1988 THRASH METAL! Mosh it Up!

Temple of Blood wrote:

This is the only board where VR would've received even one vote amongst such stiff competition.

Maybe not the only board, but one of the few for sure. I'd be willing to bet they would do well at the CMR, Firestream, etc. etc.

I voted for them, not because I don't like the others, but because that album consumed me when I first discovered it. It's saw raw and heavy. I hadn't really heard anything quite like that since early Metallica, Slayer, etc. and other than Napalm Death, I don't remember ever hearing a vocalist like that.

Vengeance Rising tends to be way more popular in christian circles than among "secular" fans.

WHEW, this was the toughest vote yet.

I went with Punishment For Decadence, but could've just as easily picked Survive, South of Heaven or Dimension Hatross. Leprosy would also rank high, but I still consider it death metal, not thrash.

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Maybe not the only board, but one of the few for sure. I'd be willing to bet they would do well at the CMR, Firestream, etc. etc.

I think what ToB meant was that only a Christian dominated board would put a band like VR on par with all those other influential secular bands. VR were talented but how many bands did they influence outside of Christian metal? I think The Crucified or Believer even did better than VR as far as getting noticed...

Metallica - ...And Justice for All

Too many great choices but I suppose I'd pick Overkill.

Troublezone wrote:

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Maybe not the only board, but one of the few for sure. I'd be willing to bet they would do well at the CMR, Firestream, etc. etc.

I think what ToB meant was that only a Christian dominated board would put a band like VR on par with all those other influential secular bands. VR were talented but how many bands did they influence outside of Christian metal? I think The Crucified or Believer even did better than VR as far as getting noticed...

That's what I love about this board. It's far more diverse than many of the boards out there.

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

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Maybe not the only board, but one of the few for sure. I'd be willing to bet they would do well at the CMR, Firestream, etc. etc.

I think what ToB meant was that only a Christian dominated board would put a band like VR on par with all those other influential secular bands. VR were talented but how many bands did they influence outside of Christian metal? I think The Crucified or Believer even did better than VR as far as getting noticed...

That's what I love about this board. It's far more diverse than many of the boards out there.

I don't disagree.

I followed metal pretty closely in 1988, but I had never heard of VR until I joined the board. Did they sell their albums in secular music stores?

Tower would carry some of these groups. The one I frequented had Deliverance, Tourniquet and VR at times. Might've depended on the buyer maybe?

It was where these stores were stocking these groups. They were in the "Christian" section. I found Stryper's covers album in the gospel section. lame.

detuned wrote:

I followed metal pretty closely in 1988, but I had never heard of VR until I joined the board. Did they sell their albums in secular music stores?

Yes, when VR and D first signed to Intense Records they were distributed by Enigma/Medussa. VR never intended to sign to a Christian label, but then Intense Records was sold to Frontline Music Group and it became a Christian label distributed to Christian stores. Doug from VR told me the band was very unhappy about the sale to Frontline, but they had no say in the matter and were stuck in their contract. I have always said that VR would have been at least as big as bands like Testament if they had better distribution.

detuned wrote:

I followed metal pretty closely in 1988, but I had never heard of VR until I joined the board. Did they sell their albums in secular music stores?

Same here. Never heard of them until i signed up here. Had to check them out because of all the praise they get here.
I now understand why i had never heard of them .
However this board also introduced me to Believer and Deliverance, two bands i think are great and should have gotten way more attention.
So i guess two out of three aint bad...

testament!

I remember Believer, they must have gotten more press.

I was living out in the middle of nowhere in 1988, the kind of place where you had to drive 35 miles to the nearest record store. Quite possible the shops didn't have those bands, metal was kind of a minority music in that area anyway(to put it mildly).

There's no way in the world that VR could have been as big as TESTAMENT. TESTAMENT were huge in 1988 or so.

Temple of Blood wrote:

There's no way in the world that VR could have been as big as TESTAMENT. TESTAMENT were huge in 1988 or so.

