McCain or Obama

Schbopo wrote:

15.

Still stickin' to that story, eh?

Quote :

Either way, it's a really cool time to be alive!

100% true. No matter who the President is. These peeps who say that an election has started the roll of the inevitable ball of doom just make me giggle.

DallasBlack wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Quote :

Bush was bad, but not the worst.

Sorry but you're wrong. This is the nuclear age and Bush made the whole world hate us and not only that but he or they (his administration) knew of 911 before it happened and did nothing to capture his buddy Bin Laden. As corrupt as some of those past presidents were they didn't put our country in turmoil as bad as the last 8 years. Name one good thing Bush did while in office? His whole purpose as president was to further his fathers agenda. I also loved the way he sent relief to the Katrina victims. We're talking traitor and war criminal.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. I don't want to get into a debate about the merrits of the Iraq war, as a matter of fact I've tried to avoid it completly around here. However, the adminisration knowing about it before it happened it a ridiculous and unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. Bin Ladden is not Bush's buddy and there is absolutly no proof whatsoever to that fact. As there is also no proof that Bush lied to get us in Iraq. Bush went by the same intelegence that Bill Clinton had and if you want to blame Bush for Bin Ladden and 911, then part of the blame must be put onto him as well. The fact of the matter is all presidents through Carter did nothing to stop the flow of terrorists and it wasn't until 911 that something was finally done. Also it is right to point out that Bush wasn't even in the White House a year when 911 occurred. Something like that takes years of planning to come about. Bush was the first to actually go after the terrorists and we haven't had an attack on American soil in 7 years when we had many attacks during the administrations before this one.

You probably think I'm as full of BS as I do you and we could argue this for eternity without any one of us budging an inch. However, I feel I had to put my 2 cents in on this and I couldn't leave your accusations unchallenged. I hope this doesn't put us at each other's throats because I want to keep the civil tone this thread has had up til now.

Sorry my friend but Bush has sold us out behind our backs to wealthy world bankers. As a Christian you should be aware of this... There already is a EU so now there going for us and there is gonna be a new currency called the Amero.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

Sorry troublezone but I disagree with that and I have yet to see any hard evidence to back up your claim. The North American union is just another conspiracy theory and just because CNN reports it doesn't bean it's true. If I am proven wrong then I'll concede, but the evidence is purely circumstantial at this point. I don't know what me being a Christian has to do with anything unless you're talking about a one world government. I don't fear a one world government because the bible tells us that it must happen for the return of Christ.

Whether Bush is an evil human being or not is just a matter of opinon. Like it or not, there is no solid unshakable evidence that he is. When and if there ever is then I will agree with you and apologize for my support of him. Until that happens I will remain of the opinion that he is not the worst president, definatly not one of the best, but not the worst. This is obviously something we will be at odds with for quite awile. Peace out.

OK there's no point wasting my time trying to convince you of anything.

DallasBlack wrote:

I don't fear a one world government because the bible tells us that it must happen for the return of Christ.

In what chapter and verse in the Bible does it say a "one world government must happen for the return of Christ?" I'm having a hard time finding it in mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzyT9-9lUyE&NR=1

Quote :

Sorry my friend but Bush has sold us out behind our backs to wealthy world bankers. As a Christian you should be aware of this...

How bout being an American you should be aware of this

I am not fan of George W, never have been, never will be, and I feel history will judge his administration harshly. That being said I do not believe nor will I ever believe that President George W knew about 9/11 before it happened, nor do I believe FDR knew about Pearl Harbor.

I disagree with the man's politics but I do not believe he would let innocent Americans die.

Questions his actions after 9/11, question his judgement on Iraq, but I have not seen any evidence that he knew of 9/11 before hand.

As far as how the Obama administration is going to perform and what policies he will propose, can we get him sworn in office first before we start trashing his administration, we are all Americans weather you voted for him or agaisnt him, he is still your President.

GrandNational wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I don't fear a one world government because the bible tells us that it must happen for the return of Christ.

In what chapter and verse in the Bible does it say a "one world government must happen for the return of Christ?" I'm having a hard time finding it in mine.

I should have worded that differently. It's not a direct quote but many verses in Daniel, Revelations, and other areas speak of the Anitchrist (or as Paul calls him, the Man of Perdition [Sin]). This man will command all the nations and receive worship from the people. Prophesy scolars believe that in order for this to happen all nations would have to unite under his rule. This is one of many endtime prophesies that lead up to Christ's return. I don't have much time in the mornings or I would find some links to articles from people that could explain this better than me, but if you have time you could probably find tons of articles online using search engines.

manny wrote:

I disagree with the man's politics but I do not believe he would let innocent Americans die.

