Best and worst era of metal?

I like music from a lot of different eras. Not just metal either. Every era has it's good & bad, I'm not so sure you can compare music in that fashion. Sure, nostalgia plays a big part in your preferences, but that doesn't mean that a particular era had nothing to offer.

Since I listen mostly to prog and European power metal, the 90s was a good decade for me as that's when both genres really took off. It was also the decade when I became a metal fan, so there's a bit of nostalgia there as well.

But if you were to look beyond just the music being produced, I'd say that now is the best era for metal. It's far easier to discover new bands, hear what they sound like and then buy their albums than it was 10-15 years ago because of the Internet, and I'd have missed out on a lot of good music without it.

Vexer6 wrote:

I would most definitely not call Soundgarden or AIC metal in any way.

Ultramega OK?
Louder than Love?
Badmotorfinger?

Witchfinder wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

If anything, grunge ruined rock music. It was the last good thing in mainstream rock music, but basically everything it influenced was crap.

What is the "central ethos of metal" btw?


P.S.
Why do people feel the need to capitalize genres?   

I capitalize genres to indicate I am talking about a type of music rather than a generic thing.  

What is a "generic thing" supposed to mean?
And why do you not capitalize grunge and hip-hop then?

Hey Hicks

But Nirvana were Punk

  

If any proof were needed, a little reminder

Nirvana is definitely punk. There is no question there.

I'm no expert on grunge, and the only one of the big four I really ever had a huge interest in is Nirvana. I dug on AiC a little with their first 2 albums. Always hated Pearl Jam, and still do. I used to really dislike Soundgarden, but I've come to appreciate them (still loathe Black Hole Sun though).

But the weird thing about grunge, to me, is that the term describes such a broad group of bands. I guess it really seems to be more about location/era than music style, because none of the big four really sound the same to me. Soundgarden and AiC probably being the closest in style. Pearl Jam is the only one that really defines what the term 'grunge' would evoke, to my brain.

Like any sub-genre of metal, I'm sure there are hundreds of B, C, and Z-grade grunge bands that were all jumping on that bandwagon at the time, and which nowadays fans of the genre are scouring the internet for...but I can't speak to those bands, as I've never cared to go looking for them. Mother Love Bone was pretty rad though, I have since discovered.

And I have no problem with 100% excluding any of the grunge bands or the nu metal bands from actually being metal. I think Witchfinder's comment about nu metal being a mix of the angst of grunge, mixed with hip hop, etc, is pretty spot on. Me not liking "Nookie" has nothing to do with me not considering it metal (though I do not care if someone else wants to call it metal--call whatever you want metal, no skin off my nose). And for the grunge bands...well, at the time, at least, I bet any of them would have scoffed at you if you tried to call them metal.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

If anything, grunge ruined rock music. It was the last good thing in mainstream rock music, but basically everything it influenced was crap.

What is the "central ethos of metal" btw?


P.S.
Why do people feel the need to capitalize genres?   

I capitalize genres to indicate I am talking about a type of music rather than a generic thing.  

What is a "generic thing" supposed to mean?
And why do you not capitalize grunge and hip-hop then?

I think I did capitalize Grunge but I may have missed it. The same with Hip-Hop. Obviously the words metal and grunge mean other things besides music and aren't capitalized in that case. This is what I meant by "generic thing." Ie - grunge is a word for dirt or soil and metal is a compound or alloy. Get it?

Maybe the label Grunge is more like the label NWOBHM. There really isn't a "NWOBHM sound" per se, but it's rather a large group of bands that comprised an identifiable musical movement. Grunge could be thought of in the same way. There are lots of Grunge bands, but they obviously don't all sound alike. Also, maybe it's more helpful to think of Grunge on a spectrum from "Most Metallic" to "Not At All Metallic" with AIC being at the "Most Metallic" end and then on down the line. Just some thoughts.

By Witchfinders definition of metal, they were definitely not metal, none of them, the whole scene was actively not that.

But there was some cool heavy music in there (which is my preference anyway)

Boris2008 wrote:

By Witchfinders definition of metal, they were definitely not metal, none of them, the whole scene was actively not that.

But there was some cool heavy music in there (which is my preference anyway)

Well my definition is most likely wrong anyway!   

Witchfinder wrote:

Maybe the label Grunge is more like the label NWOBHM.  There really isn't a "NWOBHM sound" per se, but it's rather a large group of bands that comprised an identifiable musical movement.  Grunge could be thought of in the same way.  There are lots of Grunge bands, but they obviously don't all sound alike.  Also, maybe it's more helpful to think of Grunge on a spectrum from "Most Metallic" to "Not At All Metallic" with AIC being at the "Most Metallic" end and then on down the line.  Just some thoughts.  

