Iced Earth, interview with about Tim Owens

ultmetal wrote:

Glenn Tipton would be the only original member of Judas Priest

i thought KK & Ian were in Priest before Glen was? i thought Glen was only brought in after the record company wanted a trumpet player or something like that?

mc666 wrote:

i thought KK & Ian were in Priest before Glen was? i thought Glen was only brought in after the record company wanted a trumpet player or something like that?

Wikipedia sez:

Before the band entered the studio to record their first album, the
record company suggested the band add another musician. As Downing was
reluctant to add a keyboard player or horn player, he chose to add
another lead guitarist, Glenn Tipton, from the Stafford-based Flying Hat Band. Tipton reworked existing material and took over as main song writer. In August 1974, the band debuted with the single "Rocka Rolla", before releasing an album of the same name a month later.

mc666 wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Glenn Tipton would be the only original member of Judas Priest

i thought KK & Ian were in Priest before Glen was? i thought Glen was only brought in after the record company wanted a trumpet player or something like that?

Actually, I think you are correct.
Rob Halford - Vocals (1973-1991, 2003-current)
Glenn Tipton - Guitar (1974-current)
Kenneth 'K.K.' Downing - Guitar (1969-current)
Ian Hill - Bass (1969-current)
Scott Travis - Drums (1989-current)

Being the recognized original vocalist is different. There is nothing wrong with people recognizing Bon as the original vocalist. Most people probably have no idea someone came before him. In fact, a lot of people probably have no idea that Brian Johnson isn't their first singer.

All in all i just wish IE would take a step back and rework the magic that was Stormrider, Burnt Offerings, Dark Saga, Something Wicked. I feel Jon is trying too hard to write epic songs filled with all these compositions.

MetalRob331 wrote:

All in all i just wish IE would take a step back and rework the magic that was Stormrider, Burnt Offerings, Dark Saga, Something Wicked. I feel Jon is trying too hard to write epic songs filled with all these compositions.

ultmetal wrote:

mc666 wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Glenn Tipton would be the only original member of Judas Priest

i thought KK & Ian were in Priest before Glen was? i thought Glen was only brought in after the record company wanted a trumpet player or something like that?

Actually, I think you are correct.
Rob Halford - Vocals (1973-1991, 2003-current)
Glenn Tipton - Guitar (1974-current)
Kenneth 'K.K.' Downing - Guitar (1969-current)
Ian Hill - Bass (1969-current)
Scott Travis - Drums (1989-current)

Thats what I said. Read my posts for once damnit.

Eyesore wrote:

manny wrote:

I have to agree with ULT on this one way Spec, AC/DC had a vocalist before Bon Scott named Dave Evans who was fired to make way for Bon Scott. For years Dave Evans has been using his some amount of time with AC/DC to further his career. He did record on few demos and a single of "Can I sit Next to You, Girl" but AC/DC's original singer is Bon Scott, it was he who helped put AC/DC on the map and if they held on Dave Evans they wouldnot have made it out of bars they were playing in.

Dave Evans may deserve a small mention in the history of AC/DC since he appeared on a single and their first television appearance, but AC/DC's original frontman is Bon Scott. Same thing with Alan Atkins, he was there during Judas Priest's formative days but it was Rob Halford that they made their first official recordings with. The Priest did record song co written by Atkins "Victim of Changes" but if the Priest had retained him over Halford metal history would not be the same.

That doesn't make sense. If you have a child that is stillborn or dies shortly after birth, do you consider your next child that lives to be your first child? Bon Scott was not AC/DCs original vocalist. It's factually impossible.

Angus won't even acknowledge Dave Evans as even a singer, as far as the band is concerned the real birth of AC/DC began when Bon Scott joined.

Eyesore wrote:

Being the recognized original vocalist is different. There is nothing wrong with people recognizing Bon as the original vocalist. Most people probably have no idea someone came before him. In fact, a lot of people probably have no idea that Brian Johnson isn't their first singer.

This last point is sadly a fact to newer AC/DC fans.

ultmetal wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

All in all i just wish IE would take a step back and rework the magic that was Stormrider, Burnt Offerings, Dark Saga, Something Wicked. I feel Jon is trying too hard to write epic songs filled with all these compositions.

I was listening to The Crucible of Man this afternoon, and it got me thinking. If Jon had trimmed the fat off the album and off Framing Armageddon, you'd be left with one hell of a strong Iced Earth record.

