Let us be fair for the sake of being fair!

brokentulsa wrote:

Nationalism:  Nationalism involves “national identity” A feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects with a sentiment of superiority and possible aggression toward other countries. Nationalism puts ones country above all others in trade, politics and world rule.

That is how those with an agenda/narrative for a particular ideology define it. For example neo-Nazi groups, ANTIFA, and BLM.. It is not exclusive towards only other countries. It is inclusive to various factions within a country as well. Identity in itself is not automatically superor, aggressive, much less political.

Dictionaries also define it as...
common aspirations
Devotion/Loyalty...Patriotism
Desire for National advancement
Political independence
Policy/doctrine asserting interests both separate from other nations or the common interests of other nations.
Idiom or trait peculiar to a nation

Thanks for the clarification brokentulsa.

I actually agree with you on some points. Sorry for the sarcasm...

I’m glad you agree that we should retain borders. Without borders, there are no countries. I also strongly favor keeping cultural traditions (art, cuisine, music etc...) but the globalism thing is touchy. The world has always had trade relations with foreign lands. Most famously “the Silk Road”. There is actually a new one in the works! But the downside of globalism is unfair bad deals. The original TPP deal was a bad idea. It would have definitely ended up exporting American jobs to much cheaper labor in other countries. We need jobs here in America where the cost of living in expensive. If the housing, cost of living and such were adjusted to a more reasonable cost, then it wouldn’t matter as much. But I still think it’s important to keep Americans working. Government handouts are not good enough to sustain a quality life (unless you live in Scandinavia) but I’m still not sold on it. It can easily turn into something different (in a bad way).

I’m no fan of Bush Sr, because he has a very shady past (skull and bones and CIA), but the “one world government” I am concerned with is the situation from the book of Revelation. I believe that is the goal Bush was shooting for. One thing leads to another eventually...

Btw, I don’t identify as Evangelical. I prefer non-denomination believer.

Seems that globalism and globalization are being assumed to have the same definition, they are different.

[quote]Nationalism:  Nationalism involves “national identity” A feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects with a sentiment of superiority and possible aggression toward other countries. Nationalism puts ones country above all others in trade, politics and world rule.{quote]

This is the message I hear from Trump and his supporters and how I think they view things..

brokentulsa wrote:

 Nationalism:  Nationalism involves “national identity” A feeling that one’s country is superior to another in all respects with a sentiment of superiority and possible aggression toward other countries. Nationalism puts ones country above all others in trade, politics and world rule.

This is the message I hear from Trump and his supporters and how I think they view things..

Thinking is an opinion , opinion is not a definition in a traditional sense.
Take the word RACIST for example, everything/everyone is that it it doesn't follow a certain political agenda. A world renown Dictionary recently changed the definition of RACISM to have the word RACISM in the new definition. See the problem with that? If not, our discussion will become logical fallacies of one soft or another.

You say Trump message is possible aggression towards other countries? He wants to bring the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan, but who is blocking that?  He had cause to retaliate against Iran, but didn't. He is taking military out of Germany. He just helped negotiate a peaceful cooperation between UAE and Israel.

What is the slogan? MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

The key word is GREAT  

It is an interesting word, as it is an adjective, a noun, and an adverb. None of the definitions say it means superior in all respects.

I was referring to the idea that Trump and his supporters think America is not only the greatest country in the world but the most superior country and they tend to put us above all others.. All ludicrous ideas in my view.. but lets look at what else you said...

military... trump wants to bring them out of the middle east ONLY because its an election year and ONLY because it was a campaign promise 3 years ago...He is the commander so whats stopping him... The answer is as normal he is telling a lie and has no intention of doing it. As for Germany its not about pulling troops out but more about him "punishing" Germany because to be blunt they don't put up with his crap and have attacked him verbally in the press.. Regardless of what Trump says or thinks Germany is a one of Americas great allies ...