I disagree. I think they could have been much, much bigger than they were. Like them or not, Roger was a character on stage and a unique vocalist. Larry Farkas is one of the coolest and best guitarists ever. The guy plays with so much soul and feeling, but is technically skilled as well. They also had a unique sound. It's all just opinion. No one can say for sure how big they COULD have been if they didn't get screwed by their record company and ultimately fall apart. I do know that when I saw the original VR in 1990 at the Sunshine Theater the place was packed and it wasn't full of Christians. The Sunshine was the same theater that a lot of the thrash bands were playing at, save for the Big 4 stadium bands. I also know that when I purchased Human Sacrifice in '88 as a new release and brought it back to my college apartment, all my college friends liked them as well, many of them darkening the doors of Christian stores just to buy it. There wasn't a whole lot like them in '88. Who knows what could have happened if offered the same opportunity as Overkill, Testament or any other thrash band from the era with a decent record contract.

mc666 wrote:

Gilbert wrote:

I have always had trouble getting into Anthrax.

I bought persistence of time and among the dead. Despite repeated listens, i felt nothing

try Among The Living, it has more life to it.

I concur, one of the most liveliest thrash albums from the 80s. I went with Testament, that was my second Testament album after The Ritual (which was the only album where they strayed from thrash).

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I have always said that VR would have been at least as big as bands like Testament if they had better distribution.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion... Most metalheads don't like preachy lyrics and Roger's vocals are not exactly easy to listen to. Testament are considered top notch... Chuck Billy is one of the most versatile vocalists in metal while Roger was one demensional and harsh. Nothing against Larry Farkas but he is no Alex Skolnick either. (he is good though... don't get me wrong)

I'm not trying to dump on VR but i don't see how the two can be compared. I'd say VR is more on par with a band like VIKING as far as popularity potential (if they were marketed better.)

Troublezone wrote:

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I have always said that VR would have been at least as big as bands like Testament if they had better distribution.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion... Most metalheads don't like preachy lyrics and Roger's vocals are not exactly easy to listen to. Testament are considered top notch... Chuck Billy is one of the most versatile vocalists in metal while Roger was one demensional and harsh. Nothing against Larry Farkas but he is no Alex Skolnick either. (he is good though... don't get me wrong)

I'm not trying to dump on VR but i don't see how the two can be compared. I'd say VR is more on par with a band like VIKING as far as popularity potential (if they were marketed better.)

UGH! Ok, I obviously didn't make myself very clear. I was merely trying to say they probably would have been much more well known had they not been screwed by their record company. I was not trying to compare them directly to Testament.

And I think that Vengeance Rising were already as popular a Viking during their heyday, if not moreso. I doubt Viking in their prime could have sold out an arena like the Sunshine Theater.

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UGH! Ok, I obviously didn't make myself very clear. I was merely trying to say they probably would have been much more well known had they not been screwed by their record company. I was not trying to compare them directly to Testament.

Ok, I agree that they could've been somewhat more known if marketed better.

On a side note... The Crucified were on the verge of big things had they not fell apart when they did. I understand that they were being considered for Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power tour.
(apparently phil anselmo was a fan)

Vengeance Rising COULD have been bigger, had their vocalist not been so utterly terrible...

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Vengeance Rising COULD have been bigger, had their vocalist not been so utterly terrible...

Ahhhhh, bite me!

ultmetal wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Vengeance Rising COULD have been bigger, had their vocalist not been so utterly terrible...

Ahhhhh, bite me!

Troublezone wrote:

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UGH! Ok, I obviously didn't make myself very clear. I was merely trying to say they probably would have been much more well known had they not been screwed by their record company. I was not trying to compare them directly to Testament.

Ok, I agree that they could've been somewhat more known if marketed better.

That debatable.

Back in the day, the Christian tag could've worked against them. Speaking from personal experience, if someone came up to my friends and I back in the day with a tape of "Christian thrash", we wouldn't have given it the time of day. "Christian and thrash together? 2 words combined that can't make sense. Does not compute". An ignorant statement, sure, but we laughed at a group like Stryper and made jokes about the bible throwing, stupid stuff like that without really listening to the music. The stripped outfits didn't help either.

Point is, there are plenty of folks out there that would dismiss a band just because they carried a Christian tag, no matter what. Even if the product is top shelf, it can limit their marketability.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that my musical tastes have matured (even if I haven't) over the years and I'll gladly listen to Christian bands. Reading Ult's & Kmorgs site and being a member of this board has opening up my ears to tons of new bands, Christian and secular alike. As long as they're good though. I still don't listen to Vengeance Rising, but their belief system has nothing to do with it.