McCain or Obama

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Only an uneducated fool would say that.

On the contrary, only a fool would make excuses for that piece of crap.

Well the "people" got what they wanted....I'm not going to be bitter about anything.

xyz wrote:

troublezone wrote:

As for blaming Bush... i think it is agreed for the most part between everyone that he was the worst president we've had thus far.

Only an uneducated fool would say that.


Bush wasn't the best, but....

James Buchannan left us on the brink of Civil War, John Tyler was a legit traitor, Ulysses Grant had THE most corrupt administration ever, Andrew Johnson screwed up the Reconstruction, Franklin Pierce enabled slavery to continue west as the country moved that way, Jimmy Carter did absolutely nothing, and Warren Harding was caught up in sexual affairs.

In terms of abuse of power, Andrew Jackson moved all the Native Americans for Florida even though the Supreme Court deemed in unconstitutional.

Bush was bad, but not the worst.

Good post! Carter was worse than Bush (carter's economic mess was called stagflation), the other "dead presidents" you mentioned where bad too, don't forget the mess johnson caused in vietnam - and kennedy was the one who initially got us involved. Bush made his mistakes that we are paying for, we're still paying for clinton mistakes (his part of the mortgage crisis), hoover's mistakes that led to the great depression, FDR starting deficit spending, etc, etc

The point is, all presidents make mistakes. Will Bush go down as the worst president ever when the history books are written? Depends on who writes the books - bush haters will say he's the worst, someone that tries to take a balance approach will probably say he's not the best and not the worst.

I can't say if Bush is the worst president ever. You guys who like political science know way more than I ever will and can say for sure. But I am certain he will go down with the honor of being the worst President I have witnessed, in my book. Actually, I probably won't write a book, but if I did, I'd put that paragraph in there somewhere between the biscuit recipes and nude pictures of Kelly O'Dell.

Stender wrote:

Well the "people" got what they wanted....I'm not going to be bitter about anything.

Yes they did - had we not have the stock market collapse so close to the election, mccain would have won in a squeaker. Bush hurt anyone who is a republican, but the stock market collapse just killed it for mccain. People wanted change, and the next election cycle, people may want change again. We have voted for change pleantly of times since 1976 -
carter over ford (change platform)
Reagan in a landslide over carter (change we desperately needed! Change was part of the campaign platform)
12 years later - clinton over bush (change was part of campaign platform)
8 years later - bush over gore (change was part of the campaign platform)
8 years later - obama over mccain (both had change as part of the platform and america chose to change political parties in charge)

On the congress side, in 1996, america voted and wanted change (campagin platform), republicans won
in 2006, change again to democrats

We'll see what happens over the next two years, but you can bet that change will be the republican mantra for 2010 and 2012 elections.

spectrefate wrote:

I can't say if Bush is the worst president ever. You guys who like political science know way more than I ever will and can say for sure. But I am certain he will go down with the honor of being the worst President I have witnessed, in my book. Actually, I probably won't write a book, but if I did, I'd put that paragraph in there somewhere between the biscuit recipes and nude pictures of Kelly O'Dell.

LOL! Well, my Bachelor's degree is in political science, so I did study it quite a bit! And I am putting it to good use in the corporate recruiting field

President Johnson did screw up in Vietnam but if wasn't for President Johnson writing , pushing to pass and eventually sign the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 into law , I would be considered a second class citizen because of the race I was born into, would have been denied my right to vote, and been subjected in the South to Jim Crow laws.

I for one am glad Lyndon Johnson had become a president. John F Kennedy also proposed civil rights bill in 1963, to give me my full rights as a US Citizen, not to mention the personal scarfices of Dr Martin Luther King.

Not every Democrat in US history was evil, also Ulysesses S Grant was a terrible president true, but he did go after the K.K.K, and almost broke the organzation in two, which took that organzation almost 70 years to recover.

It is funny Joker I have a degree in political science so of course I work in the banking industry.

The Iraq war was based on a lie and thousands are dead. Bush can't even admit he was wrong and his knowing before hand of the 911 thing makes him resposible for another couple thousand deaths. Look between the lines regarding the Bush regime. I'm not saying the other presidents were not bad but this was calculated not a accident or mismanagement like Carter's screw up. For the record i believe we should finish the war in Iraq even though it was a "lie" to keep the area stable until their government can opperate alone. Leaving now would cheapen the lives taken and leave the area unstable.