Agreed. I believe even W isn't that stupid. No matter what you believe (in God, puppies, etc.) there is always a consequence to murder.

troublezone wrote:

OK there's no point wasting my time trying to convince you of anything.

The feeling is mutual. It would be a waste of both our times to try to convince each other. This doesn't mean that one of us is more informed than the other or wiser though. If anything these past years have taught us is that two smart, well informed people can disagree. I don't pretend to understand it either .

troublezone wrote:

For the record i believe we should finish the war in Iraq even though it was a "lie" to keep the area stable until their government can opperate alone. Leaving now would cheapen the lives taken and leave the area unstable.

I have nothing but respect for that position. Even if I were to agree with you about Bush, I'd hold this position. I can't for the life of me understand why somebody who thinks that we "screwed up" Iraq would want us to leave it "screwed up" without fixing it.

DallasBlack wrote:

troublezone wrote:

OK there's no point wasting my time trying to convince you of anything.

The feeling is mutual. It would be a waste of both our times to try to convince each other. This doesn't mean that one of us is more informed than the other or wiser though. If anything these past years have taught us is that two smart, well informed people can disagree. I don't pretend to understand it either .

troublezone wrote:

For the record i believe we should finish the war in Iraq even though it was a "lie" to keep the area stable until their government can opperate alone. Leaving now would cheapen the lives taken and leave the area unstable.

I have nothing but respect for that position. Even if I were to agree with you about Bush, I'd hold this position. I can't for the life of me understand why somebody who thinks that we "screwed up" Iraq would want us to leave it "screwed up" without fixing it.

If you don't do any maintainence on your car and it blows up and it costs more to repair then its worth, do you repair it?

I mean, honestly, I see a few people in here complaining about welfare, but we use that money to give Iraqis a free ride?

Why should we? When our country was oppressed by a horrible dictatorship, did we just sit back and take it? Hell no! Our ragtag team of patriots faced the largest and greatest army of it's day and won! America earned its freedom and I don't see why any other nation with a tinpot dictator can't do the same.

As far as how the Obama administration is going to perform and what policies he will propose, can we get him sworn in office first before we start trashing his administration.[/quote]

That's what I am waiting for But, we can have a discussion about his selections for cabinet (John Kerry wants sec of state? please! - see I started already!)

And I do think it's great that we elected a minority as president, I just WISH it has been a Republican. I've always felt that an republican african american could never be elected president and a democrat female could never be elected president.

PALIN FOR PILF 2012!!!*


*with credit to Dallas Black for the PILF comment, since he trademarked it

I honestly think the Republican party believed they were being "progressive" by throwing Sarah Palin to the wolves by making her the Vice Presidential nominee. A young, vibrant woman to counteract the youthfulness, intellect and 30-something voter appeal of Obama. Needless to say she didn't turn out that way.

I believe the Republicans need to regroup and find someone within their ranks that is more knowledgeable and still is relevant. Otherwise Barack 2012 is a shoe-in.

I'm not really much for politics...they are ALL liars and they ALL pander to their own agendas (which if you believe are those they actually speak of out loud, you are a fool)

The 2 party system is flawed and anyone who thinks that OBAMA or MCCAIN had he won can get into office and shine up this turd of a goverment into a stellar gem within four years is daft. Can't happen...and to pin that shitely mess on W or whomever is just as daft. it is a symptom of YEARS and YEARS and terms of different preisdents...sh** rolls down hill, people. And eventually it gets to a point where it all falls at the feet of one lucky Sonuvabeach...and this time the lucky bugger is OBAMA...
I wish him luck, he'll need it.

(one side rant: I saw a news story where some 65 year old African american woman voted for the first time this election so she could vote for Obama and the slant of the story was how wonderful and moving it is...IT IS NOT.
It's shameful...to sit in isolated slef imposed ignorant bliss, oblivious to elections and proceedure for decades and then decide to vote ONLY based on the race of the elect, is offensive. And there was an onslaught of this in this past election. I fell if you never bothered to vote before in any other election and you are not "new" (under the age of say 22) you should have been told...no.)

and yeah, I know I'm an a**hole.

