General Opinions on Dream Theater

I can't agree more on the positive stuff said about awake. It is far and away my favorite dt album.

I didn't buy it however, until well after I was introduced to train of thought. I'm glad for that though, I don't think I could have handled the prog elements of it earlier in life when i was all metal all the time. Train of thought was the right medicine at the right time to introduce me to prog. I really grew into the Moore stuff in a big way after that though. Awake is the absolute cream of the crop.

Awake is my favorite, by far. I own most of their albums, but I'd be fine with just Images, Awake, Change, and Scenes.

The first DT album I owned was Scenes in '99 when it had just come out, and I really loved that album, still do because it was my first exposure. I followed them for the next few records, but I think I got bored of the repetitive/predicable aspect of the music as time passed by. I still enjoy them, but looking back, they aren't the best band in the genre.

On a side note, I was once at a wedding where Derek Sherinian was my friends date and he sat right across me. She had no clue who he was except that he was musician. Turned out to be a really cool guy, even sent me some of his solo albums and an Ayreon album he appeared that I already had which I'm positive I sent to Scott (01011001). She ended up marrying one of his friends that he introduced and I was an usher. So that's my DT connection.

Dream Theater...... didn't like them when I first heard them. Those damn double bass drums pounding through everything.... and then one day they just clicked. Awake is by far their best album and has a mood on it that none of the others have(check out Chroma Key(Kevin Moore) - Dead Air For Radios for more of that). Like everything up to SFAM then everything just got samey, except for Train Of Thought. Still listen to them, but I am not the fanboy I once was.

Can tolerate first two. Maybe even like them. Awake I had to turn off, but seeing the comments about it, I feel like revisiting the album once again. After that Dream Theater became annoying and drives me mad, literally.
Always preferred Fates Warning.

For some reason I just got full up with some of the big prog metal bands. I don't know why as I still like prog. I pretty much cut loose of Fates after Parallels, Queensryche after Empire, and Dream Theatre after Images & Words. Those were pretty accessible albums and some of the later stuff that I tried seemed generally kinda gloomy and serious. Can't say I've really given any of those bands a chance though since. Not sure why, maybe I just had better things to spend money on.

I'm been a fan for a long time, and Images and Words is up there amongst my all-time favourite albums. Like most of the responses here, I'd say that the earlier albums were the best. For me they started to lose it a bit after Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.

But I thought A Dramatic Turn of Events something of a return to form, being their best album since Six Degrees, so I'm definitely looking forward to their new one.

corplhicks wrote:

In all honesty--and I hope other fans can agree with me here--it's a completely different album than anything else they've ever released. In part this is frustrating: they refuse to revisit this complexity with every recording, and I scratch my head as to why.

I wonder - could it be that Awake's sound was mostly due to Kevin Moore? Rudess's style is different - much more a virtuoso than into the atmospheric stuff, so maybe that's why they haven't done anything resembling Awake since then.

Amazing records up to and including 'SFAM'...gradually became less and less of a fan after that, though I did go see them on the Prog Nation tour when BC&SL came out.

Images And Words is great and the only one of their's I own. I heard Awake through a friend but just wasn't impressed with it. I gave up on them and haven't heard a Dream Theater song since that album.

Citanul wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

In all honesty--and I hope other fans can agree with me here--it's a completely different album than anything else they've ever released. In part this is frustrating: they refuse to revisit this complexity with every recording, and I scratch my head as to why.

I wonder - could it be that Awake's sound was mostly due to Kevin Moore?  Rudess's style is different - much more a virtuoso than into the atmospheric stuff, so maybe that's why they haven't done anything resembling Awake since then.

I believe so. Moore is from the school of Brian Eno, exploring ambient textures and all that. Rudess is a showman. Chewie mentioned Chroma Key which is the best way to see Kevin Moore--and the possibility why he left DT--working with his abstract of choice. Rudess bugs me, though. Even Derek was a better choice IMO. Rudess just likes to play on top of the music whereas Moore would integrate it.

But OCI has it down--the band has been trying way too hard to emulate nu-metal stylings. On Awake, John detuned his guitar or seven-stringed to experiment. Now it seems he does it just to sound like all our current radio wonders.

Again, though, I'm discounting their latest album from this opinion since I haven't heard it.

corplhicks wrote:

Rudess just likes to play on top of the music whereas Moore would integrate it.

Portnoy mentions that on the SFNY DVD commentary where the music slows down and he wanted the piano to play some simple passages. Ruddess did not do that.

Which is interesting, because I thought he played something slow and simple on the first LTE album. I could be wrong.

chewie wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

Rudess just likes to play on top of the music whereas Moore would integrate it.

Portnoy mentions that on the SFNY DVD commentary where the music slows down and he wanted the piano to play some simple passages. Ruddess did not do that.

Which is interesting, because I thought he played something slow and simple on the first LTE album. I could be wrong.

You're right, but it was very stiff and dull as well. LTE was a different beast altogether.