1. Something Wicked Pt. 1
2. Motivation of Man / Setian Massacre (Matt version)
3. A Charge to Keep (Matt)
4. Ten Thousand Strong
5. The Clouding (Matt)
6. The Domino Decree
7. Framing Armageddon
8. When Stars Collide
9. Behold The Wicked Child
10. A Gift Or A Cure
11. I Walk Alone
12. Harbringer of Fate
13. Crucify the King
14. Divide and Devour
15. Come What May

If you cut down a few of the songs that drag on a bit ('Come What May' for instance), it'd be just about the right size for one album. There were a few things left off Framing that are good, but I wanted to get a fairly even split of the two albums. I also just used the Matt versions of some songs out of personal preference. I feel I should add that I just made this playlist on iTunes and thus far, it works quite well. Much less filler.

EDIT: Actually, get rid of 'When Stars Collide' too.

I was just thinking about something the other day. How cool it would be if Iced Earth went out on a Something Wicked tour only playing songs from "Framing Amageddon" and "The Crucible Of Man". Let's say 8 tracks from each, with Barlow AND Tim Owens singing together on some songs. Also hearing Matt on places where Ripper was originally and vice versa. That would be cool.

I think I'd actually demand my money back if they only played songs from Framing and Crucible.

Smindas wrote:

I think I'd actually demand my money back if they only played songs from Framing and Crucible.

Umm yeah, not playing anything off of at least Burnt Offerings would be a crime!

MetalH wrote:

Smindas wrote:

I think I'd actually demand my money back if they only played songs from Framing and Crucible.

Umm yeah, not playing anything off of at least Burnt Offerings would be a crime!

Yeah, it just stroke me for a second. But it definetely would have been cooler to do that rather than having to listen to the WHOLE "Framing" or "Crucible" in concert.

Framing is the IE album I listen to the least... It's a good album, but it doesn't draw me back for more listens like Burnt Offerings or Something Wicked do.

kmorg wrote:

I agree with Spec here. Of course Dave was an original member of Metalica! Heck, his songs are featured on 3 of their albums! Same goes for Al Atkins in Priest. He even gave the band their name.

If we're going to get technical...Dave was not the original guitarist for Metallica, that would be Lloyd Grant. That's how silly this whole thing has gotten.

Quote :

If we're going to get technical...Dave was not the original guitarist for Metallica, that would be Lloyd Grant. That's how silly this whole thing has gotten.

Facts aren't silly. Someone ignoring them and making up their own history is.

spectrefate wrote:

Quote :

If we're going to get technical...Dave was not the original guitarist for Metallica, that would be Lloyd Grant. That's how silly this whole thing has gotten.

Facts aren't silly. Someone ignoring them and making up their own history is.

What like....revisionist metal history, or something like that?

MetalRob331 wrote:

All in all i just wish IE would take a step back and rework the magic that was Stormrider, Burnt Offerings, Dark Saga, Something Wicked. I feel Jon is trying too hard to write epic songs filled with all these compositions.

Amen!

The songs on the last 3 albums have been as bloated as the last several Blind Guardian albums IMO. Jon, go back to being Iced Earth and stop bringing the Demons and Wizards influence to IE.

If Jon didn't do what he's done with the last few albums, you guys would be complaining that he's treading water, rehashing the same things. Fan will never be pleased after a certain point. If a band goes left, fans shout right, and vice versa. Jon got Tim in the band, fans complained and demanded Matt return. Matt returns, fans complain and say Tim got shafted by that egomaniac Jon Schaffer. It's a joke.

Eyesore wrote:

If Jon didn't do what he's done with the last few albums, you guys would be complaining that he's treading water, rehashing the same things. Fan will never be pleased after a certain point. If a band goes left, fans shout right, and vice versa. Jon got Tim in the band, fans complained and demanded Matt return. Matt returns, fans complain and say Tim got shafted by that egomaniac Jon Schaffer. It's a joke.

It's all about the music, I could care less about who is singing on it or not. Yes, I prefer Matt by a mile but look at what he did with IE. The joke is Jon trying to be a composer and not a guitarist. He is known for his triplet riffs and rhythm playing.

I don't complain about the music I either like it or I don't, there is no in between. There catalog contains some of my fav albums Dark Saga and SWTWC. I never expected them to top those two albums.

Eyesore wrote:

Fan will never be pleased after a certain point. If a band goes left, fans shout right, and vice versa. Jon got Tim in the band, fans complained and demanded Matt return. Matt returns, fans complain and say Tim got shafted by that egomaniac Jon Schaffer. It's a joke.