DallasBlack wrote:

GrandNational wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I don't fear a one world government because the bible tells us that it must happen for the return of Christ.

In what chapter and verse in the Bible does it say a "one world government must happen for the return of Christ?" I'm having a hard time finding it in mine.

I should have worded that differently. It's not a direct quote but many verses in Daniel, Revelations, and other areas speak of the Anitchrist (or as Paul calls him, the Man of Perdition [Sin]). This man will command all the nations and receive worship from the people. Prophesy scolars believe that in order for this to happen all nations would have to unite under his rule. This is one of many endtime prophesies that lead up to Christ's return. I don't have much time in the mornings or I would find some links to articles from people that could explain this better than me, but if you have time you could probably find tons of articles online using search engines.

DB, I was being sarcastic. Scenarios about the end-times has almost become an industry and a religion itself, and everything you wrote I've heard a million times from the pop religion of the televangelists (when you have nothing better to do late at night and want to amuse yourself), but that type of language is so foreign to the ancient churches of the east. If you ever get the chance, check out a book titled "A Second Look at the Second Coming: Sorting Through the Speculations" by T.L. Frazier.

Shiney wrote:

I'm not really much for politics...they are ALL liars and they ALL pander to their own agendas (which if you believe are those they actually speak of out loud, you are a fool)

The 2 party system is flawed and anyone who thinks that OBAMA or MCCAIN had he won can get into office and shine up this turd of a goverment into a stellar gem within four years is daft. Can't happen...and to pin that shitely mess on W or whomever is just as daft. it is a symptom of YEARS and YEARS and terms of different preisdents...sh** rolls down hill, people. And eventually it gets to a point where it all falls at the feet of one lucky Sonuvabeach...and this time the lucky bugger is OBAMA...
I wish him luck, he'll need it.

(one side rant: I saw a news story where some 65 year old African american woman voted for the first time this election so she could vote for Obama and the slant of the story was how wonderful and moving it is...IT IS NOT.
It's shameful...to sit in isolated slef imposed ignorant bliss, oblivious to elections and proceedure for decades and then decide to vote ONLY based on the race of the elect, is offensive. And there was an onslaught of this in this past election. I fell if you never bothered to vote before in any other election and you are not "new" (under the age of say 22) you should have been told...no.)

and yeah, I know I'm an a**hole.

Well, our country is pretty much a two party system - those that lean towards to libertarian party tend to vote republican, those that lean towards the green party would tend to vote for democats. The problem with the two party system right now is that there is no such thing as a conservitive democrat or a liberal republican anymore (not many moderate republicans anymore). Regan was able to get his agenda through because of the conservitive democrats, even though the dems had control of the house and senate. The democrat party is now the liberal party and the republicans are now the conservative party.

Our country does tend to be a moderate to conservative country (or center right in political science terminology) and are repersentitives are either liberal or conservative, not a whole lot of middle.

It will be interesting to see what happens with obama - liberals tend to move to the center when they become president (as do conservatives)

It would be interesting to see a moderate party try to get off the ground, but I don;t think a 3 party system would work in the US - I don't our economy could take the coalitions and government collapses that happen in countries with more than 2 major parties.

My idea for an answer is for the parties to be more inclusive and welcoming to those to the right or left of the current party platforms.

Joker I am sure he will govern from the center, he would no choice anyway, successful Presidents have always or at least attempted to govern from the center. If he truly wants to solve this economy meltdown he is going need the help and input from both sides of aisle.

GrandNational wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

GrandNational wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

I don't fear a one world government because the bible tells us that it must happen for the return of Christ.

In what chapter and verse in the Bible does it say a "one world government must happen for the return of Christ?" I'm having a hard time finding it in mine.

I should have worded that differently. It's not a direct quote but many verses in Daniel, Revelations, and other areas speak of the Anitchrist (or as Paul calls him, the Man of Perdition [Sin]). This man will command all the nations and receive worship from the people. Prophesy scolars believe that in order for this to happen all nations would have to unite under his rule. This is one of many endtime prophesies that lead up to Christ's return. I don't have much time in the mornings or I would find some links to articles from people that could explain this better than me, but if you have time you could probably find tons of articles online using search engines.

DB, I was being sarcastic. Scenarios about the end-times has almost become an industry and a religion itself, and everything you wrote I've heard a million times from the pop religion of the televangelists (when you have nothing better to do late at night and want to amuse yourself), but that type of language is so foreign to the ancient churches of the east. If you ever get the chance, check out a book titled "A Second Look at the Second Coming: Sorting Through the Speculations" by T.L. Frazier.

