THE SELL OUT THREAD!

The Offspring are another band that went from aggressive punk to to borderline pop-punk with hits like Get A Job and Pretty Fly for a White Guy.

Incubus is another band that had a lot of funk and hard rock but that didnt seem to be working so the singer cut his hair, their music lost all the fun and they wrote song like Drive and Wish You Were Here.

I was thinking about mentioning the Offspring too.

MetalRob331 wrote:

The Offspring are another band that went from aggressive punk to to borderline pop-punk with hits like Get A Job and Pretty Fly for a White Guy.

The Offspring never sold out. They've always had a goofy side to them, and like Eminem, the goofy singles worked wonders for the band. I don't call it selling out if a band writes one silly song per album because it's guaranteed to be a hit. That's smart.

Music fans fail to acknowledge far too often that this is a job, it's what pays the bills. And if you're not a big band, you're very close to dirt poor. The Offspring are smart.

Quote :

Incubus is another band that had a lot of funk and hard rock but that didnt seem to be working so the singer cut his hair, their music lost all the fun and they wrote song like Drive and Wish You Were Here.

Incubus evolved with every album. Moreover, after Make Yourself, their biggest album, the band did the complete opposite of what a sellout does and began crafting more subtle, even progressive songs. The big catchy hits were gone after Make Yourself. I don't think Incubus sold out at all; they simply continued following a course they started with Fungus Amongus.

And cutting off dreads does not signify selling out. That is also smart. Dreads are nasty. Haha. Plus, the guitarist balanced that out by growing an afro.

Eyesore wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

The Offspring are another band that went from aggressive punk to to borderline pop-punk with hits like Get A Job and Pretty Fly for a White Guy.

The Offspring never sold out. They've always had a goofy side to them, and like Eminem, the goofy singles worked wonders for the band. I don't call it selling out if a band writes one silly song per album because it's guaranteed to be a hit. That's smart.

Music fans fail to acknowledge far too often that this is a job, it's what pays the bills. And if you're not a big band, you're very close to dirt poor. The Offspring are smart.

Quote :

Incubus is another band that had a lot of funk and hard rock but that didnt seem to be working so the singer cut his hair, their music lost all the fun and they wrote song like Drive and Wish You Were Here.

Incubus evolved with every album. Moreover, after Make Yourself, their biggest album, the band did the complete opposite of what a sellout does and began crafting more subtle, even progressive songs. The big catchy hits were gone after Make Yourself. I don't think Incubus sold out at all; they simply continued following a course they started with Fungus Amongus.

And cutting off dreads does not signify selling out. That is also smart. Dreads are nasty. Haha. Plus, the guitarist balanced that out by growing an afro.

If you listen to Offspring's debut and the cd Ignition this band strayed away from that sound for a more popular sound starting with Smash. Then from all the huge success from Smash this band just wrote mid paced blah blah blah pop songs with an occasional awesome song thrown in there. Offspring is up there as one of my top sellouts.

IMO when a band transforms its music to suit what is popular at that time, that is making music to sell therefore selling out. It might be smart and a great career move but like i mentioned before music is about expressing your feelings and thoughts through your instruments. Not expressing what other people want to hear.

Incubus sold out in my eyes, i found there cd's fun with some awesome songs almost 311ish where is that sound now? It didnt work so they had to change. They had an almost nu-metal meets funk rock vibe going on Science they totally blew that off and went with a more mainstream sound.

Eyesore wrote:

Selvmord wrote:

She's not metal, but Alanis Morrisette has to be the biggest sellout in the history of music. She was doing Canadian Pop in the vien of Paula Abdule, then all of a sudden she changed her look and her sound during the whole grunge thing, and all of a sudden she's some sort of genius!

Nope. Sorry. Sellout 100% in my book. Never liked or respected her in any way shape or form, and glad she's dropped off the musical radar....

Lame. She was also a teenager, one that was pressure into that sort of style. She recorded her first demo tape at like 8 years old, just her and a piano. She was 21 or 22 when Jagged Little Pill came out. She was smarter and more driven to not sell out. You've got it backwards.

And for the record, she hasn't dropped off the musical radar. Her latest album debuted in the top 10 on the Billboard charts.

Spin it any way you want, she sucks......

IMO when a band transforms its music to suit what is popular at that time, that is making music to sell therefore selling out. It might be smart and a great career move but like i mentioned before music is about expressing your feelings and thoughts through your instruments. Not expressing what other people want to hear.



Everyone read this. It is the DEFINITION of selling out.....

I agree with MetalRob about The Offspring. Their early stuff had some goofy songs but the overall feel was more punk than power pop.