DallasBlack wrote:

I know many will be pleased that we will be pulling out of Iraq, but for me all that will do is make the deaths of our soliders meaningless. Also, it will leave the Iraqi people vulnerable to radicals (remember what happened in Vietnam when we left?).

This all being said, we are in a Democracy, and Obama got the vote and Democrats run the legislation.

-Perhaps being in Iraq was meaningless? God bless our soldiers, but in order to honor their deaths in Iraq, that is enough justify us staying in Iraq and waste billions of dollars and have more soldiers killed? My buddy Sam went back to serve in Iraq this past summer for the 3rd time. He told me at one of their meetings one of his generals made it clear to everyone why they were in Iraq. It's called OIL. Plain and simple. We've killed our men for Oil.

-The Vietnam comment. Seeing that we are the same age, I doubt you remember Vietnam. Vietnam is not doing that bad these days. They have no terrorists plotting to kill us. Most of them like the US. When was the last time you heard something bad coming out of Vietnam? That was another mistake in US history, completely useless "war" that did more harm than good.

-One last thing. We are actually a Republic and not a Democracy. In a Republic like ours, the people have a say in the government and its elections (decisions still made by higher elected officials), like the one we just had. In a Democracy, all the power is given to the people. This is called mob rules, and if that was the case, the US would tank.

GrandNational wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I know many will be pleased that we will be pulling out of Iraq, but for me all that will do is make the deaths of our soliders meaningless. Also, it will leave the Iraqi people vulnerable to radicals (remember what happened in Vietnam when we left?).

This all being said, we are in a Democracy, and Obama got the vote and Democrats run the legislation.

-Perhaps being in Iraq was meaningless? God bless our soldiers, but in order to honor their deaths in Iraq, that is enough justify us staying in Iraq and wasting billions of dollars and have more soldiers killed? My buddy Sam went back to serve in Iraq this past summer for the 3rd time. He told me at one of their meetings one of his generals made it clear to everyone why they were in Iraq. It's called OIL. Plain and simple. We've killed our men for Oil.

-The Vietnam comment. Seeing that we are the same age, I doubt you remember Vietnam. Vietnam is not doing that bad these days. They have no terrorists plotting to kill us. Most of them like the US. When was the last time you heard something bad coming out of Vietnam? That was another mistake in US history, completely useless "war" that did more harm than good.

-One last thing. We are actually a Republic and not a Democracy. In a Republic like ours, the people have a say in the government and its elections (decisions still made by higher elected officials), like the one we just had. In a Democracy, all the power is given to the people. This is called mob rules, and if that was the case, the US would tank.

You're right that it was for oil and disruption of the order of things hince the taking out of Saddam only to empower Iran (they were mortal enemies). Now Iran has it's eyes on the destuction of Isreal and all hell may break loose. But yeah oil was one of the reasons.

manny wrote:

It is funny Joker I have a degree in political science so of course I work in the banking industry.

I was planning to go to law school, but decided against it after I got out of college and liked not having to go to school!

manny wrote:

No matter where we all stand on the issues I for one am glad that this election is over.

I will agree with you on that.

awesome where did he come from?

spectrefate wrote:

What needs to happen is serious welfare reform. Get these healthy, lazy assed people who are living off the government out there in the work force. If every American who can take care of themselves, would just take care of themselves for once, the Country would be in much better condition.

Man,don't get me started on that. My wife's brother-in-law has been trying for years (like over a decade) to get disability while living off welfare. First,it was a bad back. That fell through so things started drying up for him and he found work. Somehow,he gets injured on the job (a metal sliver in the eye) and is "blinded" in that eye (started wearing those giant welding glasses everywhere yet still was able to drive). Back on welfare while he tried to get disability again. That too failed. Finally,he gets disability on the third try for his mental deficiencies. He says the other night to my sister-in-law "Let's go home. I'm tired. I've been hunting all day." Bastard can't work but can hunt and fish and do whatever else he wants. And he's just the tip of the iceberg with my good for nothing in-laws.They all pretty much collect welfare yet are all capable of working

007 wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

What needs to happen is serious welfare reform. Get these healthy, lazy assed people who are living off the government out there in the work force. If every American who can take care of themselves, would just take care of themselves for once, the Country would be in much better condition.