I really don't dwell on end time prophesies anymore. It doesn't matter really how Christ returns, the important thing is that he will return. Who is right? Who is wrong? It doesn't matter what position you take or how you interpret prophesy. The only important thing to know is that Christ will return and that is where our hope lies.

Politics, religion, all the stuff that divides us gets on my nerves. I'm tired of arguing this and that with people I can't wait tl it all becomes moot. The only thing I should focus on is living my life the best that I can, do what I believe is right, and try to reflect Christ's love. I may pepper my opinion elsewhere on this board (I've tried to be completly quiet, but I never learn my lesson, when I believe that something said is wrong I feel I have to respond if nobody else does) but I am glad the election is over and I want to leave this behind and take a "wait and see" aproach to the years to come. So I am going to stop watching this topic and stick to music, popular culture, and general topics for now. See ya'll elsewhere.

DallasBlack wrote:

I really don't dwell on end time prophesies anymore. It doesn't matter really how Christ returns, the important thing is that he will return. Who is right? Who is wrong? It doesn't matter what position you take or how you interpret prophesy. The only important thing to know is that Christ will return and that is where our hope lies.

Shiney wrote:

I'm not really much for politics...they are ALL liars and they ALL pander to their own agendas (which if you believe are those they actually speak of out loud, you are a fool)

The 2 party system is flawed and anyone who thinks that OBAMA or MCCAIN had he won can get into office and shine up this turd of a goverment into a stellar gem within four years is daft. Can't happen...and to pin that shitely mess on W or whomever is just as daft. it is a symptom of YEARS and YEARS and terms of different preisdents...sh** rolls down hill, people. And eventually it gets to a point where it all falls at the feet of one lucky Sonuvabeach...and this time the lucky bugger is OBAMA...
I wish him luck, he'll need it.

(one side rant: I saw a news story where some 65 year old African american woman voted for the first time this election so she could vote for Obama and the slant of the story was how wonderful and moving it is...IT IS NOT.
It's shameful...to sit in isolated slef imposed ignorant bliss, oblivious to elections and proceedure for decades and then decide to vote ONLY based on the race of the elect, is offensive. And there was an onslaught of this in this past election. I fell if you never bothered to vote before in any other election and you are not "new" (under the age of say 22) you should have been told...no.)

and yeah, I know I'm an a**hole.

Not at all, I completely agree on this position Shiney.

manny wrote:

Joker I am sure he will govern from the center, he would no choice anyway, successful Presidents have always or at least attempted to govern from the center. If he truly wants to solve this economy meltdown he is going need the help and input from both sides of aisle.

I truely hope so and I hope pelosi and reed don't push him to run though a more extreme agenda.

The whole labor union law package worries me - basically a union can go in, get the signature cards needed to start a union, go to the labor board and the - boom - the employer has 60 days to negotiate a CBA. The law now is that they have to go to the labor board with the cards and have a secret ballot election. The whole secret ballot election would be gone, so employees that didn't want unions are stuck with one, the employee base as a whole doesn't get a vote. The employers don't want unions - you'll see more work shipped overseas. Having worked qorund the call center business (on the recruiting/hr side), I can tell you that any call center not yet in india will be there if the union comes in.

Quote :

(one side rant: I saw a news story where some 65 year old African american woman voted for the first time this election so she could vote for Obama and the slant of the story was how wonderful and moving it is...IT IS NOT.
It's shameful...to sit in isolated slef imposed ignorant bliss, oblivious to elections and proceedure for decades and then decide to vote ONLY based on the race of the elect, is offensive. And there was an onslaught of this in this past election. I fell if you never bothered to vote before in any other election and you are not "new" (under the age of say 22) you should have been told...no.)

That is just reverse racism on her part. It didn't matter what integrity the guy had she would just vote for him because he is black. People like that shouldn't be able to vote.

Even thou I am a Democrat I have not seen any evidence that either Pelosi or Reed have the ability to led, they have had two years and produced nothing of leglastive value.

Obama is now the leader of his party, and as its leader he will lead them, and he shall lead them down the center.

Obama is very intelligent man and has studied his history. Joker, you will not agree with everything he does, and in the end you may not agree with a thing he does end up doing, but you have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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The only important thing to know is that Christ will return and that is where our hope lies.

I agree!!!