McCain or Obama

Olafsto wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

I can understand that.
You are a whole Continent, while all the people of Norway could easily fit into one of your cities.
I have no idea how it would work in your Country, but Social Democracy as a system or an ideology is nothing to fear.
It`s always irritating for hard working people when certain people are lazy or work the system, that is a problem here and in many other places. I personally have no sympathy for such individuals. But at the same time it is good to know that if i, for some reason, will be unable to work. My family and i wont end up on the street.
Anyway, no matter who`s your next president, you will have a better one than what you have now.

Plus, individualism is very important to Americans and we have many, many different views, ideas, religious preferences, races - the big "melting pot" - the cost to run our country that way would be insane. I noticed when I was in NL that individualism just wasn't that important as it is in US. For your Europeans - correct me if I am worng on that, but it's what I noticed.

I think you are correct on that thejokeriv. It`s also my impression that individualism is way more important to you Americans than to Europeans.[/quote]

I was curious what is country's take on upcoming Presidential elections and the canidates?

manny wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

I can understand that.
You are a whole Continent, while all the people of Norway could easily fit into one of your cities.
I have no idea how it would work in your Country, but Social Democracy as a system or an ideology is nothing to fear.
It`s always irritating for hard working people when certain people are lazy or work the system, that is a problem here and in many other places. I personally have no sympathy for such individuals. But at the same time it is good to know that if i, for some reason, will be unable to work. My family and i wont end up on the street.
Anyway, no matter who`s your next president, you will have a better one than what you have now.

Plus, individualism is very important to Americans and we have many, many different views, ideas, religious preferences, races - the big "melting pot" - the cost to run our country that way would be insane. I noticed when I was in NL that individualism just wasn't that important as it is in US. For your Europeans - correct me if I am worng on that, but it's what I noticed.

I think you are correct on that thejokeriv. It`s also my impression that individualism is way more important to you Americans than to Europeans.

I was curious what is country's take on upcoming Presidential elections and the canidates?[/quote]

An election with those two candidates in Europe would be a walk in the park for Obama.
Having said that, McCain is not the most extreme candidate you have had, but that Palin chick ruins it for him. Her way of thinking is ancient history here.
There is a cultural difference between USA and Europe.
Reagan or Bush would never ever have made president here, at least in northern Europe.

http://yourjury.com/goverment-complaints/vote-for-socialism-vote-for-obama.html

That website was created by someone over at a boxing forum. Haha. It's pretty funny, but makes perfect sense. I've always wondered why politicians are never this honest.

Eyesore wrote:

http://yourjury.com/goverment-complaints/vote-for-socialism-vote-for-obama.html

That website was created by someone over at a boxing forum. Haha. It's pretty funny, but makes perfect sense. I've always wondered why politicians are never this honest.

I saw the posting I was not impressed, same old bullsh!t I have heard a thousand times before.

The above article brought up an interesting memory - I am a recruiter - I hire people, negoiate salaries, etc. Before the Bush tax cuts, I had people actually ask for a few grand less in salary so they weren't bumped up into the next tax bracket, wich would cause them to have less take home pay. Funny how a making a pre-tax salary $2,000 USD can cause you to actually have less money to spend.

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Schbopo wrote:

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

Olafsto wrote:

My Country, Norway, is run by what you call Democratic Sosialists.
And not to sound cocky, but we are way better off than the US (economy, average standard of living, crime ++++)
And yes, we pay a lot of tax, but paying tax is not giving away my money without getting anything in return.
We have free education, healthcare, if I am sick and home from work i still get full payment, if i lose my job i still get paid 60 % of my normal payment by the state. I could go on..
No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own.
And why is it all about McCain/Obama? They are only persons, it`s the system behind them and money that makes decisions, isn`t it?
Why fear change if it is a change for the better for the average citizen?

Because I think I should decide how to best spend the money I earn instead of having the government take it from me, then telling me they decided what I needed.

Interesting how that is an antiquated idea. Of course, Bush has been horrible with the budget so people are sick of him and his party. It's interesting to me also that Obama says taking from those who earn more to give to those who don't is the American way. It wasn't until FDR and the way he wants to do it will be even more then that.