Man,don't get me started on that. My wife's brother-in-law has been trying for years (like over a decade) to get disability while living off welfare. First,it was a bad back. That fell through so things started drying up for him and he found work. Somehow,he gets injured on the job (a metal sliver in the eye) and is "blinded" in that eye (started wearing those giant welding glasses everywhere yet still was able to drive). Back on welfare while he tried to get disability again. That too failed. Finally,he gets disability on the third try for his mental deficiencies. He says the other night to my sister-in-law "Let's go home. I'm tired. I've been hunting all day." Bastard can't work but can hunt and fish and do whatever else he wants. And he's just the tip of the iceberg with my good for nothing in-laws.They all pretty much collect welfare yet are all capable of working

And this is exactly what I'm going to be watching for under the Obama presidency. My feeling is that under Obama, it won't take three tries to be able to suck the government teat; the first attempt will be sufficient and I'll be paying for it.

But...we'll see. I'm totally open to being proven wrong. But I have my eye on you and your policies Mr. Obama.

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I'm totally open to being proven wrong.

That's what I've been saying all day, more or less....I want to be wrong.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Quote :

I'm totally open to being proven wrong.

That's what I've been saying all day, more or less....I want to be wrong.

Exactly. I'm an American first and foremost and therefore I want our Commander In Chief to do well and do what's best for the country.

I just don't think this is the guy for the job. But I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

troublezone wrote:

not only that but he or they (his administration) knew of 911 before it happened and did nothing

Kinda like FDR did with Pearl Harbor?

SideShowDisaSter wrote:

troublezone wrote:

not only that but he or they (his administration) knew of 911 before it happened and did nothing

Kinda like FDR did with Pearl Harbor?

BTW, got any solid CREDIBLE journalistic links to back that statement about 911 up?

And please don't quote some Loose Change site.

You people are too negative. I sincerely doubt that Obama will screw up the country any more than it's already been screwed up.

Either way, it's a really cool time to be alive!
First sort-of black president!

Schbopo wrote:

You people are too negative. I sincerely doubt that Obama will screw up the country any more than it's already been screwed up.

Either way, it's a really cool time to be alive!
First sort-of black president!

It would be cooler if I didn't pay attention to some of the things this guy says and/or some of the people he's been associated with.

You don't work yet Schbopo. At least not full time. When there's a potential for even higher taxes coming out of your paycheck so that people who don't work (but could) can get a free handout of health care, food and other basic necessities, you might feel differently.

I'm with Spec; if you're going to enact all these social policies, the first thing to do is clean up the welfare system that pays able-bodied people to sit on their asses.

This whole "spread the wealth around" concept is socialist bullshit IMO.

EDIT: look at that; "bullshit" gets past the board filters but "gay" doesn't. Go figure.

troublezone wrote:

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Bush was bad, but not the worst.

Sorry but you're wrong. This is the nuclear age and Bush made the whole world hate us and not only that but he or they (his administration) knew of 911 before it happened and did nothing to capture his buddy Bin Laden. As corrupt as some of those past presidents were they didn't put our country in turmoil as bad as the last 8 years. Name one good thing Bush did while in office? His whole purpose as president was to further his fathers agenda. I also loved the way he sent relief to the Katrina victims. We're talking traitor and war criminal.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. I don't want to get into a debate about the merrits of the Iraq war, as a matter of fact I've tried to avoid it completly around here. However, the adminisration knowing about it before it happened it a ridiculous and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. Bin Ladden is not Bush's buddy and there is absolutly no proof whatsoever to that fact. As there is also no proof that Bush lied to get us in Iraq. Bush went by the same intelegence that Bill Clinton had and if you want to blame Bush for Bin Ladden and 911, then part of the blame must be put onto him as well. The fact of the matter is all presidents through Carter did nothing to stop the flow of terrorists and it wasn't until 911 that something was finally done. Also it is right to point out that Bush wasn't even in the White House a year when 911 occurred. Something like that takes years of planning to come about. Bush was the first to actually go after the terrorists and we haven't had an attack on American soil in 7 years when we had many attacks during the administrations before this one.

You probably think I'm as full of BS as I do you and we could argue this for eternity without any one of us budging an inch. However, I feel I had to put my 2 cents in on this and I couldn't leave your accusations unchallenged. I hope this doesn't put us at each other's throats because I want to keep the civil tone this thread has had up til now.

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You people are too negative. I sincerely doubt that Obama will screw up the country any more than it's already been screwed up.

Either way, it's a really cool time to be alive!
First sort-of black president!

How old are you again?

15.

I hate when people think I'm not informed about something based solely on my age.

Quote :

15.

I hate when people think I'm not informed about something based solely on my age.

There's a reason voting age is what it is. "Been There, Done That" does carry weight in the World.