QUEENSRYCHE

Runicen wrote:

This sounds like I'm baiting for the flame war, but what's the deal with all the hate Promised Land gets?  Yeah, I get that it's not Empire Vol. 2, but it's a pretty dense record with good songs on it and doesn't seem that far removed from Mindcrime or Rage for Order as far as the writing and the tone of the thing.  It's easily my favorite from their catalog, even though it's got some pretty legendary company.

I bought it as a new release and found it to be too mellow and boring. It was quite a step down in my opinion from the discs that preceded it. Still, I hung in there as a fan, but things were about to change with the next release.

As mentioned, I recently picked up a used copy and found it to be more enjoyable than I remembered. It's still a little on the mellow side though. I don't know that I'll ever consider it a "classic", but it's not a bad listen and fits in well with their catalog.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Runicen wrote:

This sounds like I'm baiting for the flame war, but what's the deal with all the hate Promised Land gets?  Yeah, I get that it's not Empire Vol. 2, but it's a pretty dense record with good songs on it and doesn't seem that far removed from Mindcrime or Rage for Order as far as the writing and the tone of the thing.  It's easily my favorite from their catalog, even though it's got some pretty legendary company.

I bought it as a new release and found it to be too mellow and boring. It was quite a step down in my opinion from the discs that preceded it. Still, I hung in there as a fan, but things were about to change with the next release.

As mentioned, I recently picked up a used copy and found it to be more enjoyable than I remembered. It's still a little on the mellow side though. I don't know that I'll ever consider it a "classic", but it's not a bad listen and fits in well with their catalog.

It's a slow and kind of brooding record. I love it, always have, but I can totally dig why it was off-putting for a lot of people. Everything up to that point "rocked," but Promised Land isn't a "rockin" record. So yeah, I get why people were/are disappointed with it.

At the time it came out I felt Promised Land was a further move into almost Pink Floyd territory (which was hinted at on Mindcrime and Empire...especially Silent Lucidity). Plus you had uncharacteristic tracks like Disconnected. It was a little more experimental, a little more brooding as eyesore mentioned and overall kind of a "mood piece". I think the style of Promised Land is the reason I still like it now, when the more metal stuff doesn't really click with me much these days.

This is probably a case of "you had to be there." Empires, to me, is one of the weaker entries in the QR catalog. It had some good singles, but those feel overplayed like mad and the deeper cuts like "Della Brown" or "Anybody Listening" have a lot more appeal to me. The less said about the first two tracks, the better. Whoever thought synth brass would add to those tracks needs raked over hot coals.

I loved 'PL' from day one. It was dark, weird, melodic and brooding. Very un-'Empire'. With the earthy production, I always considered it a like a more organic version of 'RFO'.

I loved 'Promised Land' and thing with Queensryche is, same what you want but never made the same album twice, well til they got to the disastrous 'Operation Mindcrime 2' which even that some good moments here and there.

I liked the newest album with Todd, but I did not love it, maybe because I never purchased it I say this, but sounded like a band going back to its roots and getting nostalgia over a period of their career they had abandoned years ago.

It was good, but it was first time I felt that they were deliberate trying to sound like Queensryche instead of just a natural progression forward.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

I loved 'PL' from day one. It was dark, weird, melodic and brooding. Very un-'Empire'. With the earthy production, I always considered it a like a more organic version of 'RFO'.

That's an excellent description of the record. RFO always had this sterile "hospital" kind of vibe to it, but PL sounded like the hospital had been abandoned and nature had started to reclaim it.

Even though I wasn't a big fan of PL when it came out and haven't heard it in years, it had a level or creativity and professionalism that you don't find in many metal bands. It had some great moments. Going to listen to it again soon.

Let's move on, shall we?

What are your thoughts on American Soldier? I received a free promo copy when it was new and while I didn't expect much, I found it to be pretty good. I liked the concept and the songs, while again a bit on the mellow side, were likable. I know it got luke-warm reviews at best.

I recently pulled it out again to decide if it going to wind-up in the eBay pile or remain a keeper. I think I'm going to hold onto it.

What did you like or dislike about it?

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Let's move on, shall we?

What are your thoughts on American Soldier? I received a free promo copy when it was new and while I didn't expect much, I found it to be pretty good. I liked the concept and the songs, while again a bit on the mellow side, were likable. I know it got luke-warm reviews at best.

I recently pulled it out again to decide if it going to wind-up in the eBay pile or remain a keeper. I think I'm going to hold onto it.

What did you like or dislike about it?

I like the subject matter, lyrically Tate writes thoughtful and intelligent lyrics, this album was no exception. It had a more mellower vibe, perhaps because of the subject matter, not album I would spin a lot but certainly did nothing to tarnish their name or legacy

I've never heard American Soldier but I do think it is an interesting concept.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Let's move on, shall we?

What are your thoughts on American Soldier? I received a free promo copy when it was new and while I didn't expect much, I found it to be pretty good. I liked the concept and the songs, while again a bit on the mellow side, were likable. I know it got luke-warm reviews at best.

I recently pulled it out again to decide if it going to wind-up in the eBay pile or remain a keeper. I think I'm going to hold onto it.

What did you like or dislike about it?

