Fates Warning

I've been wanting to get this. Hopefully I can get it soon. And hoping to see them live Nov. 30th.

Solid effort...more energetic than 'X'...more melodic...still after two spins nothing really grabbed me. It is nice to hear solos though...Aresti is a beast.

Hey, ultmetal, check your private messages.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

...still after two spins nothing really grabbed me..

This is where I am at too. I like what I hear, but it's all forgotten when the album is finished.

I need some feedback for my confusion. I recently purchased No Exit. First I've actually heard of FW and this album was picked because of all the praise heaped on it. I've been spinning it a few times...

Is everyone here serious? Is this not the right album to start with? Because all I'm hearing is shit. I really don't get how any fan of USPM could find this even a good addition to their library. Here's what I noticed:

1). Awful production. Guitars are sitting all the way in the back and carry NO power. I understand a lot of USPM suffered poor production quality (Hall of the Mountain King comes to mind), but this isn't even endearing.
2). Monotonous compositions. Just a bunch of mid-paced songs with fifth chords thrown around with little regard for refrain or compounding.
3). Joke vocals. Alder seems to know no subtlety or nuance. He just belts out his falsetto and upper-end as obnoxiously loud as he can without any grit or stylized dynamics that other far better USPM vocalists had.
4). Zero regard for melody or hooks. If anyone can remember these songs, I'm impressed. I listened as carefully as I could and it sound like Alder was just going improv with a lyric sheet in front of him. Nothing matches up. He just chooses different notes here and there.

I understand they had progressive sensibilities and some lack of accessibility should be allowed, but when none of the elements add up or make cohesive sense, the 'progressive' tag carries little weight. Did I just choose the wrong album to start with this band? Should I have chosen Awaken the Guardian? I love USPM but this doesn't come close to so many other fine bands in the subgenre.

Um, I can't help you, man...because No Exit is badass.

Eyesore wrote:

Um, I can't help you, man...because No Exit is badass.

Haha. I'm positive I'll be walking the lonely road with this one.   

I just realized that I actually don't have that album! I have the three before with John Arch and then my Ray Alder collection starts with Perfect Symmetry and ends with FWX (I haven't gotten the newest one yet).

For what its worth, My favorite period is from A Pleasant Shade Of Gray til now.

Which probably puts me in the minority!

Interesting review at Rovi that kind of amplifies what I'm saying yet at the same time praising them for it:

"Usually regarded as the finest release from Fates Warning's early years, when their progressive leanings were tempered with no small amount of classic metal riffing, No Exit is a typically difficult album to come to grips with. As was often the case on prior releases, the band has a hard time reconciling its ruthless experimentation with the need to construct coherent songs, leading to any number of awkward passages in which melodies and riffs are recklessly spliced together. Still, the album is another step forward, and tracks like "Anarchy Divine," "Shades of Heavenly Death," and "In a Word" rank among the best of their career thus far. Side two is entirely taken by the daunting "The Ivory Gate of Dreams," which at over 20 minutes and eight separate parts, finds the band in its most extreme and complex progressive metal mode. Like his predecessor, new vocalist Ray Alder's piercing screams are something of an acquired taste (coming off like a less disciplined version of Queensrÿche's Geoff Tate), but the rest of the band perform to their usual high technical standards."

(btw chewie I'm listening to One now--much better.

THIS is the album that got me into F.W.

corplhicks wrote:

I need some feedback for my confusion. I recently purchased No Exit. First I've actually heard of FW and this album was picked because of all the praise heaped on it. I've been spinning it a few times...

Is everyone here serious? Is this not the right album to start with? Because all I'm hearing is shit. I really don't get how any fan of USPM could find this even a good addition to their library. Here's what I noticed:

1). Awful production. Guitars are sitting all the way in the back and carry NO power. I understand a lot of USPM suffered poor production quality (Hall of the Mountain King comes to mind), but this isn't even endearing.
2). Monotonous compositions. Just a bunch of mid-paced songs with fifth chords thrown around with little regard for refrain or compounding.
3). Joke vocals. Alder seems to know no subtlety or nuance. He just belts out his falsetto and upper-end as obnoxiously loud as he can without any grit or stylized dynamics that other far better USPM vocalists had.
4). Zero regard for melody or hooks. If anyone can remember these songs, I'm impressed. I listened as carefully as I could and it sound like Alder was just going improv with a lyric sheet in front of him. Nothing matches up. He just chooses different notes here and there.

