Sepultura - A-LEX

spectrefate wrote:

It's the same thing about Metallica fans. So there are droves of old fans who hate the new stuff. Big deal. There are droves that love the new stuff. Then there are the fans that love it all. Pick your side and shut up.

Metallica isn't the problem because they play songs from their whole catalog. Sepultura seems to forsake their past.

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Metallica isn't the problem because they play songs from their whole catalog. Sepultura seems to forsake their past.

Well their past really isn't relevant anymore. Derrick has been in the band as long as Max. Why play old stuff? I'd rather hear Derrick do new stuff anyway. I see them almost like 2 seperate bands. The Arise and BTR Sepultura and the Derrick stuff. I tend to overlook Chaos AD and Roots as just filler albums. But that's my POV, I understand yours as well, I just disagree with it.

spectrefate wrote:

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Metallica isn't the problem because they play songs from their whole catalog. Sepultura seems to forsake their past.

Well their past really isn't relevant anymore. Derrick has been in the band as long as Max. Why play old stuff? I'd rather hear Derrick do new stuff anyway. I see them almost like 2 seperate bands. The Arise and BTR Sepultura and the Derrick stuff. I tend to overlook Chaos AD and Roots as just filler albums. But that's my POV, I understand yours as well, I just disagree with it.

I'm sure there is a reason Andreas is doing his solo stuff if you know what i mean. I think they're a sinking ship.

I don't know. Sepultura is Andreas' band at this point.

spectrefate wrote:

I see them almost like 2 seperate bands. The Arise and BTR Sepultura and the Derrick stuff. I tend to overlook Chaos AD and Roots as just filler albums.

this sums it up for me as well.

troublezone wrote:

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Fans have no say whatsoever

Sure they do, they can stop going to their shows or buying their records.

But they don't, do they? Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

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They're not a death-thrash band anymore

Then maybe it's time for Derrick to start crooning or rap. He like to use the bark or growl or whatever so if they are so far removed from their past let them really remove themselves. If they have that attitude like you do about not caring about the fans that made them what they are then they can do a nice press release telling the fans off.

Complete nonsense yet again. Who said the band doesn't care about the fans? They're TEN YEARS REMOVED from the style that you want. Now you want the band to start rapping and put out a press release telling the fans off? On what planet does that make sense? This band has been different for a decade, yet they owe it to the fans that made them what they are? Are they still a death-thrash band? Didn't think so.

So with your theory, they actually are giving the fans what they want--the new stuff. Because that's what they are now.

troublezone wrote:

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If you go to a show, you're not there to see a band play certain songs. That's a huge misconception among music fans. You pay to see the band PLAY. Simple as that. What they play is up to them.

That's a lie. Go to a Maiden show or a Priest or Sabbath show and see how many new songs the bands will play. They know a big reason that fans pay to see them is to hear some of the hits or their favorite songs. At most they will mix a few new songs in the set to introduce them to the audience and get a reation.

A lie? It is not a lie at all. It is fact. You think a fan has a right to hear certain songs when a band has 20 albums? That makes no sense. The fan pays to see the band live. What the band plays is solely up to the band.

troublezone wrote:

That's a lie. Go to a Maiden show or a Priest or Sabbath show and see how many new songs the bands will play. They know a big reason that fans pay to see them is to hear some of the hits or their favorite songs. At most they will mix a few new songs in the set to introduce them to the audience and get a reation.

Not for nuthin' but Maiden have always been very stubborn about playing a LOT of new material live. Yea, they mix in the hits but the current album they're pushing usually gets heavily represented. When I saw'em on the BRAVE NEW WORLD tour they must've played at least half of that album, and hell, when they toured A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH they played that album in its entirety!!

Of course, they balance it out by doing "hits tours" like this year's SOMEWHERE BACK IN TIME gigs but for the most part, Maiden have never been a band to just play one or two "token" new songs and then nothin' but hits. Hell, I never heard them do "Run To the Hills" live until this past summer and that was my third Maiden show...!

But anyway, to try and git this thread back on topic... listened to it again last night and man, that new Sepultura album still blows goats.

Eyesore wrote:

troublezone wrote:

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Fans have no say whatsoever

Sure they do, they can stop going to their shows or buying their records.

But they don't, do they? Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

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They're not a death-thrash band anymore

Then maybe it's time for Derrick to start crooning or rap. He like to use the bark or growl or whatever so if they are so far removed from their past let them really remove themselves. If they have that attitude like you do about not caring about the fans that made them what they are then they can do a nice press release telling the fans off.

Complete nonsense yet again. Who said the band doesn't care about the fans? They're TEN YEARS REMOVED from the style that you want. Now you want the band to start rapping and put out a press release telling the fans off? On what planet does that make sense? This band has been different for a decade, yet they owe it to the fans that made them what they are? Are they still a death-thrash band? Didn't think so.

So with your theory, they actually are giving the fans what they want--the new stuff. Because that's what they are now.

OK you're right, they should never play the old stuff just the new material. The fans wanna hear music they're not familiar with. The fans have no say because they're mindless robots.