I liked the concept, but I found the execution embarassing. Musically, they didn't seem like they were firing on all cylinders (which makes more sense given how the writing was handled) and by that point it made only too much sense to learn that DeGarmo was the one writing all the interesting vocal melodies. The songs didn't really stand out, the playing seemed very middle of the road and it was as if they were trying to float the album on, "See? Don't you love the troops? Well, then you have to like this!" It was the US military version of bad Christian rock.

Conceptually, it's a worthy effort, but that concept deserved much better treatment than it got here.

Runicen wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Let's move on, shall we?

What are your thoughts on American Soldier? I received a free promo copy when it was new and while I didn't expect much, I found it to be pretty good. I liked the concept and the songs, while again a bit on the mellow side, were likable. I know it got luke-warm reviews at best.

I recently pulled it out again to decide if it going to wind-up in the eBay pile or remain a keeper. I think I'm going to hold onto it.

What did you like or dislike about it?

I liked the concept, but I found the execution embarassing.  Musically, they didn't seem like they were firing on all cylinders (which makes more sense given how the writing was handled) and by that point it made only too much sense to learn that DeGarmo was the one writing all the interesting vocal melodies.  The songs didn't really stand out, the playing seemed very middle of the road and it was as if they were trying to float the album on, "See?  Don't you love the troops?  Well, then you have to like this!"  It was the US military version of bad Christian rock.

Conceptually, it's a worthy effort, but that concept deserved much better treatment than it got here.  

Your thoughts echo mine exactly! I was thinking their had to be a few songs that had some balls, but it was a total castration. What a great concept idea that went absolutely nowhere.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Let's move on, shall we?

What are your thoughts on American Soldier? I received a free promo copy when it was new and while I didn't expect much, I found it to be pretty good. I liked the concept and the songs, while again a bit on the mellow side, were likable. I know it got luke-warm reviews at best.

I recently pulled it out again to decide if it going to wind-up in the eBay pile or remain a keeper. I think I'm going to hold onto it.

What did you like or dislike about it?

I think "At 30,000 Feet" is a great song, but other than that it's pretty shitty. A nice idea, but just a musical failure overall. Easily the worst Queensryche album, even worse than Frequency Unknown.

What is the message of "American Soldier" anyway?  Seems pointless to me and just trying to find a segment of society to suck up to without any coherent message. If Ted Nugent wrote an album called "American Soldier" I guarantee his message, right or wrong, would not be in doubt.

Come to think of it, that is one of the big problems with modern QUEENSRYCHE in general.  One of the reasons songs like "I am I" couldn't connect with audiences.

Temple of Blood wrote:

What is the message of "American Soldier" anyway?  Seems pointless to me and just trying to find a segment of society to suck up to without any coherent message.  If Ted Nugent wrote an album called "American Soldier" I guarantee his message, right or wrong, would not be in doubt.

Come to think of it, that is one of the big problems with modern QUEENSRYCHE in general.  One of the reasons songs like "I am I" couldn't connect with audiences.

I never thought of it as either pro-war or anti-war. I thought the message was "remember the soldiers". It wasn't picking a side, just telling the story of the soldiers and the reality of what they do.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

What is the message of "American Soldier" anyway?  Seems pointless to me and just trying to find a segment of society to suck up to without any coherent message.  If Ted Nugent wrote an album called "American Soldier" I guarantee his message, right or wrong, would not be in doubt.

Come to think of it, that is one of the big problems with modern QUEENSRYCHE in general.  One of the reasons songs like "I am I" couldn't connect with audiences.

I never thought of it as either pro-war or anti-war. I thought the message was "remember the soldiers". It wasn't picking a side, just telling the story of the soldiers and the reality of what they do.

That was my take on it too, and it was telling the stories of these men and women who experience war. It started as an idea when Geoff Tate was speaking to his dad about experiences of as solider during a war

What are we supposed to learn from their stories?

Temple of Blood wrote:

What are we supposed to learn from their stories?

Maybe nothing...they were just stories.

Temple of Blood wrote:

What are we supposed to learn from their stories?

About their experiences

Temple of Blood wrote:

What are we supposed to learn from their stories?

I'm not familiar with the album but maybe the listener is supposed to make up their own mind about what the songs mean to them? Not everything needs to be completely spelled out, in fact most of my favorite novels and movies are the ones that leave elements open to the interpretation of the reader/viewer.

Stories are one thing. But even stories can have a POV. My question is what is Queensryche's POV. Pro-soldier? Anti-soldier? And why? Or undecided. It doesn't seem even clear why they think we should care about these soldiers experiences anymore than a soldier would care about a baker's experience. It just doesn't seem to be about anything, and like I said the Nuge for all his faults would never make this mistake. It's not too preposterous to ask why a band from Seattle would've even decided to broach this subject now and why they did.

Some bands are great with esoteric lyrics. My favorite is MIND OVER FOUR, who are the masters. I'm not sure QUEENSYCHE excels when they try this approach.

What does being from Seattle have to do with anything?

S.D. wrote:

What does being from Seattle have to do with anything?  

What does left wing politics have to do with singing odes to the military?

What does Seattle have to do with left-wing politics?

Maybe politics doesn't enter into it. Not every story about the military has to have a political bent.

I would be willing to bet that the population of Seattle doesn't consist solely of people with left-wing views. That's stereotyping nonsense.