I agree to a certain point, fans donot like their bands to change directions too much, look what happened to the careers (at least Stateside) of Queen, Def Leppard, and Scorpions when they changed musicial direction in the 80's and 90's, fans abandoned them and complained they were too commerical or too different or whatever , but if they had recreated Hysteria, or Love at First Sting than fans would smurfette that it was more of the same. Rush seem to be one of few expections to this rule, since fans expect Rush to change musicial direction.

MetalRob331 wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

If Jon didn't do what he's done with the last few albums, you guys would be complaining that he's treading water, rehashing the same things. Fan will never be pleased after a certain point. If a band goes left, fans shout right, and vice versa. Jon got Tim in the band, fans complained and demanded Matt return. Matt returns, fans complain and say Tim got shafted by that egomaniac Jon Schaffer. It's a joke.

It's all about the music, I could care less about who is singing on it or not. Yes, I prefer Matt by a mile but look at what he did with IE. The joke is Jon trying to be a composer and not a guitarist. He is known for his triplet riffs and rhythm playing.

I don't complain about the music I either like it or I don't, there is no in between. There catalog contains some of my fav albums Dark Saga and SWTWC. I never expected them to top those two albums.

Ah, the triplet playing. That's another thing that annoys me. 90% of the time when people say Jon is playing triplets, he's not. It's become this tagline for Iced Earth over the years, and most people that say this have no idea what a triplet is.

And who says Jon can't be a "composer"? What does that mean, anyway? He's Iced Earth's songwriter, always has been. Is that not composing? Or is it that, for whatever reason, Jon has to remain boxed in, stick to one style of songwriting just to please fans? Jon is talking about finely taking guitar lessons. I would imagine the Iced Earth that you all covet so much is long gone and never coming back. There will be no Burnt Offerings or Night of the Stormrider again. Time to abandon wagon, I'd say.

First let me add I have been a major fan of Iced Earth for quite a while now.

My disapointment comes from the hypocritical way Jon seems to love every member of Iced Earth and talks crap about them when they leave 5 minutes later. Sure I would rather have the truth but also maybe a little consistancy. Some of you have talked about the myth of the democratic band and shown examples of why this doesn't always work. Jon has always maintained that he admires Steve Harris of Iron maiden and see's his vision of Iced earth in a similar way to Steve's of Iron Maiden. Now, whilst it is true that Maiden have had a few line up changes Steve has shown that one person can be in control of a band but still allow other members to have their input and allow their creativity into the band, and this has been good for Maiden as look where they are now and they still produce fantastic albums.

Everyone into Iced Earth knows that this is really the Jon Schaffer band but for the most part fans don't care as it's the music that counts and it's my opinion that the music has suffered to a certian extent in recent times and I think this is down to the fact that Jon doesn't allow anyones thoughts, opinions or input into anything anymore. Since the Glorious Burden it has been obvious that no one but Jon has anything to do with the writing of any music.

Whilst the last 3/4 albums have their moments they are nothing compared to the earlier stuff. I found the Crucible of Man to be incredibly boring. despite a fantastic vocal performance from Matt. I also notice that the last few albums are missing the killer lead work and solos and the energy of albums like something wicked.

Line up changes DO affect a bands chemistry. The sooner Jon stops writing overblown epic concept albums that people really don't give a fig about the story and the sooner he get back to just simply writing killer songs the better in my opinion.

NumbskullakaNazgul wrote:

I don't understand the idea the Tim didn't fit with IE. I love The Glorious Burden, he owns on that album. I like both Matt and Tim and think Jon just needs to say he treated Tim badly. Having Matt back didn't put them back on par with their older stuff.

I think Tim sounds much stronger and more powerful on "The Glorious Burden". His voice is a bit lost in the bombastic production of "Framing Armageddon" in my opinion.

When hearing Jon talking like this I get it both ways. He seems VERY content on having everything done HIS way, but I don't think he's an ego-maniac rock star. Just a man following his vision. And it's clearly he's in a fase right now with his concept albums. Maybe this is what he needed right now, and then next time we'll see a new kick-in-the-face metal album. I admire musicians for taking different directions. And sometimes it can be just the right think to gather strength and then come bach with a blast (take Judas Priest's "Painkiller" for example).

By the way, anyone else who would've loved a new Demons & Wizards album? I for one surely would! I found the last two D&W platters to be better than the last to IE.