the Blood Of Jesus washed me clean, I did a 180 and began to walk the other way. Despite having a different Kiss or Motley Crue shirt for each day of the month, I never wore another one after I got saved. Why would you? Christ died to free us from those bondages, why would we go back? Or even give the impession that it's OK to go back? We, as Christians, need to set the example for the lost. There needs to be a distinct line in the sand, and make it clear that we are not going to cross it.

The world does a good enough job of watering down what the Bible says. We need to be the ones who CLEARLY show the path of righteousness, and not send mixed messages and offer gray areas to those who are searching for the Light. Please read my signature below...let's stay as far away from the world as possible. Christ offers abundant life, PERIOD. We don't need to go searching in secular music to find ANY satisfaction. We only put ourselves in danger of causing a weaker brother or sister to stumble. I personally don't want that on my conscience.

What say ye?

OK, Troublezone has gone too far this time.

Very funny! But what makes you think i don't listen to secular metal?

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Very funny! But what makes you think i don't listen to secular metal?

I know you do, I'm just yankin' yer chain.

Yankin' another man's chain...what kind of message does that send to other Christians?!

Shiney wrote:

Yankin' another man's chain...what kind of message does that send to other Christians?!

YOU'RE GOING TO HELL FOR THAT MR!!! CHAINS ARE THE DEVIL!

Shiney wrote:

Yankin' another man's chain...what kind of message does that send to other Christians?!

I do it while reading Leviticus 24:5. It's perfectly OK.

My opinion: it's OK to listen to secular music just like it's OK to read secular books.

God has a different call for each believer, he may be calling you out to toast your secular music collection, but that may not be the case for the next guy......so I say LEAVE IT BE!!!!!! That whole thing is between you and God.

on a sidenote, if this guy truly believes having a worldly band patch is a big deal, then I sure hope he holds true to that thinking to EVERYTHING else in this planet that is "not of god".

Your response was perfect Ult.

I forget people like that exists in the real world, here is a band that sing songs about God and praise Jesus (I am asuming never heard their music) and instead of focusing on the that part he chooses to focus on the part that dude is wearing a SAXON PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What did Jesus say, remove that log out of your own eye before you attempt to remove a splinter from your brother's eye.

A lot of times there a none more blind thatn those peering through "God's eyes"

Shiney wrote:

A lot of times there a none more blind thatn those peering through "God's eyes"

They sell "God's Eyes" at the store. They're right beside the "Beer Goggles". They have a strikingly similar result.

You are truly...a mess.

By the way, Ult, I have to give you props for your well thought out and eloquent response to this guy... I could never have been that nice about it... my response would've been something along the lines of "Aaaaah, shaddap, Zippy"