QUEENSRYCHE

S.D. wrote:

The job of a recording engineer is to achieve the sound the producer and the band are envisioning. The engineer doesn't have a say in what the album will sound like, he is an employee who directly answers to the album producer.  A good engineer is also there to point out alternative approaches that might more accurately capture the sound the producer/band is looking for.  

Some producers are more hands-on than others and some producers also engineer the albums themselves.  Yes, some producers are "idea men", but others sit down at the console and get their hands dirty.  Many producers started out as engineers to begin with.

There are many different approaches (dots).

My point was that Producing, Engineering (Tracking) and Mixing are 3 separate acts, and, unless this guy is doing all 3 himself, someone else's hands will be turning the knobs while he filters/pushes everything along.

Yeah, but your point sounded like you were saying that is the only way this stuff happens and that is simply not the case.

S.D. wrote:

Yeah, but your point sounded like you were saying that is the only way this stuff happens and that is simply not the case.

No kidding.

I said:

Quote :

So, unless Zeuss is also mixing

AND

Quote :

Producing isn't mixing or engineering (although a Producer could do that on his own if he wanted to).

...which is essentially what you repeated.

Quote :

Some producers are more hands-on than others and some producers also engineer the albums themselves. Yes, some producers are "idea men", but others sit down at the console and get their hands dirty

To-MAY-tow, To-MAH-toe

Sheesh

Regardless, if an album sounds like shit the producer is to blame because he is the one approving the technical choices the engineer makes during recording and mix down.

The reason why I'm not making the distinction is because this guy tends to produce, engineer, mix, and master the albums he works on. Or a combination of those things. I'm assuming he's going to be doing the same with this album.

I'm a little curious as to where the switch-over occurred. Back in the '90s, it was a mark of pride that Queensryche would play with the sonics and expand on what they had done before - whether via going for a "full concept album" in Mindcrime over Rage for Order, or the lush singles approach in Empires, or the darker more impressionistic "Promised Land."

Yeah, it's been a rough ride with the Tate crap and so on, but I'm kind of at a loss for how people can love a band that, at its best, was always one step ahead of its audience and be totally crapping the bed over a "metal" producer being called in for the new album.

I mean, it could bomb. It could be a wretched experiment that crashes and burns. That said, I say let them have a go at it and see what comes out of it. I'm with S.D., QR2014 was muddy, overcrowded and not particularly well produced (and, as an odd aside, I have a friend who swears they auto-tuned the @#$# out of Todd's voice, which I can kind of hear as an odd chorusing and which is 100% unnecessary given how he pulls harder material off live based on crap Youtube vids). It would be hard NOT to improve on that.

Runicen wrote:

I'm a little curious as to where the switch-over occurred.  Back in the '90s, it was a mark of pride that Queensryche would play with the sonics and expand on what they had done before - whether via going for a "full concept album" in Mindcrime over Rage for Order, or the lush singles approach in Empires, or the darker more impressionistic "Promised Land."  

Yeah, it's been a rough ride with the Tate crap and so on, but I'm kind of at a loss for how people can love a band that, at its best, was always one step ahead of its audience and be totally crapping the bed over a "metal" producer being called in for the new album.

I mean, it could bomb.  It could be a wretched experiment that crashes and burns.  That said, I say let them have a go at it and see what comes out of it.  I'm with S.D., QR2014 was muddy, overcrowded and not particularly well produced (and, as an odd aside, I have a friend who swears they auto-tuned the @#$# out of Todd's voice, which I can kind of hear as an odd chorusing and which is 100% unnecessary given how he pulls harder material off live based on crap Youtube vids).  It would be hard NOT to improve on that.

They just look and see a guy who has worked with a lot of younger, heavier bands; bands they're not familiar with, therefore they assume he won't know how to produce Queensryche. You just can't win the argument, though. I mentioned the latest Sanctuary album and got a "Who the F*ck is Sanctuary" reply. I posted a video for the band Sanctity and the fact that they're labeled as "melodic thrash" was just more proof that Zeuss isn't good enough to handle a Queensryche album.

Sure, Sanctuary and Sanctity don't sound like Queensryche, but they're not so far removed from their sound as, say, Hatebreed is, or Agnostic Front.

The guy I was "arguing" with even had a go at Todd on his personal page. I guess because he'd been listening to Queensryche since 1986 and the band meant a lot to him, and others, that they owed it to those fans to pick a better producer. Absolutely hilarious, not to mention very sad.

Because up 'til Toddryche they were doing so well putting out albums. People need different hobbies.

I think the problem is that Tate confused everyone.  I mean, I'm torn as hell about the guy himself becuase...  I mean - DAT VOICE!  Well, what used to be DAT VOICE and is now more like ...ahem, dat croak.  But then you have his general dickery over the past decade or so and...  Yeah, you kind of want him to crash and burn...  But you also kind of want the glory days to come back.

So, with QR, the problem is (rightly or wrongly), with DeGarmo gone, Tate was the face of the band and him sucking as a human being kind of made the band suck in proportion.  I think that puts QR in this uphill climb of having to reassert constantly "We aren't the knob who used to sing for us," so they can't really put a foot right.

You pull up an old producer who did good work for them?  Now they're a nostalgia act.  You pull up a new producer who is working with more modern metal bands?  They're forgetting their roots.  Hell, if you got Steven Wilson to produce their next album (ok, that'd be kind of cool), someone would accuse them of turning into Opeth or something.

