Have started listening to Christian Metal

Gotta love Horde. There's a fun little thread on them somewhere around here.

ultmetal wrote:

Christian black metal, ANTESTOR seems to be pretty popular.

Antestor's Return of the Black Death is great!

I like my black metal with a little more melody like Extol. I do enjoy A Hill to Die Upon and 7 Horns 7 Eyes.

exact33 wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Christian black metal, ANTESTOR seems to be pretty popular.

Antestor's Return of the Black Death is great!

Dark Horseman wrote:

I like my black metal with a little more melody like Extol. I do enjoy A Hill to Die Upon and 7 Horns 7 Eyes.

A Hill to die upon is great. I actually scored a copy of Antestor's -- Return of the Black Death for like 4 bucks.

I have this weird love/hate relationship with Grave Declaration. Like, when I listen to them I either love them or keep thinking "there are better (secular) bands out there." However, for unblack, they're one of the best, especially in symphonic black metal. Crimson Moonlight and Dark Lay Still are really good as well. Frost Like Ashes is...okay. Too brutal for my tastes, but I tend to like more symphonic black metal.

Since I'm no longer Christian, I find it hard to listen to bands with a high JPM (Jesus per minute) count. I think they're amazing bands and talented musicians/songwriters but I"m just uncomfortable listening to them.

Short-Fuse wrote:

How about some Christian un-black metal, Frost Like Ashes?

If I live till I'm 200 years old I will never understand Christian black metal  

As for lyrics, it occurred to me the other day that two of my favorite bands of the moment sing in languages that I don't speak (Alcest - French and Seremonia - Finnish) it doesn't matter to me in the least.

They play black metal music. They have Christian lyrics. What's so hard to understand about that?

TheGreatDuck wrote:

They play black metal music. They have Christian lyrics. What's so hard to understand about that?

Everything, black metal is about individuality, non conformity, rebellion, dark emotions and death. That's what black metal is. I have nothing against Christians, I hope that you all know me well enough to know that but I prefer Christianity when it's about love, forgiveness, faith, peace and hope, not bunging on the corpse paint, using the same imagery as the satanic bands and growling about the wrath of God.

As I have said, there are Christians that I admire very much and they are the ones that live the Gospel, The Cross & the Switchblade has always been one of my favorite books. A guy who firmly believed that God was calling him to do something that he had no desire to do, so he did it, at great personal risk and whether I or anyone else believes in God, you can't really deny that he had a hugely positive effect on many kids who were otherwise destined for horrible lives. You have to admire that kind of faith, courage and conviction.

Christian black metal on the other hand just seems like a cop out.

Boris2008 wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

They play black metal music. They have Christian lyrics. What's so hard to understand about that?

Everything, black metal is about individuality, non conformity, rebellion, dark emotions and death. That's what black metal is. I have nothing against Christians, I hope that you all know me well enough to know that but I prefer Christianity when it's about love, forgiveness, faith, peace and hope

1. If believing in anything at all removes one's individuality, then mine is stripped away every time I get in the car to drive or make any choice at all in the context of "right" or "wrong". The implication here is weak.

2. Most Christians are Christian by name or by upbringing, more churches than not are crooked, and everybody else judges one group based solely on that. There's no place in discussion, polls, or any other fair area of speech for the small group against all of the above.

3. See #2.

4. Try believing in an objective philosophy that forces you to deal with your own darkness and struggle therein every day, in the midst of a sea of people who don't, won't, or can't understand for a bevy of reasons, now do it for years and become isolated even within "your group" (see #2, #3), and see if the coldness, hypocrisy, and confusion of everything doesn't conjure "dark emotions". What "dark emotions" are crooked churches and bloodthirsty anti-religious groups feeling? The dark emotions of being schoolyard bullies and tongue twisters?

