France is rated the top place to live in the world

HITLER WAS NOT A CHIRSTIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no problem with you having your own opinion but you are not intitled to you own facts. Hitler hated Christianity almost as much as Judaism. This notion that Hitler was some great conservative is historically inaccurate. The Nazis were not right wing radicals, they were socialists. The Nazi party was actually called the German Socialist Party.

You seem to have this vendetta against Christianity and want to blame tyrants in history who claimed Chrisianity but never showed any Christian attributes whatsoever. How about leaders who had a problem with Christianity?

Hitler
General Mao
Joseph Stalin
Fidel Castro
Ohmar Kadafi
Hugo Chavez
Pol Pot

History is full of evil, vile people of all walks of life. Christianity has it's dark side, I will not deny it and frankly it pisses me off that people whow claimed Christianity committed such horrible attrocities. I never said that people who aren't Christians don't have good morals. If it came to a person who claims to be a Christian but ran a prostitute ring or a Budist who donates money to worthy causes, I'd choose the Budist without hesitation. I don't vote for someone just because they claim Christianity, like Toho I vote for those who's voting record I agree with and who's actions coinside with their words. If you stop listening to Pat Robertson and other loud mouthed jerks, you would find many other conservative Christians feel the same way. I'm sorry if I seem angry, but you are being very unfair to a group of people just because of some bad seeds.

I can't believe USA made the top 10.

Metal Misfit wrote:

I can't believe USA made the top 10.

Why not? America is the one country immigrants risk eveything to get into. It is one of the first places to send relief to disaster victims (talking about charities, not government). We even have some of the best hospitals in the world. Also despite our sorted history we have done a lot of good in the world. Are we perfect? Hell No! But for many people, America is a great place to live.

DallasBlack wrote:

Metal Misfit wrote:

I can't believe USA made the top 10.

Why not? America is the one country immigrants risk eveything to get into. It is one of the first places to send relief to disaster victims (talking about charities, not government). We even have some of the best hospitals in the world. Also despite our sorted history we have done a lot of good in the world. Are we perfect? Hell No! But for many people, America is a great place to live.

We agree here friend!

There is no place like the USA!!!

Still.

Some people claim to be Christian to drag it's name through the mud. It's well thought out and calculated. George Bush made sure of that... and the way people see america too.

Well this thread has become draining for me and I regret taking the bait (once again) into a political and religious discussion. As a matter of fact, I figured this thread would turn political by it's very nature but I continued to watch the topic and post my thoughts despite my inner warnings. I think from now on, I'll stick to music and popular culture and avoid any topic that could turn into a political or religious debacle. I hope nobody has any hard feelings toward me and my views, I don't feel any personal animosity myself. We all have a different view of things and that's what makes life interesting (frutrating, but interesting). Peace!

DallasBlack wrote:

Well this thread has become draining for me and I regret taking the bait (once again) into a political and religious discussion. As a matter of fact, I figured this thread would turn political by it's very nature but I continued to watch the topic and post my thoughts despite my inner warnings. I think from now on, I'll stick to music and popular culture and avoid any topic that could turn into a political or religious debacle. I hope nobody has any hard feelings toward me and my views, I don't feel any personal animosity myself. We all have a different view of things and that's what makes life interesting (frutrating, but interesting). Peace!

No hard feelings on my part... i think it's interesting.

Troublezone wrote:

Some people claim to be Christian to drag it's name through the mud. It's well thought out and calculated. George Bush made sure of that... and the way people see america too.

DallasBlack wrote:

Well this thread has become draining for me and I regret taking the bait (once again) into a political and religious discussion. As a matter of fact, I figured this thread would turn political by it's very nature but I continued to watch the topic and post my thoughts despite my inner warnings. I think from now on, I'll stick to music and popular culture and avoid any topic that could turn into a political or religious debacle. I hope nobody has any hard feelings toward me and my views, I don't feel any personal animosity myself. We all have a different view of things and that's what makes life interesting (frutrating, but interesting). Peace!

Peace bro. You got my PM right? No hard feelings on my part either.

You're a friend, and I want to keep it that way! K BIATCH!!!

DallasBlack wrote:

HITLER WAS NOT A CHIRSTIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have no problem with you having your own opinion but you are not intitled to you own facts. Hitler hated Christianity almost as much as Judaism.

What uncle Adolf's own opinion on Christianity and religious beliefs are unsure even among the most renowned historians. However, it is a matter of historical fact that Hitler's speeches glorified Germany's Christian heritage, and that he supported what the Nazis called Positive Christianity. The so-called German Church was at the time the biggest church in Germany, and it fully supported Hitler's policy and the ideology of national socialism. You could say that Hitler merely used Christianity as a tool, but that is debatable. After all, he was much more sympathetic towards keeping Christianity in Germany than implanting Himmler's plans to revive Germanic paganism.