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Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

Who said i tear them down? I think they're fine just not as good as the Max days. I've never downloaded their stuff and i've seen them live before back in 2000 at (Tattoo the Earth) and they were fine minus the thin guitar sound.

troublezone wrote:

OK you're right, they should never play the old stuff just the new material. The fans wanna hear music they're not familiar with. The fans have no say because they're mindless robots.

Yawn.

You can't "win" an argument by responding with things like this. I never said they should never play the old stuff. I said there is no reason they should not play the new stuff. The new stuff, whether you like it or not, is far more revelant than the old stuff, especially considering how far removed the band is from that early material.

And considering that Sepultura still pulls a decent crowd, I'd say that those in the crowd are plenty familiar with the new material. Just because you aren't, or you dislike it, means little.

I also never said fans are mindless robots. But if you'd like to carry on making things up, have at it. =)

troublezone wrote:

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Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

Who said i tear them down? I think they're fine just not as good as the Max days. I've never downloaded their stuff and i've seen them live before back in 2000 at (Tattoo the Earth) and they were fine minus the thin guitar sound.

Who said? You did, by way of all your replies here.

Wow. This thread has taken some real twists and turns since I last chimed in. I wish I had something more to say about it, but I don't. Here's a pic of puppy rocking out instead...



No word on whether he's listening to old or new Sepultura. Sure looks happy though.

Hey, I'm not angry. It's all good. I have issues. This is me when I was a little girl.



That's how I still roll. I keeps it real.

I like Sepultura with Derrick Green but it is not my favorite, I am not blaming Derrick Green but IMO after Max left the band they have failed to grow as songwriters since "The Roots" .

manny wrote:

I like Sepultura with Derrick Green but it is
not my favorite, I am not blaming Derrick Green but IMO after Max left
the band they have failed to grow as songwriters since "The Roots" .

really? i feel they've expanded quite a bit.

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You can't "win" an argument by responding with things like this

So this is some kind of game or sport for you?

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I never said they should never play the old stuff

See quote below... you didn't say the word "never" but it's insinuated.

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Why should the band play old stuff?

Eyesore wrote:

troublezone wrote:

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Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

Who said i tear them down? I think they're fine just not as good as the Max days. I've never downloaded their stuff and i've seen them live before back in 2000 at (Tattoo the Earth) and they were fine minus the thin guitar sound.

Who said? You did, by way of all your replies here.

So are you saying that comment wasn't in some way directed at me? Since i'm the only one standing against your opinion who were you refering to?

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especially considering how far removed the band is from that early material.

How far back is "early"? It's not that far removed from Chaos A.D.

Eyesore wrote:

Hey, I'm not angry. It's all good. I have issues. This is me when I was a little girl.



That's how I still roll. I keeps it real.

That actually explains a lot...

had to download this to hear for myself. i am loving this album. every song rips, with exception of the track Ludwig Van which sounds like a Savatage/TSO rip off & is totally out of place on the record. other than that, i think the album is actually better than Dante! can't wait for the release.

troublezone wrote:

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You can't "win" an argument by responding with things like this

So this is some kind of game or sport for you?

A game? You're making things up. It's called integrity. If you think it's okay to attribute nonsense to me and insist I said certain things then you're out of your mind.

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I never said they should never play the old stuff

See quote below... you didn't say the word "never" but it's insinuated.
Why should the band play old stuff?

Good call. You just proved me right. I don't "insinuate" anything. I say it, flat out, in black and white. There is no middle ground with me. If people don't like it, too bad, but you can't just make things up and pull the "I know what you really meant" argument.

If I felt Sepultura should never play their old stuff, it would say EXACTLY that.

troublezone wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

troublezone wrote:

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Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

Who said i tear them down? I think they're fine just not as good as the Max days. I've never downloaded their stuff and i've seen them live before back in 2000 at (Tattoo the Earth) and they were fine minus the thin guitar sound.

Who said? You did, by way of all your replies here.

So are you saying that comment wasn't in some way directed at me? Since i'm the only one standing against your opinion who were you refering to?

I'm saying that, in this thread, you have been tearing down Sepultura.

troublezone wrote:

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especially considering how far removed the band is from that early material.

How far back is "early"? It's not that far removed from Chaos A.D.

Yes it is. Chaos A.D. came out FIFTEEN years ago.

Eyesore wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

troublezone wrote:

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Maybe, just maybe, some people actually like what Sepultura is doing now. Shocking. But there are those, the people that have never seen the band live and just download their albums, that will tear the band down no matter what. It's nonsense.

Who said i tear them down? I think they're fine just not as good as the Max days. I've never downloaded their stuff and i've seen them live before back in 2000 at (Tattoo the Earth) and they were fine minus the thin guitar sound.

Who said? You did, by way of all your replies here.

So are you saying that comment wasn't in some way directed at me? Since i'm the only one standing against your opinion who were you refering to?

I'm saying that, in this thread, you have been tearing down Sepultura.

You call saying i like Max better "tearing down"? I mentioned the Croon /rap comment as a response to your style change argument. I don't see them doing all that much different vocal wise.