Keeper of the Seven Keys Part One or Two?

EmoElmo wrote:

"The Legacy" is definitely the worst, those ultra-long epic songs seemed pointless at times, worst of all, it was a double disc, a boring double disc

"Rabbit" has moments, but I wouldn't classify it as their second worst

While I agree Legacy went on too long I still think it is better than Rabbit. That album just does not do much for me.

Bumpin' this just cuz OCI brought it up in another thread.

I just listened to Part 1 several times yesterday during my workout and I'm guessing I like that one best as I remember some of the songs on Part 2 being a bit overdone IMO (i.e. the end of "Eagle Fly Free"). I'll be listening to Part 2 today during my workout and see if my prediction is correct. I was obsessed with both these albums back in the day. I even had a Dr. Stein poster on my door.

Part I hands down. About half of part II does absolutely nothing for me.

exact33 wrote:

EmoElmo wrote:

"The Legacy" is definitely the worst, those ultra-long epic songs seemed pointless at times, worst of all, it was a double disc, a boring double disc

"Rabbit" has moments, but I wouldn't classify it as their second worst

While I agree Legacy went on too long I still think it is better than Rabbit. That album just does not do much for me.

Did I comment on this thread before? Who knows. But...

The Legacy is BY FAR the best of the trilogy. It didn't have the musical impact as the first two had (making it's title kind of ironic), but when it comes to the songwriting, Part III blows the original two away.

Yeah, I said it.

Apparently I replied a lot. Haha.

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

corplhicks wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

You do know that they no longer sound like Keeper 1 or 2 right?

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

You do know that they no longer sound like Keeper 1 or 2 right?

Well I've heard Chameleon and Pink Bubbles and yeah they sound different in a bad way, but nothing past that. Did they get better with the new singer?

New song of their latest album. New vocalist, guitarist, drummer since the last time you heard them.

When I first got into Helloween, I would have said Keepers Part 1 hands down. It is still a classic album and I thoroughly enjoyed it then as I do now. However, over the years I have found myself oddly enough more at pace with Helloween's own mentality. By that I mean that I found their less predictable, standard-fare albums to be very enjoyable and perhaps even more enjoyable than something like Keepers Pt 1.

I heard Keepers Pt 2 much later on (and in an order somewhat reversed having heard Pink Bubbles first), and I actually enjoyed it a lot and more in some ways than Pt 1.

I always seem to like whatever the recent release from Helloween is better than the last output. That's especially true of the Andi Deris era for me.

As for the winner, hard to say - I think if you really want a classic Helloween album then Walls of Jericho would beat both Keepers albums. I think on a pure classic, influential note Keepers 1 is essential and would beat Keepers pt 2 on most days. However, if you are feeling adventurous, Keepers 2 offers a bit of everything Helloween can do and are about without straying too far off their traditional sound (like they did with Pink Bubbles or Chameleon, which for what they are worth are decent enough but just not the Helloween of the first three albums or of the Deris era).

corplhicks wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

You do know that they no longer sound like Keeper 1 or 2 right?

Well I've heard Chameleon and Pink Bubbles and yeah they sound different in a bad way, but nothing past that. Did they get better with the new singer?

I'm almost convinced you're making all this up as you go. You keep spouting off stuff, then revealing something like, "I have listened to them since 1983," or completely changing your mind and flipping your original statement.

I don't get it.

Eyesore wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

You do know that they no longer sound like Keeper 1 or 2 right?

Well I've heard Chameleon and Pink Bubbles and yeah they sound different in a bad way, but nothing past that. Did they get better with the new singer?

I'm almost convinced you're making all this up as you go. You keep spouting off stuff, then revealing something like, "I have listened to them since 1983," or completely changing your mind and flipping your original statement.

I don't get it.

A quick note - I have heard Kiske being compared to Tate on several occasions. The first time I heard about this was from a music magazine, about a decade ago, where they had like a flash back to classic albums and Keepers Pt 1 along side Mindcrime were featured and the reviewer compared Kiske to a German-sounding Tate. Up until that point I had never thought of that comparison and I still don't get it. Kiske imo has quite a unique voice - I don't know how to correctly identify it, but there is a certain yelp in his voice (albeit not annoying) that mixed with his German accent creates a melodic and enjoyable tone.

If you hear Kiske's voice on more recent recordings he did with Edguy and Unisonic you'll see how his voice has improved / matured. Still sounds very good but I dare say more melodic. I think this is why I ended up liking Pink Bubbles, it is quirky and that image fits well with Kiske's strange melodic sounding voice.

Helloween's image has always been part-goofy part-happy - not really a band with a strong seirous message or a dark side. I don't think that is the point either. They after all helped shape power metal, which for most part plays at a happy and clean pace with the occasional metal-worship anthems. Given that being happy and goofy is the premise of the band I'm not sure how they can get 'better'. It's more that they furthered that sound with Andi Deris and kinda balanced things out with each album delivering a mix of classic / updated style. I would say all Helloween albums sound different but that happy and goofy element is consistent on most of their albums.