Im going third party this year. Neither candidate is one that I can fully stand behind. I identify more with Bob Barr in the Libertarian party than the dems or repubs. If Ron Paul had stayed in and ran third party, my vote would be for him. Im tired of our government and I want change but not the change Obama and McCain are offerring.

I found it amusing driving to work this morning. A car in front of me had a bumper sticker..."Tired of the economy, tired of gas prices, tired of the war, VOTE DEMOCRAT"

Wait a minute!

Besides President Bush, haven't we had a Democrat majority in Washington for the past four years?

ultmetal wrote:

I found it amusing driving to work this morning. A car in front of me had a bumper sticker..."Tired of the economy, tired of gas prices, tired of the war, VOTE DEMOCRAT"

Wait a minute!

Besides President Bush, haven't we had a Democrat majority in Washington for the past four years?

Close the last two years.

manny wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

I found it amusing driving to work this morning. A car in front of me had a bumper sticker..."Tired of the economy, tired of gas prices, tired of the war, VOTE DEMOCRAT"

Wait a minute!

Besides President Bush, haven't we had a Democrat majority in Washington for the past four years?

Close the last two years.

Right, so where's the change they promised two years ago?

The point is, to blame President Bush only, or Republicans for the economic problems in our country is a farce. It goes much further than that. A new face behind the desk isn't going to fix anything. Having a Democrat controlled Senate and a Democrat President is "change", it's just more of the same no matter how much they try to point fingers at the other side.

Quote :

A new face behind the desk isn't going to fix anything.

This is the most truly sane comment in this thread.

Things may change for a little while, but we always end up in this ditch. I wish I knew the magic answer, but politics isn't going to solve the country's woes.

ultmetal wrote:

manny wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

I found it amusing driving to work this morning. A car in front of me had a bumper sticker..."Tired of the economy, tired of gas prices, tired of the war, VOTE DEMOCRAT"

Wait a minute!

Besides President Bush, haven't we had a Democrat majority in Washington for the past four years?

Close the last two years.

Right, so where's the change they promised two years ago?

The point is, to blame President Bush only, or Republicans for the economic problems in our country is a farce. It goes much further than that. A new face behind the desk isn't going to fix anything. Having a Democrat controlled Senate and a Democrat President is "change", it's just more of the same no matter how much they try to point fingers at the other side.

I will agree that this Congress has been a failure and they offered no alternatives, but a new President does make a difference in which direction as a country we take. If you look way back it has made a huge difference. Kennedy's Presidency was different than Eisenhower, Johnson was different than Nixon, Clinton than Bush, it makes a difference in what issues they choose to focus on. During our lifetime the difference between the administration of Carter and Reagan was night and day. I do see where you are coming from ULT and I personally believe both parties are equally responsible for this mess where in.

Tall Tyrion wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

My Country, Norway, is run by what you call Democratic Sosialists.
And not to sound cocky, but we are way better off than the US (economy, average standard of living, crime ++++)
And yes, we pay a lot of tax, but paying tax is not giving away my money without getting anything in return.
We have free education, healthcare, if I am sick and home from work i still get full payment, if i lose my job i still get paid 60 % of my normal payment by the state. I could go on..
No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own.
And why is it all about McCain/Obama? They are only persons, it`s the system behind them and money that makes decisions, isn`t it?
Why fear change if it is a change for the better for the average citizen?

Because I think I should decide how to best spend the money I earn instead of having the government take it from me, then telling me they decided what I needed.

I guess that sums up the huge gap between the American, and our way of thinking.
As thejokeriv correctly observed while in Europe, individualism is obviously of much greater importance to you.
There are good and bad things with every political system, but I know for sure I would not change with you crazy Yanks .

I understand totally Olafsto. One big difference, did this get addressed?, is the size. With over 300 million people socialism starts to become unwieldy, too many people trying to live without working. I think it works better in smaller countries.

Nazgul wrote:

I understand totally Olafsto. One big difference, did this get addressed?, is the size. With over 300 million people socialism starts to become unwieldy, too many people trying to live without working. I think it works better in smaller countries.