I pretty agree with you on all of this. but IMO the "most metallic" of Grunge was Soundgarden. I have actually never heard much of Grunge, but back then I kindda liked some Nirvana songs , but it was certainly not my cup of tea ... BUT

GRUNGE IS NOT NOYT NOT METAL thats pretty much my point of view , I think its a OFFENSE to say grunge is "metal" but its OK to say that Grunge is Rock. good rock ? I don´t think so , but there are some bands/songs that can save the bunch , but I don´t care about them. Metal is my thing.

I hate getting into these distinctions, but nobody questions including "Load" and "Reload" as metal albums and I challenge anyone to tell me that Badmotorfinger or even Nevermind don't blow them out of the water on the "heavy" front.

Full disclosure: I like both Load and Reload, but to dismiss grunge albums from consideration as metal while accepting 90s fare from metal bands that was a lot more milktoast doesn't ring true to me.

Speaking as a recovering teenage grunge fanatic, I will say that the tired sales slogan of "grunge saved rock" can die in a ditch and I would be much happier for it. I think the music would get a much more honest appraisal if some mook from a music rag wasn't either pushing that party line or having an allergic reaction to it every time someone brings up the 90s.

In terms of 90's bands that kind of distanced themselves from trad metal attitudes, Smashing Pumpkins were definitely the ones who didn't mind throwing a few metal shapes!



Plus Billy is wearing a cape. That's pretty metal!   

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that, before he went all shoegaze, Corgan was a huge shred-head as a guitarist.

Runicen wrote:

I seem to remember hearing somewhere that, before he went all shoegaze, Corgan was a huge shred-head as a guitarist.

I doubt that. He probably liked some metal though. You're probably thinking of the singer from Weezer. Now that band Avant Garde that he was in had some amazing stuff.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Nirvana is definitely punk. There is no question there.

I'm no expert on grunge, and the only one of the big four I really ever had a huge interest in is Nirvana. I dug on AiC a little with their first 2 albums. Always hated Pearl Jam, and still do. I used to really dislike Soundgarden, but I've come to appreciate them (still loathe Black Hole Sun though).

But the weird thing about grunge, to me, is that the term describes such a broad group of bands. I guess it really seems to be more about location/era than music style, because none of the big four really sound the same to me. Soundgarden and AiC probably being the closest in style. Pearl Jam is the only one that really defines what the term 'grunge' would evoke, to my brain.

Like any sub-genre of metal, I'm sure there are hundreds of B, C, and Z-grade grunge bands that were all jumping on that bandwagon at the time, and which nowadays fans of the genre are scouring the internet for...but I can't speak to those bands, as I've never cared to go looking for them. Mother Love Bone was pretty rad though, I have since discovered.

And I have no problem with 100% excluding any of the grunge bands or the nu metal bands from actually being metal. I think Witchfinder's comment about nu metal being a mix of the angst of grunge, mixed with hip hop, etc, is pretty spot on. Me not liking "Nookie" has nothing to do with me not considering it metal (though I do not care if someone else wants to call it metal--call whatever you want metal, no skin off my nose). And for the grunge bands...well, at the time, at least, I bet any of them would have scoffed at you if you tried to call them metal.

Wouldn't really call them punk, but they're definately closer to that than to stoner rock.

As for the bands not sounding like each other, that's true, just like it was the case with glam metal before that.

Witchfinder wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

If anything, grunge ruined rock music. It was the last good thing in mainstream rock music, but basically everything it influenced was crap.

What is the "central ethos of metal" btw?


P.S.
Why do people feel the need to capitalize genres?

I capitalize genres to indicate I am talking about a type of music rather than a generic thing.

What is a "generic thing" supposed to mean?
And why do you not capitalize grunge and hip-hop then?

I think I did capitalize Grunge but I may have missed it. The same with Hip-Hop. Obviously the words metal and grunge mean other things besides music and aren't capitalized in that case. This is what I meant by "generic thing." Ie - grunge is a word for dirt or soil and metal is a compound or alloy. Get it?

I do, however it's still incorrect. And I'd wager that even if you asked some random guy about grunge today, his first association would be the early '90s rock/metal movement from Seattle rather than dirt or soil. It's a homonym.

ze_mau wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Maybe the label Grunge is more like the label NWOBHM. There really isn't a "NWOBHM sound" per se, but it's rather a large group of bands that comprised an identifiable musical movement. Grunge could be thought of in the same way. There are lots of Grunge bands, but they obviously don't all sound alike. Also, maybe it's more helpful to think of Grunge on a spectrum from "Most Metallic" to "Not At All Metallic" with AIC being at the "Most Metallic" end and then on down the line. Just some thoughts.

