Black Sabbath - Forbidden

Nothing from the Tony Martin lineup would make my top 30 Sabbath.

Oh, several would for me, easily!

I scored the Japanese import!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Sabbath-Forbidden-Japan-1-Sticker-/121278415372?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=JIUINZ5HdfeDLVyvY8rVUt3PxAw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Another one up for bidding...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Sabbath-Forbidden-Japan-Obi-w-Sticker-1-Bonus-Track-1st-Press-/271410632533?pt=Music_CDs&hash=item3f31559755

I have plenty of Martin songs that crack my Top 30 for Sabbath.

I just wish Iommi would get around to doing the rest of deluxe editions for the Martin albums. I have a feeling that will never happen though.

Honestly, I would've taken the deluxe editions over the Ozzy reunion.

Metal Misfit wrote:

I have plenty of Martin songs that crack my Top 30 for Sabbath.

There are quite a few good songs, overall the albums range from nice to bad. I was so disappointed after buying The Eternal Idol with only Shining being a good song. Headless Cross has some good songs if you don't take the lyrics too serious or be somebody who still believes and god and all the crap. Tyr has some good songs.
Forbidden has the proper name, it should be forbidden.

To each their own, I happen to think "The Eternal Idol" is a damn fine lp, and "The Shinning" is about my least favorite track on there. Can't believe more folks aren't all geeked up on "Ancient Warrior!"   

As for "Forbidden", love that one!

I don't think that anyone has said that they don't like the Martin era. It's just that up to and including Mob Rules is pure gold. I think that some of those Martin era songs are very good, but they would need to be a whole lot better than very good to even crack the top 50 for me. One of my biggest problems with even the better ones is that they have that late 80's sound, which isn't to my taste, but I honestly think that whenever Iommi plugs in a guitar, something pretty cool comes out.

Had "Headless Cross" came out at the time and instead of "Seventh Star", it would've been HUGE!

I am a Sabbath fanatic - but this album is a bowel movement compared to what came before and after. The only Sabbath album I do not have.

Yea, well I'm a Sabbath fanatic as well, and I really dig this one...so there!   

candlemass wrote:

Had "Headless Cross" came out at the time and instead of "Seventh Star", it would've been HUGE!

I agree. It was a few years off the mark and Iommi & the Sabbath name had such a messy time from Gillan's run up to The Eternal Idol (and even afterwards, really) that it was overlooked, as was The Eternal Idol. I love Seventh Star though. Very disappointed with the two Iommi/Hughes collaborations since.

People knock the lyrics from Headless Cross but tons of bands at that time were writing in a very simple, gimmicky and obvious way. Tony Martin has said he only wrote lyrics that he *thought* was expected from a Sabbath album and has stated that no one, even Iommi, ever questioned his lyrics or made suggestions, even when Martin would ask for input. Of course, then you have Iommi going on his his autobiography knocking Martin's lyrics, but that's the Sabbath way -- be agreeable and passive, then when their back is turned, come out with the criticism. He's since said that he regrets a lot of the "spooky" lyrics for that album though. I think he grew a lot as a lyricist from album to album. Cross Purposes was probably his high point though.

I have to agree that Tony Martin grew as a lyricist since 'Headless Cross'. IMO 'Headless Cross' is an excellent Black Sabbath album, not sure if calling the band Iommi or something else would have helped sales more.

Missing Geezer Butler, very true, but Iommi's killer riffs are still present and Tony Martin certainly did nothing to shame the name or legacy of the name Black Sabbath.

That being said, I find 'Forbidden' to be their worst album, completely uninspired and it seems all parties involved wanted to get the album over and done with and move on.

manny wrote:

Missing Geezer Butler, very true, but Iommi's killer riffs are still present and Tony Martin certainly did nothing to shame the name or legacy of the name Black Sabbath.

Iommi was lucky to have found Martin, IMO. An incredibly gifted singer who was willing to take the abuse and torment of always having a Ozzy/Dio reunion looming over his head.

I think Iommi did more to damage the band during this time-frame than Martin did.

Metal Misfit wrote:

manny wrote:

Missing Geezer Butler, very true, but Iommi's killer riffs are still present and Tony Martin certainly did nothing to shame the name or legacy of the name Black Sabbath.

Iommi was lucky to have found Martin, IMO. An incredibly gifted singer who was willing to take the abuse and torment of always having a Ozzy/Dio reunion looming over his head.

I think Iommi did more to damage the band during this time-frame than Martin did.

Those Black Sabbath albums at the time were not only ignored but got a critical pounding, not just from the usual suspects at Rolling Stone, Spin and other magazines, but the metal press. Then suddenly in mid 2000's all the albums started getting reevaluated and have been getting some critical props. What harmed the band was Iommi replacing band members left and right.

Tony martin is the best sabbath singer. Even better than dio. And surely better than ozzy.

Gilbert wrote:

Tony martin is the best sabbath singer. Even better than dio. And surely better than ozzy.

He might technically be a better singer than Ozzy, but he was NOT a better singer for Black Sabbath.

I like Martin's voice but I wouldn't say he was better than Dio. Ozzy? Maybe...

Tony sounded great live up 'till about 90, when he came back in 94 his voice was not as strong live as it once was, and he'd be the first to tell you that...

Metal Misfit wrote:

candlemass wrote:

Had "Headless Cross" came out at the time and instead of "Seventh Star", it would've been HUGE!

I agree. It was a few years off the mark and Iommi & the Sabbath name had such a messy time from Gillan's run up to The Eternal Idol (and even afterwards, really) that it was overlooked, as was The Eternal Idol. I love Seventh Star though. Very disappointed with the two Iommi/Hughes collaborations since.

People knock the lyrics from Headless Cross but tons of bands at that time were writing in a very simple, gimmicky and obvious way. Tony Martin has said he only wrote lyrics that he *thought* was expected from a Sabbath album and has stated that no one, even Iommi, ever questioned his lyrics or made suggestions, even when Martin would ask for input. Of course, then you have Iommi going on his his autobiography knocking Martin's lyrics, but that's the Sabbath way -- be agreeable and passive, then when their back is turned, come out with the criticism. He's since said that he regrets a lot of the "spooky" lyrics for that album though. I think he grew a lot as a lyricist from album to album. Cross Purposes was probably his high point though.

I was not at all disappointed w/"Fused", in fact I think it a better lp than "Seventh Star."

Nothing wrong w/Tony's writing on that lp, other than the too many "Satan per minute quota!"   

I may be in the minority here, but as I look across the entire net, it's a growing minority that has re-visited this lp and found it quite enjoyable. Far from uninspired, a lot of hooks and melodies that make for some really enjoyable songs, just lacks the epic jams that made Sabbath special in the past...

Damn shame about that opening track, reworked a bit, different lyrics, vocal melody, that could've been the epic song that album lacked...

Never heard Forbidden, but when I'm in the mood for Sabbath, I usually go for Headless Cross - Cross Purposes timeframe (Dehumanizer included). Kind of grew tired of H&H, and can't stand Ozzy.