I understand they had progressive sensibilities and some lack of accessibility should be allowed, but when none of the elements add up or make cohesive sense, the 'progressive' tag carries little weight. Did I just choose the wrong album to start with this band? Should I have chosen Awaken the Guardian? I love USPM but this doesn't come close to so many other fine bands in the subgenre.

Being THE biggest FW fanboy out there, I have to admit No Exit isn't one of the albums I consider their best. If I recall correctly, it took me a number of listens to finally appreciate it, aside from Anarchy Divine - a sick metal anthem.
Now to the next part. Being somewhat a transitional abum, NE might be not the right place to start. If you want a full-on USPM assault, you'd better get Night on Brocken. You read that right, as both Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian, praised like hell by mostly everyone, suffer from their overly complex and twisted structure. Add on top of that John Arch's waaaaaaay too nasal tone, and you might get close to a headache. To quote yourself, "If anyone can remember these songs, I'm impressed". Both these albums had to be listened a dozen of times to remember one full song. NoB is straight forward metal you'd expect to hear from US band of 1984.

With that said, I'd recommend the following:
For Arch era my pick would be his EP - Twist of Fate. It captures classic sound quite nicely, keeping it tight and memorable.
From Perfect Symmetry up to Inside Out Fates were divine. Can't help here as I'm biased. Parallels for super accesible lightweight prog still unmatched. Symmetry for band's trademark sound.
After that, they went into "colder" and darker things. All the albums I like to the same extent. Disconnected might be the pinncale of this exact sound.

Haven't listened to the newest as I'm afraid to

Eyesore wrote:

Um, I can't help you, man...because No Exit is badass.

This - bad ass album! Great songs, killer vocals! Not my top Alder-era album, but it is still a killer album.

corplhicks wrote:

I need some feedback for my confusion. I recently purchased No Exit. First I've actually heard of FW and this album was picked because of all the praise heaped on it. I've been spinning it a few times...

Is everyone here serious? Is this not the right album to start with? Because all I'm hearing is shit. I really don't get how any fan of USPM could find this even a good addition to their library. Here's what I noticed:

1). Awful production. Guitars are sitting all the way in the back and carry NO power. I understand a lot of USPM suffered poor production quality (Hall of the Mountain King comes to mind), but this isn't even endearing.
2). Monotonous compositions. Just a bunch of mid-paced songs with fifth chords thrown around with little regard for refrain or compounding.
3). Joke vocals. Alder seems to know no subtlety or nuance. He just belts out his falsetto and upper-end as obnoxiously loud as he can without any grit or stylized dynamics that other far better USPM vocalists had.
4). Zero regard for melody or hooks. If anyone can remember these songs, I'm impressed. I listened as carefully as I could and it sound like Alder was just going improv with a lyric sheet in front of him. Nothing matches up. He just chooses different notes here and there.

I understand they had progressive sensibilities and some lack of accessibility should be allowed, but when none of the elements add up or make cohesive sense, the 'progressive' tag carries little weight. Did I just choose the wrong album to start with this band? Should I have chosen Awaken the Guardian? I love USPM but this doesn't come close to so many other fine bands in the subgenre.

"Perfect Symmetry" is much better. You should've chosen that one.

I completely understand where you're coming from with 'No Exit' and all I can say is it'll grow on you even if it takes a while. Memorability, at this point I could probably hum the record front to back for you. It will probably take a while and yes the production is uggghhhhh but that will grow on you as well, adding to the atmosphere.

This one and 'Awaken The Guardian' are the top ones I always rec to people. The former is probably more accessible than 'No Exit'.

I've made my feelings on 'Perfect Symmetry' pretty clear in a lot of posts here but who knows, you might end up liking it........