Make America Great Again... wtf.. America wasn't great to begin with and he did nothing to make it get there for the average blue collar worker or citizen. He didn't bring any company's back from over seas, He didn't help create good jobs with great pay and good benefits like he promised, he started a trade war that has destroyed America (not helped it), He has destroyed the EPA, he Completely lied about Covid and is now trying to defend the lie that he admits he told (A lie that has sickened and killed thousands), he has put tariffs on our Allies, he has destroyed the republican party to the point that half of them are saying to vote Biden.. really, you think that is acceptable..

American right-wingers just don't like facts. It's a very inconvenient hurdle for them.  

I really too wonder what era they are referring to with that slogan. What "great" time are you actually talking about?

I can think of one particularly great era where the States enjoyed widespread prosperity and rising wages - post WWII and the New Deal coalition. Eisenhower, an old-school moderate republican (a concept that pretty much doesn't exist anymore) did not attempt to reverse New Deal programs such as regulation of business and support for labor unions; he expanded social security and built the interstate highway system.

Simply put, the republicans that are kept in mind and referred to initially in this thread when defending the party are far and away removed from today's contemporary namesakes.

You guys watch too much corporate news, do some real research and think for yourself.

Having a President keep campaign promises is now a bad thing

The separation of powers between state and federal government is a very interesting thing. Research it, then get back to me as to who/whom had authority to do what regarding WuFlu and where blame should actually go.

The WuFlu is bad for the elderly and those with a comorbidity. First the news cycle focused on death rates. It was comparable to influenza and then lowered. Check out CDC statistics. Now the news cycle focuses on cases. How many are true positive? How many will be hospitalized? How many are a symptomatic? Only 6-9 % of all WuFlu deaths were from WuFlu alone. the rest of the deaths include comorbidity and/or intentional/unintentional injury. Again CDC statistics.

Also go and look at the statistics from just about every state health department in America since March 2020.... Death for influenza, pneumonia, heart disease, diabetes complications are almost non-existent. If you can't grasp the significance of see the correlation?

I don't think, I know America is great! Why? The Constitution... the liberty and freedom bestowed on us within our Rights as Americans. Nowhere else does it exist on this planet. Too many are willing to give those rights away by allowing the government to take them so they can have this false sense of being/feeling safe.

One final thought, if America sucks as bad as you say, why are millions of people from everywhere else wanting to come here?

Is our nation perfect? nope
Term limits, getting rid of career politicians (Republican & Democrat), and smaller government is a start.

Let's hope the Commies don't win, but however it turns ouf... We get what we deserve.

"WuFlu", "Commies", - Yeah, we ain't getting anywhere with you.

Maybe you should do some brief research on the term "communism". '

I see you haven't really wanted to answer the other critiques of your current president, fx. regarding the military. Where exactly do you get your information? Since you have these ideas about your current administration, I'm quite keen to know.

You are rightfully skeptical about mainstream/corporate media in your country - however, it is incomparable to our mainstream news in many respects. It's not my only source, though.

You might want to read up on a few other constitutions if you think your American one is so damn unique. Granted, your country was the first (and I think technically only) state to completely separate church and state on a federal/governmental level, since fx. Denmark still has a state church - in practice though, it's more than fair to say that religion plays a (sadly) much larger role in public discourse and policy in the United States, seeing as individual states can differ widely from each other. In Denmark, it plays none. At all. If you mention the bible or any religious passage in support of an argument in an interview, you're pretty much dead and buried.  

Just what are these freedoms you supposedly have that I don't enjoy as well?

On a cheeky side-note, I can have a beer on the street at age sixteen, I won't ever have to worry about student loan debt (unless I'm stupid), positive social mobility is a much more realistic outcome for people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and  medical bills/premiums/co-pays/college tuition are non-existent concepts (excluding dental).

Oh, but gosh darn it, I may never become a multi-billionaire. Rats.

I also live in one of the top-5 least corrupt countries in the world (we've traded off 1st/2nd/3rd place with a few other Nordic countries) according to official CPI scores (USA is in the mid-20s).

I feel pretty damn free.

Have you had the WuFlu yet? You seem a bit delirious. (Is that cheeky?)