DallasBlack wrote:

This notion that Hitler was some great conservative is historically inaccurate. The Nazis were not right wing radicals, they were socialists. The Nazi party was actually called the German Socialist Party.

I'm sorry, but that is utter bull. Hitler's party was called the Nazional Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiters Partei (NSDAP), which in English means National Socialist German Worker's Party. National socialism is a right wing ideology. I'm sorry, but there's no denying that. Socialism and communism were seen as un-German, un-Christian and un-Aryan by the nazis, and were regarded as inventions of the "Jewish enemy" to destroy "Aryans." Extreme right wing doesn't necessarily mean extremely conservative (although the NSDAP was very conservative when it came to certain points).

The problem here is that you stick to the American way of thinking about political ideologies: conservatism is right wing, liberalism is left wing. This is nonsense as well, as liberalism is a right wing ideology too, and has very few elements in common with socialism. There is more to the right wing than just conservatism. Fascism and national socialism were both right wing ideologies. This is historical fact

DallasBlack wrote:

You seem to have this vendetta against Christianity and want to blame tyrants in history who claimed Chrisianity but never showed any Christian attributes whatsoever. How about leaders who had a problem with Christianity?

Hitler
General Mao
Joseph Stalin
Fidel Castro
Ohmar Kadafi
Hugo Chavez
Pol Pot

History is full of evil, vile people of all walks of life. Christianity has it's dark side, I will not deny it and frankly it pisses me off that people whow claimed Christianity committed such horrible attrocities. I never said that people who aren't Christians don't have good morals.

Hold on, wait a minute, It's a pretty big assumption on your part that I have a vendetta against Christianity. The only thing that I pointed out was that there were a number Christian leaders that were extremely immoral. Never in any of my posts in this topic did I condemn all Christians, Christianity or any other religion. Your religious beliefs are YOUR choice, and between you and your God or deity (which is one of the reasons why I believe religion has absolutely no place in government whatsoever). You can do as you please for all I care. Sure, there were leaders of other religions or of no religion at all who were horrible dictators, I never contested that, and I never implied that you personally would only vote for Christians.

On a side note, I don't really see what the problem is with this discussion. We're all entitled to our own views right?Imo you should be able to defend your views. As long as nobody results to ad hominem attacks or bigotry everything should be okay. I don't care if your opinion is different from mine, just don't expect me to agree with it.

Quote :

What uncle Adolf's own opinion on Christianity and religious beliefs are unsure even among the most renowned historians. However, it is a matter of historical fact that Hitler's speeches glorified Germany's Christian heritage, and that he supported what the Nazis called Positive Christianity. The so-called German Church was at the time the biggest church in Germany, and it fully supported Hitler's policy and the ideology of national socialism. You could say that Hitler merely used Christianity as a tool, but that is debatable. After all, he was much more sympathetic towards keeping Christianity in Germany than implanting Himmler's plans to revive Germanic paganism.

Just like politicians today, he used Christianity to rally votes from the people. A label means nothing when you are going against the core principals of the belief. It can be a cheap disguise or mask.
Hitler was a murderous madman that had a sick agenda. If anything, he was tyring to play God... not worship God.

Addy wrote:

Hey Spyder LTNS hows things?

Hey bro how ya doin'? Me? Meh, i'll send ya a PM....

Got it and replied

DallasBlack wrote:

Metal Misfit wrote:

I can't believe USA made the top 10.

Why not? America is the one country immigrants risk eveything to get into. It is one of the first places to send relief to disaster victims (talking about charities, not government). We even have some of the best hospitals in the world. Also despite our sorted history we have done a lot of good in the world. Are we perfect? Hell No! But for many people, America is a great place to live.

You don't have to tell me, brother, I'm US-born and bred. I just meant that it's so fashionable for the world to look down on us.

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

What uncle Adolf's own opinion on Christianity and religious beliefs are unsure even among the most renowned historians. However, it is a matter of historical fact that Hitler's speeches glorified Germany's Christian heritage, and that he supported what the Nazis called Positive Christianity. The so-called German Church was at the time the biggest church in Germany, and it fully supported Hitler's policy and the ideology of national socialism. You could say that Hitler merely used Christianity as a tool, but that is debatable. After all, he was much more sympathetic towards keeping Christianity in Germany than implanting Himmler's plans to revive Germanic paganism.