I'm just trying to enjoy the ride as a fan, hoping the next album is gangbusters awesome and that Tate manages to recover some of his lost talent and that this "trilogy" of his turns out to be the moment he chooses to get his voice back in shape and remind us all why we gave a crap about him in the first place.  That's the ultimate win-win.

EDIT: Re-read that last paragraph. I should be clear, I'm hoping that SEPARATELY they do awesome work. I wouldn't wish a reunion on them 10 years from now, let alone now after everything that went down. I just hope that, with the "divorce" finalized, they can just get on with the business of making awesome music.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Tate to recover that talent.

I know it wasn't exactly yesterday, but I would have considered his voice shot back in 2000 and he pulled it together spectacularly even on the WORST recordings I've seen from the '06 tour. I suspect it's possible if he doesn't keep damaging his instrument... And reputation. Won't matter for the world that he got his voice back if he keeps pissing people off.

Tate needs to move on from the old catalog because his voice cannot reach those high registers any longer. But if he stays low to mid, he still sounds good. That's part of the reason so many old catalog numbers were dropped when he was still in the band. He used the excuse of moving on artistically, which I'm sure there's a nugget of truth to, but in reality we all know it has to do with loss of range.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Tate needs to move on from the old catalog because his voice cannot reach those high registers any longer. But if he stays low to mid, he still sounds good. That's part of the reason so many old catalog numbers were dropped when he was still in the band. He used the excuse of moving on artistically, which I'm sure there's a nugget of truth to, but in reality we all know it has to do with loss of range.

Exactly.

Although sadly he seems to struggle on some of those songs in the lower ranger now, too. =(

I get that and can even get over it except for the crap he pulled in the meantime.

Dark Horseman wrote:

Don't hold your breath waiting for Tate to recover that talent.

Yeah, plan on Tate's Operation:Mindcrime to suck.

I'm willing to bet that the new Queensryche will be much better that whatever Tate comes out with

thejokeriv wrote:

Dark Horseman wrote:

Don't hold your breath waiting for Tate to recover that talent.

Yeah, plan on Tate's Operation:Mindcrime to suck.

I'm willing to bet that the new Queensryche will be much better that whatever Tate comes out with

Depends on who's involved. Frontiers has a LOT of great songwriters working for them. If it's just another Tater-Slater album, then it'll probably be weak: a couple good tunes, maybe a really good one, and a bunch of turds rounding it out. However, if he works with someone like Magnus Karlsson, it'll probably kick all kinds of ass.

Can't make much from this, but it's a taste:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155367785520523

I highly doubt The Geoff would let someone else come in and write songs. He can screw that up on his own haha

I just watched that clip really didn't show much at all. I read the comments and I find it odd that people are saying it sounds great! THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAR YET!! lol

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

I highly doubt The Geoff would let someone else come in and write songs. He can screw that up on his own haha

I just watched that clip really didn't show much at all. I read the comments and I find it odd that people are saying it sounds great! THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAR YET!! lol

You can barely hear some other things like vocals and guitar, but really it's just some dude playing a simple drum beat. You definitely can't hear enough to say anything, good or bad.

Well, it's been a while and it seems like it's time to dust off the old Queensryche thread...

Seems to be a general trend in my posts lately, but I picked up a second hand copy of Tribe on a record shopping binge over the weekend. It was the last QR album I remember feeling SOUNDED like QR, but I also remember hating it after living with it for a few months on release.

Going back over it, there are moments where it becomes a bit bland, but now it seems like a logical mid-point between HitNF (which I don't mind), Q2K (which has also grown on me) and Empires oddly enough. It's more "pop" metal writing, but the songs themselves have substance to them and DeGarmo's (temporary) return meant that the vocal melodies were largely pretty interesting.

I have to say that I was overly harsh on this one back when it came out - not least of all in comparison to what came out afterwards...

Does anyone else have any love for this one?

Don't believe I've ever heard Tribe. I was initially disappointed with Promised Land (which I recently re-purchased and enjoy) and really disliked Hear In the Now Frontier. I was done with them after that. Only after we got free copies at work of Operation:Mindcrime II and their Greatest Hits did I bother with them again.

I've never heard Tribe. And like MG, I was disappointed in Promised Land and never gave anything after it a listen except for Mindcrime II, and that one was bought out curiosity. I think that one is just ok so it hasn't made me want to go out and purchase any of the other newer releases by the band.

This sounds like I'm baiting for the flame war, but what's the deal with all the hate Promised Land gets? Yeah, I get that it's not Empire Vol. 2, but it's a pretty dense record with good songs on it and doesn't seem that far removed from Mindcrime or Rage for Order as far as the writing and the tone of the thing. It's easily my favorite from their catalog, even though it's got some pretty legendary company.

I just thought it was pretty weak, song wise. Quite a disappointment from what came before it. There are a few good tracks on it but it was just the start of the downward slope. Maybe my opinion on it would change if I heard again but I'm not itching to go out and buy it anytime soon.

Promised Land is actually the only Queensryche album I still listen to occasionally (once every 3 or 4 years).

Tribe is okay, which is a shame since DeGarmo co-wrote most of it. I think Q2K is a lot better, though.