I’m curious where you get your news and why do you think it’s accurate (not biased)?

50% of everything you say is basically an anti-Christianity rant. Why is someone buried if they mention Christianity in a argument? Many aspects of the Bible are good and useful in society (do unto others... love thy neighbor). Someone can mention the Bible and also use information from science at the same time. Unless you are talking about the origin of life and universe. That is just theory. Nothing has ever been observed to come to life from a state of nothingness.

Luckily for you, Denmark isn’t a communist country. As you know, it operates as a parliamentary constitutional monarchy. It’s known for having a admired and very successful national welfare system that includes: jobless benefits, universal healthcare, and retirement benefits. That is good!

But why do you defend communism? When most people mention communism, they are talking about the Stalinist Marxism model. Where the worker bees work to merely survive... and they still have their “elites” that have incredible wealth. What’s wrong with the American model of capitalism that gives everyone the chance to do very well and achieve wealth? Our biggest problem here is our healthcare system. It’s all corporate and controlled by the “big pharma” entities.

I'm not defending communism at all. I'm stating my discontent with it being used incorrectly. James B refers to Biden and the Democrats (or the left in America in general) as "commies", when the policies behind have absolutely nothing to do with it. I was just voicing my annoyance at these terms/trigger words being slung around willy nilly by people who most often don't even have a basic understanding of their meaning (at least that is what I assume when they use it as incorrectly as they do).

There's nothing wrong with the classic model of American capitalism - but sadly, that is not what we're seeing today, and haven't in a long time. It has all been taken over by crony capitalism, money corrupting politics and policies favouring corporations. Trickle-down economics can work in theory, but it's been used as a smokescreen by republicans who don't follow through on its supposed ideals. The American Dream is dead. The middle class has shrunk and continues to get screwed.

I would love to see an honest debate in your country, but as long as there is money in your politics, you can never truly have one.

I'm not really sure if much of what I say is anti-Christianity, so much as it is an opposition to what I see as using religion as an excuse for screwing with people's civil rights - all based on cherry-picked passages. Believe whatever you want, but keep it out of other people's lives.

What I meant by one being "dead and buried" is not so much that we don't tolerate religion, I was just trying to address how even though America is officially the only completely non-religious state (I think), religion plays a much larger and acceptable role in public discourse. It would feel very weird and inappropriate to hear a Danish politician referencing god and bible passages in a speech. Abortion, for example, is not a hotly controversial topic in our society, because we base our laws solely on civil rights and science.

I agree that your healthcare system by far your biggest problem. You seem to be for a universal healthcare system, so I don't understand your opposition to the politicians in your country (not Biden) who actually want to implement it. If you would cut even what amounts to a fraction of your already inflated and over-the-top military budget, you could pay for healthcare and even free college. I don't have the numbers and it's obviously more complicated than that, but it always grates on my nerves whenever people go, "how are you going to pay for it!?" - the same people who cheer for an endless increase in military spending - no one ever asks about that, do they? They'll find that money, regardless of what it does to the deficit. It's not even constructive, you already have more than you know what to do with in that area.

As for where I get my news, other than the news I get from Danish/German television, I follow a few American online news shows like the Young Turks and Ring of Fire - granted, they're progressive outlets, but they're honest about it and from what I gather, they try to be as fair as possible and always give credit where it is due. You may call them biased, but I have yet to see any show that is as balanced as those (in America). I don't agree with everything and only really follow certain people. They always site their sources and I do check up on it from time to time - oftentimes I'll see similar stories from several other outlets, so I'm generally confident in their validity. It may seem provoking, but misinformation/ignorance is much more of a right-wing problem. Are there ridiculous, smug, SJW hippie pricks that I can't stand? Absolutely. Other than that, I'm quite historically/sociologically interested, so I read a lot about the histories of different countries, biographies as well as trying to educate myself, at least on an elementary level, about different economic and societal systems.

