Iced Earth, interview with about Tim Owens

UltraMagnus007 wrote:

First let me add I have been a major fan of Iced Earth for quite a while now.

My disapointment comes from the hypocritical way Jon seems to love every member of Iced Earth and talks crap about them when they leave 5 minutes later. Sure I would rather have the truth but also maybe a little consistancy. Some of you have talked about the myth of the democratic band and shown examples of why this doesn't always work. Jon has always maintained that he admires Steve Harris of Iron maiden and see's his vision of Iced earth in a similar way to Steve's of Iron Maiden. Now, whilst it is true that Maiden have had a few line up changes Steve has shown that one person can be in control of a band but still allow other members to have their input and allow their creativity into the band, and this has been good for Maiden as look where they are now and they still produce fantastic albums.

Do you ever think about how many people you meet that seem totally cool and quickly turn out to be worthless dickheads? Happens all the time. The difference, however, is that the world isn't hanging on all your words. Jon farts and Blabbermouth posts about it. There is nothing hypocritical about saying someone is great, then later saying, "Whoops. They actually sucked." Maybe Jon should have continued to praise the rapist that was in the band for a minute before being convicted and sent to jail. I mean, to avoid being hypocritical and all.

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Everyone into Iced Earth knows that this is really the Jon Schaffer band but for the most part fans don't care as it's the music that counts and it's my opinion that the music has suffered to a certian extent in recent times and I think this is down to the fact that Jon doesn't allow anyones thoughts, opinions or input into anything anymore. Since the Glorious Burden it has been obvious that no one but Jon has anything to do with the writing of any music.

Welcome to Ignorance 101. First off, Jon has shown countless times where he's allowed the input of others. Second, not a single one of us knows a damn thing about how much input he does or doesn't allow. He has final say, that is clear, but never has he said that it's a shut up and work environment, where he writes everything. Yet fans continuously make this assumption that Jon is a tyrannical band leader. It's nonsense.

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Whilst the last 3/4 albums have their moments they are nothing compared to the earlier stuff. I found the Crucible of Man to be incredibly boring. despite a fantastic vocal performance from Matt. I also notice that the last few albums are missing the killer lead work and solos and the energy of albums like something wicked.

Jon has shifted gears as a songwriter. Stop comparing. That era of Iced Earth is over, and the last three albums are different. Of course, we heard all this same sort of crap when The Dark Saga came out, all the same accusations. Yet now so many consider that album some sort of masterpiece.

The last three albums are overall very good, and often great. They're different. Artists change. People change. Don't compare.

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Line up changes DO affect a bands chemistry. The sooner Jon stops writing overblown epic concept albums that people really don't give a fig about the story and the sooner he get back to just simply writing killer songs the better in my opinion.

Not gonna happen. Find a new band.

I just checked. There isn't a single Iced Earth album that doesn't give songwriting (not just lyrical) credit to multiple band members besides Schaffer. So much for the theory of Jon refusing the input of others.

I love IE, I am a huge fan. Everyone in music seems to have a moment where the music lacks what we come to expect from a band. I guess it's time to just enjoy that, that particular band is still putting out music. Bands change I agree, but the difference from Matt to Ripper was a huge style change imo.

Of course Jon uses other band members input. Unless you are a one man band I think everyone put there creativeness to a record. Jon just seems to word things differently then maybe we would.

[quote="Eyesore"]

UltraMagnus007 wrote:

First let me add I have been a major fan of Iced Earth for quite a while now.

My disapointment comes from the hypocritical way Jon seems to love every member of Iced Earth and talks crap about them when they leave 5 minutes later. Sure I would rather have the truth but also maybe a little consistancy. Some of you have talked about the myth of the democratic band and shown examples of why this doesn't always work. Jon has always maintained that he admires Steve Harris of Iron maiden and see's his vision of Iced earth in a similar way to Steve's of Iron Maiden. Now, whilst it is true that Maiden have had a few line up changes Steve has shown that one person can be in control of a band but still allow other members to have their input and allow their creativity into the band, and this has been good for Maiden as look where they are now and they still produce fantastic albums.

Do you ever think about how many people you meet that seem totally cool and quickly turn out to be worthless dickheads? Happens all the time. The difference, however, is that the world isn't hanging on all your words. Jon farts and Blabbermouth posts about it. There is nothing hypocritical about saying someone is great, then later saying, "Whoops. They actually sucked." Maybe Jon should have continued to praise the rapist that was in the band for a minute before being convicted and sent to jail. I mean, to avoid being hypocritical and all.

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Everyone into Iced Earth knows that this is really the Jon Schaffer band but for the most part fans don't care as it's the music that counts and it's my opinion that the music has suffered to a certian extent in recent times and I think this is down to the fact that Jon doesn't allow anyones thoughts, opinions or input into anything anymore. Since the Glorious Burden it has been obvious that no one but Jon has anything to do with the writing of any music.

Welcome to Ignorance 101. First off, Jon has shown countless times where he's allowed the input of others. Second, not a single one of us knows a damn thing about how much input he does or doesn't allow. He has final say, that is clear, but never has he said that it's a shut up and work environment, where he writes everything. Yet fans continuously make this assumption that Jon is a tyrannical band leader. It's nonsense.



