Official KISS Thread Pt II

ZombieHavoc wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Gene and Paul seem to be trying harder than ever to push the "KISS Brand is about the make-up and songs, not who is wearing the war paint and playing the tracks."

Definitely. They know they will be retiring semi-soon and want to make sure the money keeps rolling in with KISS II.

Sometimes I hate that I like the music KISS is currently putting out, because I don't like Gene at all. But since it's not like he's Ted Nugent or something, I still feel okay buying the records.

I got no problem buying music from a dude if his main downfall is his love of money.

  

Coming in 2025 for a long term residence on the Vegas strip - "Tommy Thayer and the Almost KISS Experience"

I was saying to my guitarist, a MASSIVE Kiss fan, back in the late 90s, that one day Gene and Paul would replace themselves and keep it going. It seemed pretty obvious that's where it was headed. It doesn't surprise me at all, though it seems to be surprising other people.

Kiss stopped being a rock band in 1977...they became a means of generating wealth at that point. It doesn't matter who's under the helmet, the team will be the team. If they have ANY kind of success at that point, it'll go on indefinitely.

Gene's been making sports-team analogies about KISS for years now...eventually we'll probably see an "American Idol" style competition to elect "KISS II."

Fat Freddy wrote:

Coming in 2025 for a long term residence on the Vegas strip - "Tommy Thayer and the Almost KISS Experience"

  

I remember as a kid in the 70's drawing pictures of KISS II with myself as "Ace"

Fat Freddy wrote:

Gene's been making sports-team analogies about KISS for years now...eventually we'll probably see an "American Idol" style competition to elect "KISS II."

Rock Star:KISS coming this summer

Not for nothin' but if the Halll of Fame hadn't been so insistent that they were *only* interested in a live appearance by the original four KISS dudes then none of this Battle of the Egos would even be happening.

There's similar drama in the Nirvana camp over their HOF induction - they got in on their first year of eligibility because their debut single came out in 1988. Dave Grohl didn't play on that single, but he's being inducted into the HOF as a Nirvana member anyway (presumably cuz he's all famous 'n' stuff) and the guy who was actually Nirvana's drummer on that single in 1988 is getting bupkus.

Anyone planning to catch Kiss on the Kiss/Def Leppard tour this summer?

I'm thinking of getting some lawn tickets for that show in Raleigh...$25 including fees on Groupon,

Yeah Gene alluded to Ace and Peter's shortcomings years ago, but still had no problem putting them back in make up in 97.   If that wouldn't have happened, Gene wouldn't be havin that conversation now with anybody.   Without Ace and Peter in 97, there would be no present day line up and Gene wouldn't have 1/10th of the wealth he now has.

Even though he is correct about both of them blowing it.  Gene would put them both back in the paint if some idiot offered KISS (Gene/Paul) 100 million to do "another reunion. farewell tour" I'd guarantee that......So take it with a grain of salt.   Correct, yes. 100 % believable, nope.

James B. wrote:

Yeah Gene alluded to Ace and Peter's shortcomings years ago, but still had no problem putting them back in make up in 97.   If that wouldn't have happened, Gene wouldn't be havin that conversation now with anybody.   Without Ace and Peter in 97, there would be no present day line up and Gene wouldn't have 1/10th of the wealth he now has.

Even though he is correct about both of them blowing it.  Gene would put them both back in the paint if some idiot offered KISS (Gene/Paul) 100 million to do "another reunion. farewell tour" I'd guarantee that......So take it with a grain of salt.   Correct, yes. 100 % believable, nope.

Spot on. Imagine if this version of the band bombed and Gene couldn't turn a profit with this line up, then someone came along and offered silly money to re-unite with Ace & Peter. Would Gene say "No, they blew it, the new guys have earned the paint"? Fact is he can still draw a good crowd without them and the other guys are cheaper and a lot less hassle.



Got to be said, they do seem to be really annoying.

Quote :

Yeah Gene alluded to Ace and Peter's shortcomings years ago, but still had no problem putting them back in make up in 97.   If that wouldn't have happened, Gene wouldn't be havin that conversation now with anybody.   Without Ace and Peter in 97, there would be no present day line up and Gene wouldn't have 1/10th of the wealth he now has.