I pretty agree with you on all of this. but IMO the "most metallic" of Grunge was Soundgarden. I have actually never heard much of Grunge, but back then I kindda liked some Nirvana songs , but it was certainly not my cup of tea ... BUT

GRUNGE IS NOT NOYT NOT METAL thats pretty much my point of view , I think its a OFFENSE to say grunge is "metal" but its OK to say that Grunge is Rock. good rock ? I don´t think so , but there are some bands/songs that can save the bunch , but I don´t care about them. Metal is my thing.

Well how can you say that grunge is "NOT NOYT NOT METAL" if you haven't heard a lot of it? The Melvins, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were certainly metal - others, not so much.
And why would it be offense to say grunge is "metal" (even though it would be incorrect, but people here seem to have no problem mislabeling certain bands as metal just because the press called them so at some point)?

Runicen wrote:

I hate getting into these distinctions, but nobody questions including "Load" and "Reload" as metal albums and I challenge anyone to tell me that Badmotorfinger or even Nevermind don't blow them out of the water on the "heavy" front.

Full disclosure: I like both Load and Reload, but to dismiss grunge albums from consideration as metal while accepting 90s fare from metal bands that was a lot more milktoast doesn't ring true to me.

Speaking as a recovering teenage grunge fanatic, I will say that the tired sales slogan of "grunge saved rock" can die in a ditch and I would be much happier for it.  I think the music would get a much more honest appraisal if some mook from a music rag wasn't either pushing that party line or having an allergic reaction to it every time someone brings up the 90s.

Yes, that whole "grunge saved rock" thing is sooo annoying. As is "grunge killed metal".

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I do, however it's still incorrect. And I'd wager that even if you asked some random guy about grunge today, his first association would be the early '90s rock/metal movement from Seattle rather than dirt or soil. It's a homonym.

Incorrect?  According to what?  The International Style Guide for Pedantic Discussions on Music Message Boards?

Quote :

The International Style Guide for Pedantic Discussions on Music Message Boards?

Don't joke about the I.S.G.F.P.D.O.M.M.B., man. Those mofo's have eyes EVERYWHERE... (glances about nervously)...

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

The International Style Guide for Pedantic Discussions on Music Message Boards?

Don't joke about the I.S.G.F.P.D.O.M.M.B., man. Those mofo's have eyes EVERYWHERE... (glances about nervously)...

  

I am sure some of you recall that bands such as Soundgarden, Alice In Chains and even Nirvana where at first promoted as metal artist in various mags and trade rags,

Interesting once Nirvana hit it big, suddenly they were no longer metal bands, thou most of those artist had a sizeable fanbase of metal fans.

I personally got into the so called grunge era because to me pop metal and thrash were beginning to sound stale, maybe due to the over saturation in the market of these type of bands.

I also heavily got into death metal in the 90's, but I lived in Tampa, Florida, and those types of bands were playing in every club, port-o-potty, field, garage, and empty lot in sight.

There is no doubt that the grunge bands did embrace the metal audience in the early days AIC on the Clash of the titans tour. Soundgarden supporting Voivod. In the U.K it was different, the artsy press was absolutely obsessed with the Sub Pop label and all of those bands that were on it (Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Nirvana, Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr etc) were just called Sub Pop and the fans were trendy indie types, they went completely unnoticed by metal crowds probably until Nevermind( apart from AIC on the COTT tour and they went down reeaaally badly!), which would also be around the time I heard the term grunge.

I can't quite get my head around these are they or are they not metal debates. I have my opinions but I don't really care. A great band is a great band, whether they are metal or not is irrelevant to me.

Boris2008 wrote:

I can't quite get my head around these are they or are they not metal debates. I have my opinions but I don't really care. A great band is a great band, whether they are metal or not is irrelevant to me.

Well, what else are we supposed to talk about?

As long as stuff is just in fun (which obviously was not the original poster's intent, but obviously the regular posters on this board can converse and discuss without issue), then why not discuss what is metal and what is not, or what is the best era, or what album was the best by whoever?

It's better than threads that are 7 pages full of videos, and is the reason I come to a message board like this, other than the rare once in a while when I learn about an insanely excellent band I've never encountered before.

Witchfinder wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I do, however it's still incorrect. And I'd wager that even if you asked some random guy about grunge today, his first association would be the early '90s rock/metal movement from Seattle rather than dirt or soil. It's a homonym.

Incorrect?  According to what?  The International Style Guide for Pedantic Discussions on Music Message Boards?

Grammar.

Quote :

Interesting once Nirvana hit it big, suddenly they were no longer metal bands, thou most of those artist had a sizeable fanbase of metal fans.

Kurt Cobain was once quoted as saying Nirvana were not metal,but he could see how their sound might appeal to a metal audience.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I do, however it's still incorrect. And I'd wager that even if you asked some random guy about grunge today, his first association would be the early '90s rock/metal movement from Seattle rather than dirt or soil. It's a homonym.

Incorrect?  According to what?  The International Style Guide for Pedantic Discussions on Music Message Boards?

Grammar.

No.