No matter what, you still need to have the Arch/Matheos record.

ultmetal wrote:

Arch! Though I like them both. I think I just prefer the heavier music that Arch sang on.

Top 3 are the same as Temple of Blood's:
The Spectre Within
Awaken the Guardian
No Exit

Fixed that for ya!   

'No Exit' bad? Wow....just...wow.   

BearOnUnicycle wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

I need some feedback for my confusion. I recently purchased No Exit. First I've actually heard of FW and this album was picked because of all the praise heaped on it. I've been spinning it a few times...

Is everyone here serious? Is this not the right album to start with? Because all I'm hearing is shit. I really don't get how any fan of USPM could find this even a good addition to their library. Here's what I noticed:

1). Awful production. Guitars are sitting all the way in the back and carry NO power. I understand a lot of USPM suffered poor production quality (Hall of the Mountain King comes to mind), but this isn't even endearing.
2). Monotonous compositions. Just a bunch of mid-paced songs with fifth chords thrown around with little regard for refrain or compounding.
3). Joke vocals. Alder seems to know no subtlety or nuance. He just belts out his falsetto and upper-end as obnoxiously loud as he can without any grit or stylized dynamics that other far better USPM vocalists had.
4). Zero regard for melody or hooks. If anyone can remember these songs, I'm impressed. I listened as carefully as I could and it sound like Alder was just going improv with a lyric sheet in front of him. Nothing matches up. He just chooses different notes here and there.

I understand they had progressive sensibilities and some lack of accessibility should be allowed, but when none of the elements add up or make cohesive sense, the 'progressive' tag carries little weight. Did I just choose the wrong album to start with this band? Should I have chosen Awaken the Guardian? I love USPM but this doesn't come close to so many other fine bands in the subgenre.

Being THE biggest FW fanboy out there, I have to admit No Exit isn't one of the albums I consider their best. If I recall correctly, it took me a number of listens to finally appreciate it, aside from Anarchy Divine - a sick metal anthem.
Now to the next part. Being somewhat a transitional abum, NE might be not the right place to start. If you want a full-on USPM assault, you'd better get Night on Brocken. You read that right, as both Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian, praised like hell by mostly everyone, suffer from their overly complex and twisted structure. Add on top of that John Arch's waaaaaaay too nasal tone, and you might get close to a headache. To quote yourself, "If anyone can remember these songs, I'm impressed". Both these albums had to be listened a dozen of times to remember one full song. NoB is straight forward metal you'd expect to hear from US band of 1984.

With that said, I'd recommend the following:
For Arch era my pick would be his EP - Twist of Fate. It captures classic sound quite nicely, keeping it tight and memorable.
From Perfect Symmetry up to Inside Out Fates were divine. Can't help here as I'm biased. Parallels for super accesible lightweight prog still unmatched. Symmetry for band's trademark sound.
After that, they went into "colder" and darker things. All the albums I like to the same extent. Disconnected might be the pinncale of this exact sound.

Haven't listened to the newest as I'm afraid to

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:

I completely understand where you're coming from with 'No Exit' and all I can say is it'll grow on you even if it takes a while. Memorability, at this point I could probably hum the record front to back for you. It will probably take a while and yes the production is uggghhhhh but that will grow on you as well, adding to the atmosphere.

This one and 'Awaken The Guardian' are the top ones I always rec to people. The former is probably more accessible than 'No Exit'.

I've made my feelings on 'Perfect Symmetry' pretty clear in a lot of posts here but who knows, you might end up liking it........

No matter what, you still need to have the Arch/Matheos record.

So it's a grower. I do WANT to like it, but I tried again today and--ugh. But this all helps. Chewie has been sharing some tracks with me on Facebook from the later era and it's pretty much a different band but very enjoyable. Anyway, I won't give up on this one. First time I've ever had problems with a USPM album clicking with me, though...

USPM?

US Power Metal.

I've been revisiting 'Darkness In A Different Light' recently...it's definitely growing on me...excellent performances all around and the songs are really starting to sink in.