Kai, Kiske and Deris all sound different and yet all singers also took / take Helloween in a unique direction.

Eyesore wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

You do know that they no longer sound like Keeper 1 or 2 right?

Well I've heard Chameleon and Pink Bubbles and yeah they sound different in a bad way, but nothing past that. Did they get better with the new singer?

I'm almost convinced you're making all this up as you go. You keep spouting off stuff, then revealing something like, "I have listened to them since 1983," or completely changing your mind and flipping your original statement.

I don't get it.

When did I say I listened to them since 1983? Dude, you need to get off my back. I don't know what it is about me that's riding your nerves but I'm getting a little annoyed.

I'll take Part II, for the "I Want Out" alone.

Chameleon is an awesome album, never understood the hatred it generates.

There's something in Deris' tone which grates on my nerves. It works alright in PC69, but irks me in Helloween.

"Master of the Rings" is probably my favorite album with Deris, just bought the original Castle pressing from oldies.com for like $2. Hopefully I can find "The Time of the Oath" for similar price. That would conclude my collection as far as Deris is concerned.

Part III is rubbish.

This concludes my little Helloween observation

corplhicks wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

S.D. wrote:

I never became a huge fan of Helloween because the "goofiness factor" was just a little too much for me to take...and the vocalist got on my nerves as well.

This. I really tried, really I did, but the singing was like Geoff Tate on bath salts. Goofy I can take in small batches, like with Manowar, but my other problem with Helloween was they were so clean and happy and melodic in a time that my favorite album was Taking Over. Regardless, they have my respect and I did dig part one for awhile. I understand part two happens to be the more popular choice, but part one had a grittier feel that was more along my preferences.

You do know that they no longer sound like Keeper 1 or 2 right?

Well I've heard Chameleon and Pink Bubbles and yeah they sound different in a bad way, but nothing past that. Did they get better with the new singer?

I'm almost convinced you're making all this up as you go. You keep spouting off stuff, then revealing something like, "I have listened to them since 1983," or completely changing your mind and flipping your original statement.

I don't get it.

When did I say I listened to them since 1983? Dude, you need to get off my back. I don't know what it is about me that's riding your nerves but I'm getting a little annoyed.

Something like, I said. Meaning something like that.

First, I don't have an issue with you. Let that be clear. However, I find it difficult to have a discussion with someone who often seems to be talking about stuff he or she has no real knowledge of.

Some examples:

You talk about your dislike of Queensryche. People express an opinion opposite of yours. Then you apparently listen to Queensryche for the first time in decades and declare you take it back, they're not that bad.

You talk about your dislike of Skid Row. People express an opinion opposite of yours. Then you apparently listen to Skid Row for the first time in decades and declare you take it back, they're not that bad.

You talk about your dislike of Helloween, then it's revealed you haven't actually listened to them in decades.

The question is, why are you so dramatically talking about these things if you're not very knowledgeable about the subject at hand?

Part II by a hair for me.

Part One is still winning. As it should be.

For the record corplhicks....you of course are entitled to your opinion no matter what it is. Eyesore seems to be nitpicking in this situation for whatever reason. Don't let it discourage you.

stormspell wrote:

I'll take Part II, for the "I Want Out" alone.

Chameleon is an awesome album, never understood the hatred it generates.

There's something in Deris' tone which grates on my nerves. It works alright in PC69, but irks me in Helloween.

"Master of the Rings" is probably my favorite album with Deris, just bought the original Castle pressing from oldies.com for like $2. Hopefully I can find "The Time of the Oath" for similar price. That would conclude my collection as far as Deris is concerned.

Part III is rubbish.

This concludes my little Helloween observation

I would highly recommend checking out The Dark Ride as well. Along with Master of the Rings and The Time of the Oath are the only 3 Deris era albums that I listen to at all. I burned myself out on Helloween a while ago but these 3 albums are the ones that I still enjoy listening to on occasion.

Time of the Oath is a stellar album, no skip songs.

stormspell wrote:

Chameleon is an awesome album, never understood the hatred it generates.

There's something in Deris' tone which grates on my nerves. It works alright in PC69, but irks me in Helloween.

Part III is rubbish.

This concludes my little Helloween observation

Agreed with all of this. I actually mentioned the thing about Deris in the unorthodox thread. It evokes this weird physical reaction where it's difficult for me to listen to.

Though I'm pretty sure the best Deris record is 'Better Than Raw'.

You guys are whack, Deris voice is killer.

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:

It evokes this weird physical reaction where it's difficult for me to listen to.

It makes you do incessant back flips while hollering the word "HEY!" over and over and making a face to where you look like the spitting image of Andy?