Just like politicians today, he used Christianity to rally votes from the people. A label means nothing when you are going against the core principals of the belief. It can be a cheap disguise or mask.
Hitler was a murderous madman that had a sick agenda. If anything, he was tyring to play God... not worship God.

I don't know if that was the case, maybe he believed he was on a divine mission. After all, the bible had been used for decades and decades in the southern US to condone slavery, and the KKK was originally a very protestant organization and very anti-catholic. Before anyone starts to accuse me of having a "vendetta against Christianity" or any similar nonsense, my point is simply that someone's beliefs depend on one's interpretation of scripture.

Dave the Boss wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

What uncle Adolf's own opinion on Christianity and religious beliefs are unsure even among the most renowned historians. However, it is a matter of historical fact that Hitler's speeches glorified Germany's Christian heritage, and that he supported what the Nazis called Positive Christianity. The so-called German Church was at the time the biggest church in Germany, and it fully supported Hitler's policy and the ideology of national socialism. You could say that Hitler merely used Christianity as a tool, but that is debatable. After all, he was much more sympathetic towards keeping Christianity in Germany than implanting Himmler's plans to revive Germanic paganism.

Just like politicians today, he used Christianity to rally votes from the people. A label means nothing when you are going against the core principals of the belief. It can be a cheap disguise or mask.
Hitler was a murderous madman that had a sick agenda. If anything, he was tyring to play God... not worship God.

I don't know if that was the case, maybe he believed he was on a divine mission. After all, the bible had been used for decades and decades in the southern US to condone slavery, and the KKK was originally a very protestant organization and very anti-catholic. Before anyone starts to accuse me of having a "vendetta against Christianity" or any similar nonsense, my point is simply that someone's beliefs depend on one's interpretation of scripture.

If it's "by the fruit" true believers are known... i believe his actions were self expainatory. The majority of germans at the time were probably Christian. He used that and their disgust from the last war to fuel his nazi party's popularity and to "restore" german pride.

I know I said I was done and for the most part I am. However, Dave's last post to me seemed a little upset at me so I want to try to burry the hatchet and do as MB said and "agree to disagree":

I'm sorry if it seemed like I was making assumptions about your attitude toward Christianity. I was simply stating my opinion of what it sounded like to me. It was not an absolute statement I was making and I'm sorry if it was wrong (and it appears that is the case). We all have our own opinions and sometimes they prove to be wrong.

Our understanding of history is polar opposites. I am not a historical scholar by any means, my knowledge of history comes from other people who are (and probably yours is too). And as you said about historians not agreeing on aspects of Hitler, we both know historians never agree on everything. Much of what peole know about history is shaped by the individual historian. For example, all historians agree that Jesus existed but they don't all agree that what we know about him is true. So we will always have different interpretations of what is and what isn't. You are obviously well educated in history moreso than I am and yes, I look at terms like liberal and conservative by their meanings today. As far as I'm concerned the meaning of words today are more significant that what they were in the past (please understand that is simply my opinion) and that's what I go by. It's obvious we won't agree on this point and arguing the matter would be pointless (not to mention a headache).

Also, I don't have a problem with anyone having their own opinion. It is the right of every individual to to so. I'm not going to lie to you, I would love for people to see things as I see them and agree with me (if you were honest with yourself you would probably say the same thing-anyone would) but life doesn't work out that way. You don't believe religion should have any part in politics and it is your right to vote in a way that reflects that (I know your not American, I'm just looking at the broader spectrum). Just like I have the right to let my beliefs guide the way I vote.

I don't know much about you Dave, you don't post as much as many of the other people here but you seem like a bright young man. I hope there is no hard feelings between you and me. We come from two different worlds and backgrounds but I hope if we ever met we'd be able to shake hands and have a drink. Peace!

Right on Dallas!!!

Quote :

I hope if we ever met we'd be able to shake hands and have a drink. Peace!

I guess not

DallasBlack wrote:

Quote :

I hope if we ever met we'd be able to shake hands and have a drink. Peace!

I guess not

You're on his smurf poo list.

Troublezone wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Quote :

I hope if we ever met we'd be able to shake hands and have a drink. Peace!

I guess not

You're on his smurf poo list.

Oh well, if that's the case, no one can say I didn't make an effort. As Bull's mom told Harry on Night Court, "You can't like everybody." Whether people like me or not is nothing to loose any sleep over.

Don't worry Dallas. I like ya.

DallasBlack wrote:

Quote :

I hope if we ever met we'd be able to shake hands and have a drink. Peace!

I guess not

Haha, I just didn't come here for a while. I don't have a problem with you dude, not at all.

DB, Dave, just don't drink a beer in France.