The reunion in 1996 happened because of money. No question. It was also a business move to get Ace to sign over his make-up copyrights to Gene (Peter had done it years before). He put them back in make up to serve a purpose, "reunion tour" and make tons of cash. Were they able to keep their demons in check and keep up physically, I would bet money they'd still be there.

Ace likes to play his "I took the word 'farewell' seriously in our farewell tour" as though it's some sort of ground to stand on. Bottom line is, Ace once again failed to show up. So, they changed their minds and kept going...just because Ace didn't want to doesn't mean they can't because, guess what, Ace $OLD his stake in the band/company. He $OLD his make up, he $OLD the logo design. He has no leg to stand on, other than fan sympathy.

Gene knew exactly what he was doing when the original 4 put on the make up again. He also probably expected Ace & Peter to crap out again, which they did. But he was going to lay the necessary groundwork to be able to sustain once that happened, and he has. Tommy & Peter have going on 12 years in the band...still touring the world to adoring, screaming crowds and still making money on a brand they Gene/Paul owns...that's called smart business.

Boris is right...if Gene/Paul could not turn a profit with the Tommy/Eric line up, he'd likely do what he had to in order to turn that around...but that's not the case.

I find it funny when fans act like their "calling out" a musician for thinking about money. EVERY BAND from the pre-internet era thinks about money. That's because before the internet, these bands were these musicians' businesses...their means of making a living and generating wealth. They HAVE to think about money. It's not like they were some pure-hearted artists who didn't care about money when they were younger...many of them were self-serving addicts who could play an instrument and write a song but were not good for much else. Gene was the exception. Gene uses music like Steve Jobs used technology...to turn a profit. We all do something here to make money...let's get over ourselves, shall we?

^^ Great post.    I always have trouble putting my thoughts into words but you nailed right there Shawn. I feel the same way.

Did anyone read the article in Rolling Stone? Ace claims he only licensed his make up to KISS for x number of years... Paul says it's not true and Gene hasn't said anything on it. From Peter's book, it sounds like Ace had the better lawyer, so it's plausible. Peter sold his makeup and shares in KISS, Inc after Animalize was a hit and KISS could afford to buy him out... Ace just BS'ing like Gene or truth? Only KISS, Inc and Ace's attorney know for sure....

thejokeriv wrote:

Did anyone read the article in Rolling Stone? Ace claims he only licensed his make up to KISS for x number of years... Paul says it's not true and Gene hasn't said anything on it. From Peter's book, it sounds like Ace had the better lawyer, so it's plausible. Peter sold his makeup and shares in KISS, Inc after Animalize was a hit and KISS could afford to buy him out... Ace just BS'ing like Gene or truth? Only KISS, Inc and Ace's attorney know for sure....

I'm thinking about buying that and if I do, it will be the first and only time I ever purchased Rolling Stone.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

Yeah Gene alluded to Ace and Peter's shortcomings years ago, but still had no problem putting them back in make up in 97.   If that wouldn't have happened, Gene wouldn't be havin that conversation now with anybody.   Without Ace and Peter in 97, there would be no present day line up and Gene wouldn't have 1/10th of the wealth he now has.

The reunion in 1996 happened because of money. No question. It was also a business move to get Ace to sign over his make-up copyrights to Gene (Peter had done it years before). He put them back in make up to serve a purpose, "reunion tour" and make tons of cash. Were they able to keep their demons in check and keep up physically, I would bet money they'd still be there.

Ace likes to play his "I took the word 'farewell' seriously in our farewell tour" as though it's some sort of ground to stand on. Bottom line is, Ace once again failed to show up. So, they changed their minds and kept going...just because Ace didn't want to doesn't mean they can't because, guess what, Ace $OLD his stake in the band/company. He $OLD his make up, he $OLD the logo design. He has no leg to stand on, other than fan sympathy.

Gene knew exactly what he was doing when the original 4 put on the make up again. He also probably expected Ace & Peter to crap out again, which they did. But he was going to lay the necessary groundwork to be able to sustain once that happened, and he has. Tommy & Peter have going on 12 years in the band...still touring the world to adoring, screaming crowds and still making money on a brand they Gene/Paul owns...that's called smart business.

Boris is right...if Gene/Paul could not turn a profit with the Tommy/Eric line up, he'd likely do what he had to in order to turn that around...but that's not the case.