True - the next step after socialism is communism and that didn't work too well in Russia and China.

and ULT - both Bush and the dems controlling congress are resposible for this economic mess, but so is Bill Clinton, he's the one on who originally changed the rules on sub prime mortgages. The truth is, we pay for mistakes of a president for years, so of them don't come to light until 10 - 20 years later.

This current congress and been a total failure - the dems control it and are doing the "nah-nah we're in charge now", but nancy pelosi in charge and she's been a TOTAL failure as speaker of the house. They are drunk with power. Funny thing is, during the prosperity of the 80's and the crazy dot com growth of the late 90's, one party had the executive branch and another had congress.

The parties have issues too - the fringes control the parties (the right wing christians control the republicans, the extreme liberal left controls the democrats) and most americans are in the middle.

Meanwhile, government spending is WAY out of control, can't balance a budget (because if the members of congress don't get their "earmarks" they won't get re-elected).

Pelosi, Reed and Bush are responsible for the recent mess. Everyone is so quick to blame it all on Bush for the economic mess, but the democrats are responsible as well.

Nazgul wrote:

I understand totally Olafsto. One big difference, did this get addressed?, is the size. With over 300 million people socialism starts to become unwieldy, too many people trying to live without working. I think it works better in smaller countries.

As your wife keeps telling you, size doesn`t matter .
It has been adressed, and it`s a valid point.
If you had said communism, I would have agreed 100%, but believe it or not, there is a HUGE differnce between a social democracy and a communist state.

[quote="thejokeriv"]

Nazgul wrote:

I understand totally Olafsto. One big difference, did this get addressed?, is the size. With over 300 million people socialism starts to become unwieldy, too many people trying to live without working. I think it works better in smaller countries.

True - the next step after socialism is communism and that didn't work too well in Russia and China.

True, but what i`m talking about is what we here call a Social Democracy, don`t know if you have that term in US.
But the steps are: Social Democrat - Socialist - Communist.

Social Democracy is very different and i'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just really think that in a bigger country it gives a lot of power to the government and easily turns into a bad situation. Although we are in a bad situation now even with our so called checks and balances so who knows, maybe it's worth a shot.

Quote :

both Bush and the dems controlling congress are resposible for this economic mess, but so is Bill Clinton, he's the one on who originally changed the rules on sub prime mortgages. The truth is, we pay for mistakes of a president for years, so of them don't come to light until 10 - 20 years later.

True and this is where people don't understand economics. Bush sort of sealed the deal by allowing wider leeway to lending institutions supposedly to help minorities. Now we see the consequences when millions of people can't pay their loans when they come due and we all suffer.

[quote="Olafsto"]

thejokeriv wrote:

Nazgul wrote:

I understand totally Olafsto. One big difference, did this get addressed?, is the size. With over 300 million people socialism starts to become unwieldy, too many people trying to live without working. I think it works better in smaller countries.

True - the next step after socialism is communism and that didn't work too well in Russia and China.

True, but what i`m talking about is what we here call a Social Democracy, don`t know if you have that term in US.
But the steps are: Social Democrat - Socialist - Communist.

We sure do have that term

Nazgul wrote:

Social Democracy is very different and i'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just really think that in a bigger country it gives a lot of power to the government and easily turns into a bad situation. Although we are in a bad situation now even with our so called checks and balances so who knows, maybe it's worth a shot.

Quote :

both Bush and the dems controlling congress are resposible for this economic mess, but so is Bill Clinton, he's the one on who originally changed the rules on sub prime mortgages. The truth is, we pay for mistakes of a president for years, so of them don't come to light until 10 - 20 years later.

True and this is where people don't understand economics. Bush sort of sealed the deal by allowing wider leeway to lending institutions supposedly to help minorities. Now we see the consequences when millions of people can't pay their loans when they come due and we all suffer.

Yep - Barney Frank pushed it and Bush bought off on it

Bush created this mess and he can just walk away like nothing? I wish his whole personal world would cave in for what he did. He should be held responsible for his arrogance and stupidity. That being said won't change that the two canidates we are being forced to vote for won't do a damn thing but add to the mess. Sucks

Gene Simmons chimes in...

Quote :

"Just because you're in front of people doesn't mean you're qualified to do crap. I don't want my foreign policy to be decided in Malibu…by Sean Penn, for f*ck's sake… I mean that in a good way."