I love America (well, the version/portion I've been exposed to) - it's a great country to visit and live in as a child in a family that doesn't struggle economically. I lived is Easley, South Carolina as an expat with my family in the early nineties. I've also lived in Slovenia and most recently Beijing and try to travel as much as I can. Which is why I'm glad I have Denmark as a base, since that keeps me as secure as possible so I can spend as much time away from the boring-ass place it is, haha.

As far as words being thrown around... here in America, we do say things sometimes in a loose blanketed fashion. We have slang that is not “dead on accurate”, but it gets the point across. A commie can refer to a person who doesn’t want American constitutional rights or freedoms.

I mostly agree with you about the current model of capitalism being dominated by corporate scum, but I wouldn’t say it’s dead yet... the middle class is down but not completely out. I hope someone or something can help reverse it. Our healthcare is complete crap! I wouldn’t mind universal healthcare, but I don’t want to completely delve all the way socialist. Say what you want about Trump, but there has never been a president in modern history that has got more campaign promises accomplished than him. Biden is horrible! He is another lame duck career politician that has literally done nothing good in his 47 years in politics. He’s suffering symptoms of dementia and has a reputation of perversion that rivals or exceeds everything the dems have accused Trump of. Just listen to him talk... he can barely finish a sentence or a thought. Why would anyone trust him with any decision making? He’s just a feeble puppet that “doesn’t rock the boat” and does whatever he’s told. The perfect puppet...
Who’s in control? When everything goes too smoothly, you know something is wrong. That’s why Obama did well. He was a cog in the machine of the elite. Submissive leaders are the shills.

As far as military spending... It’s unfortunately a necessary evil. If we were to cut back and downsize, do you think China and Russia will do the same? There has to be balance. If we become weak, China and Russia will conquer us.

Damn OCD! I had to come back to correct my spelling 7 times!

Mglaffas81 wrote:

"WuFlu", "Commies", - Yeah, we ain't getting anywhere with you.

Maybe you should do some brief research on the term "communism". '

I see you haven't really wanted to answer the other critiques of your current president, fx. regarding the military. Where exactly do you get your information? Since you have these ideas about your current administration, I'm quite keen to know.

You are rightfully skeptical about mainstream/corporate media in your country - however, it is incomparable to our mainstream news in many respects. It's not my only source, though.

You might want to read up on a few other constitutions if you think your American one is so damn unique. Granted, your country was the first (and I think technically only) state to completely separate church and state on a federal/governmental level, since fx. Denmark still has a state church - in practice though, it's more than fair to say that religion plays a (sadly) much larger role in public discourse and policy in the United States, seeing as individual states can differ widely from each other. In Denmark, it plays none. At all. If you mention the bible or any religious passage in support of an argument in an interview, you're pretty much dead and buried.  

Just what are these freedoms you supposedly have that I don't enjoy as well?

On a cheeky side-note, I can have a beer on the street at age sixteen, I won't ever have to worry about student loan debt (unless I'm stupid), positive social mobility is a much more realistic outcome for people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and  medical bills/premiums/co-pays/college tuition are non-existent concepts (excluding dental).

Oh, but gosh darn it, I may never become a multi-billionaire. Rats.

I also live in one of the top-5 least corrupt countries in the world (we've traded off 1st/2nd/3rd place with a few other Nordic countries) according to official CPI scores (USA is in the mid-20s).

I feel pretty damn free.

1) who is we in your first sentence? If "you" actually believed there isn't getting anywhere with me, why bother with such a long response, if any?
2) Wuflu refers to origin and the virus being respiratory in nature. Don't give rat's @$$ if calling it that offends anyone.
3) COMMIE is an American euphemism that is inclusive but not specific to the terms Marxist, Communist, and Socialist.
4)Trump and the military, he removed troops from Syria he reduced the number of troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan and wants to remove them complete!y, but House Democrats are restricting it.
5) I can't speak for your media, yet you posted about Trump's comment regarding the military in The Atlantic that has been debunked. 2 unconfirmed sources versus 10 people going on record 8 who were actually present pretty much confirms you watched take news someplace/somewhere?
6) our Constitution is unique like you said cause of it being first. I am not sure if other nation's constitutions include individual rights being granted directly from the Creator?
7) people in the USA with tuition debt signed the paperwork themselves, so they are responsible for the problem. The Administration before the current one made guarantees regarding college loans which made tuitions skyrocket.
Comparing Denmark to the USA i
Regarding healthcare is tricky. It is great you don't have to worry about it, but there are some very important aspects to consider. The population of Denmark compared to the USA. The GDP of both countries, and the fact that Denmark doesn't have to deal with regulatory requirements from local, state and federal bureaucracies in the healthcare industry.
9) cool Denmark isn't corrupt as other nations are. Is is based per capita, on actual conviction versus occurrence of specific to What is or isn't legal from country to country.