5. Christianity focuses as much on futility as nihilism does, and #4 amplifies it. Both are forced to *because the world chooses to run in a way which demands that attention*. Nihilism simply removes the objective viewpoint or "light at the end of the tunnel" if you will. Neither group believes the natural state of humanity is an upward spiral, we simply believe there is more "universal" methodry that can be worked within in order to rise from our morass. When you take that into account and then yet see the endless failure of the world and yourself, I'm not sure how death, either in a philisophical or literal light, could be seen as not part of this.

6. I could have skipped all this and pointed you to various testimonies of martyrdom that all flesh out the same ideas, but the point is it's relevant then and now and the broadbrush approach you're taking only fuels the problem.


Further, the fact that Christ *is* about all the things you mentioned, and we aren't, in itself opens the door to answer your confusion.


These issues tend to produce a variety of artistic expression, black metal being one of them. Unless the band is shamelessly aping a more known act and simply trying to "Christianize" it (many don't), there's no lack of legitimacy in the idea.

As ever OCI your reply is not short on intelligence and a well constructed argument. It's true that I don't know enough about Christian BM or indeed Christianity to offer anything other than a broadbrush argument although I fail to see how my offering an opinion 'fuels' anything.

You have definitely given me something to think about, it probably hasn't really changed my mind as I still feel that much black metal has an anti Christian viewpoint due to the anger that some people feel about the loss of cultural and spiritual heritage when Christianity was violently sweeping across Europe and black metal is at least for some bands a reclamation of that heritage. Shoehorning Christianity back into the equation just seems to be sticking two fingers up to those who feel they have had something stolen from them. (I'm not one of them btw, I'm firmly atheist)

All of that said, I'm not really a fan of massively negative music these days, whatever the spiritual philosophy.

To me, black metal is just a form of musical entertainment. It's not an ideology, a way of life, or thought process. So to say christians can't play "true" black metal is stupid. Calling it "unblack metal" is just as stupid. It doesn't reverse the style of metal played. If a christian can play metalcore & thrash & death... then he can play black metal. Simple as that.

mc666 wrote:

To me, black metal is just a form of musical entertainment. It's not an ideology, a way of life, or thought process. So to say christians can't play "true" black metal is stupid. Calling it "unblack metal" is just as stupid. It doesn't reverse the style of metal played. If a christian can play metalcore & thrash & death... then he can play black metal. Simple as that.

Hear hear!!

To say black metal can't exist in a Christian market is like saying Christian metal can't exist in a metal or secular market. Metal, or really Rock as a genre transcends moral obligation and defines rebellion, including but not limited to disregard for religious standards of decency. So if we're splitting hairs the Christian Metal tag should be blasphemy as much as Christian Black Metal. But why nitpick when we obviously can have our cake and eat it too?

I've no desire to offend anyone but I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else so I leave it there.  

Yes but as your friends we feel the need to change your opinion when your wrong. It's all in love, of course.






NOW this is truly a Christian thread!  

corplhicks wrote:

Yes but as your friends we feel the need to change your opinion when your wrong. It's all in love, of course.






NOW this is truly a Christian thread!  

 

kmorg wrote:

mc666 wrote:

To me, black metal is just a form of musical entertainment. It's not an ideology, a way of life, or thought process. So to say christians can't play "true" black metal is stupid. Calling it "unblack metal" is just as stupid. It doesn't reverse the style of metal played. If a christian can play metalcore & thrash & death... then he can play black metal. Simple as that.

Hear hear!!

This!

Singwhatyoucan'tsay wrote:

kmorg wrote:

mc666 wrote:

To me, black metal is just a form of musical entertainment. It's not an ideology, a way of life, or thought process. So to say christians can't play "true" black metal is stupid. Calling it "unblack metal" is just as stupid. It doesn't reverse the style of metal played. If a christian can play metalcore & thrash & death... then he can play black metal. Simple as that.

Hear hear!!

This!

yep. I am always amused when metalheads say Christian metal is an oxymoron because metal is about non conformity, rebellion, etc. Christian metal is rebellion and non-conformity against what metalheads say metal is.

LOL @ Exact Good one

Everybody knows Metal is about Loud Loud Loud music with cookie monster or people with high pitch voices scream their brains out :p