This may be my favorite DT instrumental (part of the Awake sessions):

I like them, but I have to be in the mood for them. They can get a bit boring at times because they are not song oriented, but rather focus on technique and being as complex as humanly possible.

ultmetal wrote:

I like them, but I have to be in the mood for them. They can get a bit boring at times because they are not song oriented, but rather focus on technique and being as complex as humanly possible.

I can understand this, but something interesting about DT is that 90% of their songs are structured according to the basic pop formula: verse-chorus-verse-chorus-instrumental-(verse)-chorus with a possible bridge. Sometimes there can be a variation on the second verse, like with Pull Me Under. It's just that the change-ups with time signatures and length in instrumental sections, among other factors, add to the complexity.

On a side note, here's the cover art for the new album out 9/24. Not much to it compared to past covers:

corplhicks wrote:

On a side note, here's the cover art for the new album out 9/24. Not much to it compared to past covers:

I like it, I like it more than I'm likely to like the record! 

I like Images & Words, Awake and Scenes from a Memory.... but I used to like them more. It's not Dream Theater though. It's actually been a couple of years now that I've been "off" of prog metal. I just want something less pretentious and more genuine. Less mathematical and more musical. More emotion, more unabashed melodies, bands with clear direction and poise. Not the elitist "complex is automatically better".

I used to love prog metal because it was so hard to wrap your brain around it - because it had everything in it and more. I used to listen to a ton of prog metal bands, and at times I listened to nothing but prog metal. But after awhile I started to see through it more and more (or shall we say, I just personally did not like the prog approach to metal as much anymore), and a lot of it actually had less ideas than your "generic" short and to-the-point metal songs. Especially the bad prog bands. They had barely had any musical ideas. They just wrapped it in fluff and an album of maybe 10 minutes of worthwhile interesting ideas were surrounded by 60 minutes of random notes and stuff they probably improvised at band practise. I've heard enough band practises in my life. When I buy something, I expect it to have worthwhile ideas (melodies and riffs that speak to me, emotion). Something that says something.

And that dislike of the genre has kind of spread to Dream Theater. They are indeed the leaders of the genre, and that's why they also take a lot of the heat.

Obviously they are among the best bands in the genre. And prog metal is not bad. It's just a little on and off. You need to be into it and dedicate a lot of effort to "get" what you're listening. And if what you find after putting that effort into it pleases you, it can be very satisfying. Just like reading a good book. But when it's bad... it feels like you've wasted weeks of your time.

corplhicks wrote:

I can understand this, but something interesting about DT is that 90% of their songs are structured according to the basic pop formula: verse-chorus-verse-chorus-instrumental-(verse)-chorus with a possible bridge.

Although you often don't realise as a lot of the time the verse part can be quite long on made up of multiple parts before they get to the chorus. One of the things I like about Dream Theater is that they do try to create memorable melodies. I've listened to some prog metal albums that immediately after the album has come to an end I can't really remember any of the songs I just heard, but I feel that Dream Theater get it right for the most part.

Citanul wrote:

But I thought A Dramatic Turn of Events something of a return to form, being their best album since Six Degrees, so I'm definitely looking forward to their new one.

Totally agree. And after not 'getting' Awake for years, it's finally clicked. It's unlike anything else they've recorded, and as has been said many times, Kevin Moore's departure was a huge loss.

corplhicks wrote:

So it's generally regarded that Dream Theater is king of Prog Metal, or at least they're the most well-known of the bunch, but after combing the board it seems there is a standard of dislike, or at least neutrality, toward the band. What is you current opinion on DT, and if you like them what is their best era? Overrated? Underrated?

As for me, I love the band, but I don't worship them. They were my fist exposure to prog metal and Pull Me Under was one of my first metal experiences. I do feel though that their songwriting was more dense and complex with Kevin Moore in the group. Awake was, IMHO, the greatest progressive album I'd heard out of many, and lyrically the strongest metal album in the genre (Space Dye Vest FTW). Though subsequent albums were lesser, there was still a lot to write home about (Metropolis 2 was quite a fun romp). From Systematic Chaos on, however, things became quite stale as production became dull, lyrics got goofy, self-cannibalization was evident, and things got very "samey." I can't say I've heard much of the latest album without Portnoy so no opinion there yet. I've also always been unsure of Rudess' noodling. It seems to be the same with every solo.

IMO John Petrucci is one of the greatest guitarists out there (although his solo project left a lot to be desired).

Great musicians undoubtably but I cant stand their music though.

I like a couple of songs, but that's it.

Hopefully the new guys writing will make the new album stand out more so than the last one, which sounded lifeless.

I love Dream Theater but I can never listen to them for a long period of time. Every person in that band is one of the bets in the world at what they do...except for LaBrie. I just can't take his voice for very long. Whenever I listen to them, I honestly just tune him out and listen the other instruments.
I think Mike Portnoy is up there with Nicko McBrain with being my favorite drummers

I'm listening to the "song" six degrees of inner turbulence and I can't help but think the song would be regarded as one of DT's seminal works if it was released as an album right after awake. This material is definetly some of there rush-iest stuff to date. Looking at it as a separate album from disc 1, I think it is one of their most focused efforts balancing the bombast with quite a bit of restraint (for DT ).

What do you guys think of SDOIT disc 2?