Also what made America a great is that people from all over this planet have emigrated here, assimilated and became productive members of society. That dynamic is changing and it shows.

In closing, it was great of America and it's citizens to sacrifice life and resources liberating Denmark & the rest of Europe during the mid 40's. So remember why you are currently feeling pretty free.

As far as cherry picked bible verses... How else do you apply the Bible? There are anecdotes and answers scattered everywhere within it. You can’t just open it and hope the topic at hand is conveniently there. You have to skip around to find things. Just like any school or instruction book.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

James B refers to Biden and the Democrats (or the left in America in general) as "commies", when the policies behind have absolutely nothing to do with it.

IMHDO
Based on the fact that Biden staff & Kamala Harris supported and encouraged the bail funds for rioters/looters associated with both BLM and ANTIFA, neither Biden, Hzrris, or other Democrats condemning the violence/killing of people and destruction of property by BLM & ANTIFA, both of which are self proclaimed Marxist Orginizations, the failure of Democrat D.A to prosecute rioters/looters in cities where riots/looting have been occurring, the same D.I'd that had millions financed by George Soros to their elections, the infiltration of Marxist politicians into the city council of Minneapolis, Portland, and Seattle, the unconstitutional mandates and laws forced on citizens by Democrat Governors during the "pandemic" the laws in California repealing interpretation legislagtion, the censorship of any information that doesn't fit the agenda/narrative of the news media and tech corporations that are totally left wing in their politics, the infiltration of socialist/marxist,doctrine in our Republic school and university systems, and that the majority of fund donated to HIM (over 3 Billion dollars) has been funneled to the END through ActBlue.

The Republicans are just as bad for the most part, at least they are not racist calling everyone/everything else racist.

Corruption, greed, and the us versus them mentality is ruining our country, of course IMHDO

In addition, the tactics, propaganda, and ideologies coming from certain factions terrorizing certain cities in our country mirror those utilized by Mao Tse -tung, Hitler, and Mussolini during their overthrow and taking power.

Notice where all the rioting, looting, and violence is taking place, Democrat ran $h!t-holes... Only cause it was allowed to happen and financed by billionaires & politicians in bed with Chi-Com Party. All propagated by corporate media, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and professional sports leagues. Follow the $

The perfect storm.

brokentulsa wrote:

He didn't bring any company's back from over seas, He didn't help create good jobs with great pay and good benefits like he promised, he started a trade war that has destroyed America (not helped it), He has destroyed the EPA, he Completely lied about Covid and is now trying to defend the lie that he admits he told (A lie that has sickened and killed thousands), he has put tariffs on our Allies, he has destroyed the republican party to the point that half of them are saying to vote Biden.. really, you think that is acceptable..

Check out Bureau of Labor Statistics for into on increase of manufacturing job rate, best in 30 years. More people are working than ever before, especially minorities. Except policies in Democrat governed states shut down The economy. I already recommended you read about The separation of powers in the Constitution and see that Trump  or any President had no control over The way individual states govern themselves. Shows how stupid Biden is by saying he'd implement a nationwide mask mandate of elected, funny that people applauded him, too dumb to know that he couldn't.

Give me proof The trade war with China ruined America? China wasn't honoring the real in place. Tariffs even The playing field.  If you can raise The cost of doing business by increasing either wages of workers manufacturing or he cost of exporting goods, you gain bargaining power in that market. Funny you mention good paying jobs with good benefits, guess how that happens? Some people hate Trump so much, they fail to see The big picture, much less understand how business works.