I find it funny when fans act like their "calling out" a musician for thinking about money. EVERY BAND from the pre-internet era thinks about money. That's because before the internet, these bands were these musicians' businesses...their means of making a living and generating wealth. They HAVE to think about money. It's not like they were some pure-hearted artists who didn't care about money when they were younger...many of them were self-serving addicts who could play an instrument and write a song but were not good for much else. Gene was the exception. Gene uses music like Steve Jobs used technology...to turn a profit. We all do something here to make money...let's get over ourselves, shall we?

Yes! Excellent points.

Of course KISS was all about the money since the beginning, look at the 70s evidence like all the lunch boxes, temporary tattoos, posters, dolls, Kiss radios, jackets, t-shirts, comic books and other assorted bullshit aimed squarely at pre-teens and young teens in the late 70s, that's really all the proof needed.

...and in other, less drama filled KISS related news, Ace Frehley just announced via Facebook that his new solo album, SPACE INVADER, will be released at the end of June.

007 wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Did anyone read the article in Rolling Stone? Ace claims he only licensed his make up to KISS for x number of years... Paul says it's not true and Gene hasn't said anything on it. From Peter's book, it sounds like Ace had the better lawyer, so it's plausible. Peter sold his makeup and shares in KISS, Inc after Animalize was a hit and KISS could afford to buy him out... Ace just BS'ing like Gene or truth? Only KISS, Inc and Ace's attorney know for sure....

I'm thinking about buying that and if I do, it will be the first and only time I ever purchased Rolling Stone.

It's online to read for free:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kiss-forever-40-years-of-feuds-and-fury-20140326

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kiss-and-tell-comparing-the-original-band-members-memoirs-20140326#ixzz2x74b0Bc3

Fat Freddy wrote:

...and in other, less drama filled KISS related news, Ace Frehley just announced via Facebook that his new solo album, SPACE INVADER, will be released at the end of June.

O hell yeah!!!!!!

thejokeriv wrote:

007 wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Did anyone read the article in Rolling Stone? Ace claims he only licensed his make up to KISS for x number of years... Paul says it's not true and Gene hasn't said anything on it. From Peter's book, it sounds like Ace had the better lawyer, so it's plausible. Peter sold his makeup and shares in KISS, Inc after Animalize was a hit and KISS could afford to buy him out... Ace just BS'ing like Gene or truth? Only KISS, Inc and Ace's attorney know for sure....

I'm thinking about buying that and if I do, it will be the first and only time I ever purchased Rolling Stone.

It's online to read for free:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kiss-forever-40-years-of-feuds-and-fury-20140326

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/kiss-and-tell-comparing-the-original-band-members-memoirs-20140326#ixzz2x74b0Bc3

Even better ! Thanks !

Fat Freddy wrote:

...and in other, less drama filled KISS related news, Ace Frehley just announced via Facebook that his new solo album, SPACE INVADER, will be released at the end of June.

That's the kind of KISS news I give two shits about!   

Fat Freddy wrote:

...and in other, less drama filled KISS related news, Ace Frehley just announced via Facebook that his new solo album, SPACE INVADER, will be released at the end of June.

I will be getting this one !

I love KISS and IMO 'Sonic Boom' and 'Monster' are excellent albums, way better then the last three albums by the original line up 'Dynasty" 'Unmasked ' and 'Psycho Circus'.

Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer have not tainted the band's legacy. IMO they are better musicians then the Ace and Peter. I would have prefered that these two had their own characters or face paint design, but it didn't happen, oh well.

If I were Paul and Gene, I would not want to work with those two guys either, Peter's book is one long whine fest and then when he is not whining or moaning about some crap, he makes snide comments about Paul's sexuality ( who cares and not our business), Gene's greediness (oh that's shocking) and his own greatness ( yea whatever). Once outside of KISS, he managed to make one shitty solo album after another, thankfully years apart. Even the hapless Vinnie Vincent managed to make a decent solo album before ego and Revoln over took his life.

Ace had a decent solo career and can lay claim to be one of the most influential musicians of his era. But his drug abuse, being unprofessional and dressing like a Nazi when he knew Gene's mom was a holocaust survivor goes beyond being an asshole.

All anyone has to know is that in band life and business everyone involved is an asshole to some extent. Everybody.