I have all of them from the S/T to the new Rise And Fall, Rage and Grace (which is more of a return to the Smash-style IMO). The S/T and Ignition are much more punk musically and lyrically angrier. Even Smash is more punk-sounding. Ixnay On The Hombre is where their sound became more power pop IMO.

Selvmord wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Selvmord wrote:

She's not metal, but Alanis Morrisette has to be the biggest sellout in the history of music. She was doing Canadian Pop in the vien of Paula Abdule, then all of a sudden she changed her look and her sound during the whole grunge thing, and all of a sudden she's some sort of genius!

Nope. Sorry. Sellout 100% in my book. Never liked or respected her in any way shape or form, and glad she's dropped off the musical radar....

Lame. She was also a teenager, one that was pressure into that sort of style. She recorded her first demo tape at like 8 years old, just her and a piano. She was 21 or 22 when Jagged Little Pill came out. She was smarter and more driven to not sell out. You've got it backwards.

And for the record, she hasn't dropped off the musical radar. Her latest album debuted in the top 10 on the Billboard charts.

Spin it any way you want, she sucks......

Disagree, she is a very good artist and songwriter. Very overexposed back during her 'Jagged Little Pill' days, but a talented song writer who writes from her heart. May not be your cup of tea, fair enough.

What eyesore said about her teen idol days is correct, and another point is she couldn't have been a sell out, the expections to 'Jagged Little Pill' were not all that great, as you pointed out she was viewed as washed up teeny bopper star, Canada's answer to Tiffany, that is why it caught the industry by surprise when it took off like a rocket. I can see why you would feel that way that she was riding a wave when it comes to the grunge movement, but IMO her music has very little in common with Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and others who were considered the leading figures in the grunge movement.

I can't stand her voice. Just grates on my ears.

too true

Quote :

What I dislike is bands that lie about their past. It was very popular in the 1990's to deny you were ever a heavy metal band. Heavy metal became a dirty word in the mid-to-late 90's. Bands like Def Leppard, Stryper, Dokken and Holy Soldier were claiming they were "never really heavy metal bands."

I'd lump Queensryche in with that group as well. While I don't know if they've out-right denied their "metal" past, they certainly seemed to distance themselves from it for awhile. Then when their albums started to tank and noone cared about them anymore, what do they do? Mindcrime II, of course.

It pains me to say this but I would add Chris Cornell as a sell out. He wrote a song for American Idol winner David Cook. This is the same guy who's band Soundgarden rallied against 'corporate rock bands' of the 80's and 90's. The same guy who was in a band that disbanded because they felt they had nothing else left to say and didnot want to keep the band going just for the sake of existing.

So he goes off and writes a song for an American Idol winner, isn't this everything that Soundgarden stood against? I am still a fan of Soundgarden, Audioslave and like some of his solo stuff, but that move definitley strikes me as selling out.

Good point Manny. Sounds like selling out to me.

Selvmord wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Selvmord wrote:

She's not metal, but Alanis Morrisette has to be the biggest sellout in the history of music. She was doing Canadian Pop in the vien of Paula Abdule, then all of a sudden she changed her look and her sound during the whole grunge thing, and all of a sudden she's some sort of genius!

Nope. Sorry. Sellout 100% in my book. Never liked or respected her in any way shape or form, and glad she's dropped off the musical radar....

Lame. She was also a teenager, one that was pressure into that sort of style. She recorded her first demo tape at like 8 years old, just her and a piano. She was 21 or 22 when Jagged Little Pill came out. She was smarter and more driven to not sell out. You've got it backwards.

And for the record, she hasn't dropped off the musical radar. Her latest album debuted in the top 10 on the Billboard charts.

Spin it any way you want, she sucks......

You can't spin fact. It just is.

manny wrote:

It pains me to say this but I would add Chris Cornell as a sell out. He wrote a song for American Idol winner David Cook. This is the same guy who's band Soundgarden rallied against 'corporate rock bands' of the 80's and 90's. The same guy who was in a band that disbanded because they felt they had nothing else left to say and didnot want to keep the band going just for the sake of existing.

So he goes off and writes a song for an American Idol winner, isn't this everything that Soundgarden stood against? I am still a fan of Soundgarden, Audioslave and like some of his solo stuff, but that move definitley strikes me as selling out.

It's a way to make a living. On average, a song will get you $250,000 right off the bat, then you get a percentage of royalties. It's not selling out at all; it's a way for musicians to compensate for loss of WAGES due to YOU downloading.

I'm pretty sure that Black Sabbath sold their souls for rock and roll, at least that's the rumor.

ultmetal wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Black Sabbath sold their souls for rock and roll, at least that's the rumor.

we all know Ozzy sold his to his wife. i'm not sure about the other guys. i'll have to wait & see if they dump RJD for Belladonna.

ultmetal wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Black Sabbath sold their souls for rock and roll, at least that's the rumor.