The federal, state, and local government can mandate minimum wage and benefit requirements for businesses, we have seen how that worked out with employees having hours cut to not qualify for benefits, the number of employees a business employs shrinking to cover the cost of higher minimum wages, and of course, the rising cost of services/products coinciding with mandated increases.

The Status Quo in Washington DC needs to be destroyed, the Republicans are just as much the problem as the Democrats (IMHO). Why do you think Trump is getting so much resistance?  He can be an @$$, he isn't perfect, at least he is trying to drain the swamp. Imagine what could've been accomplished if the Legislative Branch did their job and  not waste time a d money (on the taxpayer dime) with B/S.  Just think, if the career politicians will lie, cheat, and steal with reckless abandon just to keep power, what exactly is that power, and how does it effect us...  The everyday Joe's you mentioned?  Remember, the Constitution says the power belongs to the people. Can you honestly look at what's going on and not see there is something terribly wrong?

Talk about unacceptable

This thread is a nightmare.

Quote :

I already recommended you read about The separation of powers in the Constitution and see that Trump  or any President had no control over The way individual states govern themselves. Shows how stupid Biden is by saying he'd implement a nationwide mask mandate of elected, funny that people applauded him, too dumb to know that he couldn't.

So you are talking about states rights? What a interesting subject and one that has been heavily debated in courts over the last few years.. In fact every month lawsuits are being filed over this issue... What about Trumps executive orders? Couldn't Biden issue an executive order making mask mandatory nationwide or are you saying that congress would have to create a mandatory mask law?

BrokenTulsa:

I am talking about the 10th amendment, and the rights of the state's adhere to the Constitution. The Governors have power in the individual states. So if a President wanted to say mandate a policy,it would be individually with each state's Governor. Some could say no or yes.

Congress would have to change or appeal the 10th Amendment by 2/3 vote and the individual states would then have to ratify it by 3/4 vote.

An Executive Order manages operations of the Federal Government. It's legal or Constitutional basis is defined in Article 2 of the Constitution. Aspects of delighted legislation and judicial review apply.

So to answer your question, a national mask mandate could not be done by executive order. Just like Trump could not order a national lockdown or remove one in an individual state by executive order.

I’m glad the forefathers gave us multiple barriers against tyranny. They knew better after escaping the old British monarchy. We are unique with our Congress, individual state rights etc...

The only problem is that there is corruption and dark influencers behind the scenes. I can only hope we can have a good balance of people that want to actually do the jobs they were sworn to do.

Troublezone wrote:

I’m glad the forefathers gave us multiple barriers against tyranny. They knew better after escaping the old British monarchy. We are unique with our Congress, individual state rights etc...

The only problem is that there is corruption and dark influencers behind the scenes. I can only hope we can have a good balance of people that want to actually do the jobs they were sworn to do.

Corruption is rampant
IMHDO, censorship and all the fear mongering iis keeping people from truth. No matter how much insight the forefathers possessed, I don't think they considered how brainwashing could implode their founding principles from the inside out. You can't legislate morality, ethics is another thing altogether. Scratch my head that most don't know the difference, but What can you do?

Compromise is a thing of the past in our current system.

The largest redistribution of wealth happened earlier this year and people were excited about a check in the mail, oblivious to What took place before their very eyes. The stupidity of our people is appalling, regardless of political affiliations. They are too blind to see, or don't want to see what they are giving up.... Just to get a warm fuzzy feeling from "my side won" or "look at me, I'm so this and that".

Look at what we handed over already, just for the illusion of safety. Half the country more of less digs living every aspect of life based on feelings, and act like children when they don't get their way. Yeah, let's hand the country over to that.

Stepping off soapbox.... Laterz

When Nixon took us off the gold standard was also a major mistake for the monetary system. Printing a bunch of paper money that has nothing substantial to back it up. Now they claim we have a coin shortage.