You seem to be defending Jon from the same position as I am being critical. Do you know Jon personally. If yes then ok, if no then how do you know for sure he isn't a tryannical band leader. Now maybe I didn't check the song writing credits on each album but hey, don't for one minute try and say he is not in total control of all Iced Earth material. I have read enough interviews with jon and passed Iced Earth members to form the opinion that he writes everything the band does and it is certainly apparant to me on every album since Horror show that this is the case.

As for your commnts about meeting people that seem great at first and then turn out to be dicks well true story, this happens a lot in life but can you name me one band that has had as many members as Iced Earth that the main man has loved then talked trash about. The only one I can think of is megadeth but still not on par. Iced Earth has had so many past members they could get together and form a football franchise and leads me to the opinion that Jon is hard to work with and goes back to the tyrannical band leader opinion.

As I have stated this is opinion as I doubt i'll ever meet jon but before you counter this opinion ask yourself, are you intimately involved with Iced Earth? Can you really ay for sure that my opinion is wrong?

I really don't get where this "Jon talks trash about past band members" comes from. Maybe he hasn't been the smoothest when talking about Tim, but he is still positive about the experience. He always seems to be very honest about the band members, and I've rarely actually seen him slam anyone. Except maybe Ernie Carletti. When Tim Mills had to leave the fold due to commitments to his company, just before recording Framing Armageddon, Jon had nothing but good things to say of him. As far as I'm aware, Jon never talked trash about Matt when he left, he just said his heart wasn't in it. That's not talking trash, that's giving the fans a legitimate reason for Matt's leaving (which was of his own accord, anyway).

tl;dr: Basically, Jon gets a rather unjust bad rap. He just knows what he wants and is generally very honest to the press.

UltraMagnus007 wrote:

You seem to be defending Jon from the same position as I am being critical. Do you know Jon personally. If yes then ok, if no then how do you know for sure he isn't a tryannical band leader. Now maybe I didn't check the song writing credits on each album but hey, don't for one minute try and say he is not in total control of all Iced Earth material. I have read enough interviews with jon and passed Iced Earth members to form the opinion that he writes everything the band does and it is certainly apparant to me on every album since Horror show that this is the case.

Nope. I don't know Jon personally, but I also don't make assumptions. I have never based my opinion on speculation, like the Jon haters do. I take his own words, his own actions, and then formulate my opinion. And considering that Iced Earth has had a lot of members, and none of those ex-members make the accusations that fans make, I'm inclined to trust in my opinion much more than yours.

As for control, Jon is in control of the band, he's the boss. Why not acknowledge that your previous comment was completely ignorant before trying again from a different angle. Jon allows input from others, but he has final say. If he doesn't like something someone else suggests, that's too bad for them. Some people won't be able to handle that. Sort of like how you'll probably get all up in arms now that I've pointed out your previous comment was completely innacurate.

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As for your commnts about meeting people that seem great at first and then turn out to be dicks well true story, this happens a lot in life but can you name me one band that has had as many members as Iced Earth that the main man has loved then talked trash about. The only one I can think of is megadeth but still not on par. Iced Earth has had so many past members they could get together and form a football franchise and leads me to the opinion that Jon is hard to work with and goes back to the tyrannical band leader opinion.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Countless bands have gone through countless band members. Moreover, who specifically has Jon talked smurf poo about after praising them? Tim Owens? Who else? Because you're implying that Jon does it all the time, and frankly I find that notion to be a bit heavy in the fiction department.

Jon probably is hard to work with if you're a stubborn person that can't grasp that you actually have a boss, a band leader. If someone wants to go cowboy, well, Jon will probably fire them. Just like I can't tell my boss what to do. Just like you can't tell your boss what to do. There's a relationship there that you must respect. If you don't, hit the bricks, sonny.

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As I have stated this is opinion as I doubt i'll ever meet jon but before you counter this opinion ask yourself, are you intimately involved with Iced Earth? Can you really ay for sure that my opinion is wrong?

I already showed that a good chunk of your opinion is wrong. As for the rest, believe what you want, but I'd rather choose to believe the words and actions of someone rather than twist things to form some sort of skewed opinion based on illogic.

Here's an interview about working with Jon and what it's like.

http://www.azheavymetal.com/noticias/01_2008/noticia17754.php

pretty much sums it up for me. It's all about Jon's vision. If you aren't on par with it. he will let you know how he feels.

Well, it's his band. I would guess that these musicians knew what they were getting into when they signed up. Especially after all these year.

Almost ALL bands have a leader(s)...VERY few bands are true democracies...IE is Jon's vision...MEGADETH is Mustaine's...DREAM THEATER is Petrucci/Portnoy's...NEVERMORE is Dane/Loomis'...the leader will hear other ideas and will approve them or not based on how it enhances the overall vision...it's the way it is...calling someone a jerk for it (and I am guilty as well) is absurd...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Almost ALL bands have a leader(s)...VERY few bands are true democracies

True. And the ones that are tend to write songs that sound like an unorganized mess (YES, for example).

MetalRob331 wrote:

Here's an interview about working with Jon and what it's like.

http://www.azheavymetal.com/noticias/01_2008/noticia17754.php

pretty much sums it up for me. It's all about Jon's vision. If you aren't on par with it. he will let you know how he feels.

And there's not a damn thing wrong with that.