LOL!

ultmetal wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Black Sabbath sold their souls for rock and roll, at least that's the rumor.

Eyesore wrote:

manny wrote:

It pains me to say this but I would add Chris Cornell as a sell out. He wrote a song for American Idol winner David Cook. This is the same guy who's band Soundgarden rallied against 'corporate rock bands' of the 80's and 90's. The same guy who was in a band that disbanded because they felt they had nothing else left to say and didnot want to keep the band going just for the sake of existing.

So he goes off and writes a song for an American Idol winner, isn't this everything that Soundgarden stood against? I am still a fan of Soundgarden, Audioslave and like some of his solo stuff, but that move definitley strikes me as selling out.

It's a way to make a living. On average, a song will get you $250,000 right off the bat, then you get a percentage of royalties. It's not selling out at all; it's a way for musicians to compensate for loss of WAGES due to YOU downloading.

I have never downloaded a song in my life, but I get the point your making, but I am sure Chris Cornell is not hurting for money. 2 platinum plus albums from Soundgarden and one platinum album for Audioslave, 2 gold disc from Soundgarden, 2 additional gold disc for his solo albums, and radio play on alternative and classic format rock stations, not to mention the restaurant he and his wife own in France.

If he was an artist who was say in Mudhoney or Tad that made nothing due to lack of album sales and radio sales that would make a better argument.

True that all artists are losing income due to downloading, etc but Chris Cornell isn't exactly starving for success.

7thSecond wrote:

7 Seconds. They put out a couple of U2ish sounding albums in the late 80's that were a far cry from the oldschool hardcore I knew them for. Thank God they've regained their form.

I love your new avatar man.

yeah, didnt 7 secs have this weird emocore phase at somepoint? I was surprised to hear how good some of the new stuff is lately.

manny wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

manny wrote:

It pains me to say this but I would add Chris Cornell as a sell out. He wrote a song for American Idol winner David Cook. This is the same guy who's band Soundgarden rallied against 'corporate rock bands' of the 80's and 90's. The same guy who was in a band that disbanded because they felt they had nothing else left to say and didnot want to keep the band going just for the sake of existing.

So he goes off and writes a song for an American Idol winner, isn't this everything that Soundgarden stood against? I am still a fan of Soundgarden, Audioslave and like some of his solo stuff, but that move definitley strikes me as selling out.

It's a way to make a living. On average, a song will get you $250,000 right off the bat, then you get a percentage of royalties. It's not selling out at all; it's a way for musicians to compensate for loss of WAGES due to YOU downloading.

I have never downloaded a song in my life, but I get the point your making, but I am sure Chris Cornell is not hurting for money. 2 platinum plus albums from Soundgarden and one platinum album for Audioslave, 2 gold disc from Soundgarden, 2 additional gold disc for his solo albums, and radio play on alternative and classic format rock stations, not to mention the restaurant he and his wife own in France.

If he was an artist who was say in Mudhoney or Tad that made nothing due to lack of album sales and radio sales that would make a better argument.

True that all artists are losing income due to downloading, etc but Chris Cornell isn't exactly starving for success.

The YOU comment was just for effect. Haha.

As for Cornell, I'm sure he's got a good amount of money, but it costs a lot of money for him to put himself out there on these big tours and such. That's not free. So while I think he's probably got a few million in the bank, I'd be willing to bet one world tour would cost at least a million. Dude is not a megastar. A $250,000 songwriting check is like our PTO bonuses at the end of the year. We don't need them, but they sure do help.

On your last point Eyesore I donot have a counterarguement, since the kind of tours Chris Cornell does do cost alot of cash in terms of production and time.

manny wrote:

....I have never downloaded a song in my life....

Liar, your downloading those songs i sent you.


Actually one of the bands on that little digital comp i sent you did the 'reverse' of selling out.

The band in question the Scientists time and time again changed when music trend's they spearheaded got popular......they were one of the first Australian punk bands which then got popular then they changed to a more 60's paisley garage band but then that got popular locally so they ditched the retro paisley gear that had become de riguer at the time and changed to more Cramps/Gun Club/Noise style band and along the way kinda invented the Sub Pop/Mudhoney/Grunge sound.....the want to be different and not being connected with any trends would explain why Scientists guitarist Kim Salmon turned down Mudhoney offered him the guitar gig at the height of Seatle mania.

So reverse selling out.....different. Any other bands come to mind who did that. Innovators who jumped ship whenever something they started became popular.

Rattpoison I can't think of any band who has done what the Scientist have done, which is commit commerical suicide, that being said the Scientist track you sent was very cool, thanks.