Why Venom is on-par with Black Sabbath

Quote :

In 1981, Venom released Welcome to Hell, a noted influence on Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax.
In 1982 they released Black Metal, which gave a genre a name and
confirmed Venom's large scale arena status. In 1983, they paved the way
for Progressive Thrash like Heathen and specific albums by Megadeth and Metallica (Rust in Peace and Justice, respectively).



Venom's dark and evil lyrics that got them success found them at the helm of darkness and lead the pack of bands like Possessed and Sepultura, who pioneered an early style of Death Metal.



Venom's raw satanic speed lead way to albums like Kill Em All by Metallica.



Venom created Thrash Metal, pioneered Speed Metal, created and named
Black Metal and lead the way to 3/4 extreme metal genres. Cronos'
trademark growl was a distinct influence on the death metal bands Death and Deicide.



All in all, for heavy metal, Black Sabbath
was no doubt the most important band by far. But in terms of innovation
and influence, Venom destroy even Black Sabbath's satanic masterpieces.

Quoting this from some dudes journal. I understand that Venom is a big influence and that it influenced most thrash, black, death metal bands but, sabbath influenced those bands too and heavy metal, doom/stoner rock bands. Sabbath also surpasses the metal genre influencing moderen rock, hip hop/rap and pop groups. This is why I don't think venom is on par with sabbath.

KissinMaiden wrote:

This is why I don't think venom is on par with sabbath.

Agreed. Who came first the chicken or the egg? Sabbath or Venom? There would be no heavy music without Sabbath(along with some other bands from the '60s and '70s) IMO.

That fails to mention that Black Sabbath was great, while Venom was complete poo.

Eyesore wrote:

That fails to mention that Black Sabbath was great, while Venom was complete poo.

Venom wasn't complete caca, i like em...just not as much as sabbath

Everything said in that post is true. However, Black Sabbath inspired them!

It's just some dudes journal. Nothing more, nothing less. Sabbath above all, especially Venom.

I liked the first few Venom albums. They inspired a lot of bands, but then again, so did Diamond Head, Raven, Iron Maiden, Celtic Frost, etc. However, on par with Sabbath? Not even.

I know you're just baiting us here...but I'll fall for it. Innovation? Venom was just recycling basic rock and roll; the only innovations were extreme delivery and content. Sabbath on the other hand, made enduring contibutions to several genres (Doom, Power Metal, Prog Metal) that are recognizable to this day. They also were able to integrate somebody as creative as Rick Wakeman into some of their music. That's innovation!

i love Venom! always will too. however, you CANNOT compare their importance to metal in general to Sabbath. to Black metal? sure, but not to the entire metal genre. Sabbath started it all & continued it. Venom basically just added to it & then survived.

Sabbath had musical talent.

I don't even know why they're being compared? It's like apples and oranges.

You know what? I somewhat agree. They are not on par, as someone else said, Sabbath was first! But I can truly see that Venom spawned more sub-genres then say Iron Maiden, Def Leppard or Saxon (other acts from the same period). So I agree and disagree at the same time.

man i like the few bits of nenom i have hear but the sound was not on par with sabbath. the article makes out as if venom invented heavy metal the honour of which surely goes to black sabbath

If there were no Sabbath, there would've been no Venom!!!

precisely the point sir

VENOM is one of my fave bands ever. I love BLACK SABBATH too. VENOM wrote very good, short and not complex songs (AT WAR WITH SATAN was a exception of course lol) and thats what we fans loved about them. BLACK SABBATH were more tecnical and wrote more complex doomy songs and i love them for that too. Without SABBATH i dont think VENOM would have been around years after. SABBATH are the god fathers of heavy metal, together with JUDAS PRIEST.

Venom doesnt even come close to Sabbath

I would pay to see a competition between Bill Ward and Abaddon for the sloppiest drummer of all time.

spectrefate wrote:

I would pay to see a competition between Bill Ward and Abaddon for the sloppiest drummer of all time.

lol bill ward is alright but i'll admit hes sloppy. vinny appice was a much better fit when he joined sabbath

Thats your opinion and i respect it but VENOM created very violent and
aggressive music, special for 1980 and they have been a very big
influence on many bands. I dont like to compare them with BLACK SABBATH
but i think that BLACK SABBATH had more class and VENOM was more a
street punk/metal band with a raw and violent attitude and we have to
respect that. HAIL VENOM, and HAIL BLACK SABBATH

Don't people just love baiting. As for the question no doubt in my mind Black Sabbath have had such a profound influence on generations of music that it dwarf's Venom's (ahem) legacy, think about this Black Sabbath has been the root of a quite a few rock n' roll trends and movements since they graced the earth. The initial metal movement was spearheaded by Sabbath in the early 70's, then Sabbath being the main band at the root of the second wave of metal(NWOBHM) in the early 80's, Doom Metal was next around in the mid 80's, Black Sabbath shared equal billing with the Stooges as the main inspiration of the Seattle grunge movement in the late 80's early 90's, Stoner Rock was the next in the 90's and then today in what you see with the so called 'hipster metal' movement with bands like Wolfmother, Priestess, The Sword etc. Then compare this with Venom's influence it only affects Extreme Metal which I have to say is a small fish in a big pond. But i'll tell you this though the whole if there was no Black Sabbath there would be no Venom thing is rubbish, its like saying if there was no Black Sabbath there would be no Motorhead. Venom's single biggest influence has to be Motorhead, Motorhead in itself is just old 50's and 60's rock n' roll sped up and played way loud it doesn't adhere to any hard rock/metal or punk rules it is just a desendant from the old rock n' roll. As for Venom's lyrics and shock satanism, Black Sabbath never had that many satan references if anything Led Zeppelin was more explicit or played it up more particuarly through Jimmy Page. But anyway Venom's shock satanism owes itself to early german metal band Lucifer's Friend and british prog rock band(thats the only way to describe them) Black Widow they played up the whole hell and satan shock thing in a very similar way to Venom.

Maybe VENOM would have been around without BLACK SABBATH but they would have sound different because they were a big influence on them. Same with METALLICA for exemple, without DIAMOND HEAD or VENOM influences, METALLICA would have had a totaly different sound. Do you understand mister rubbish????

I still don't believe Black Sabbath had a huge musical influence of Venom, sure Venom would of been fans of Black Sabbath I mean who wouldn't of been fans of Black Sabbath when your playing hard rock/metal music. I just don't buy into if one band wasn't around another wouldn't, bands have many influences that make up their sound so by removing one it would not make a huge difference.

rattpoison wrote:

I still don't believe Black Sabbath had a huge musical influence of Venom, sure Venom would of been fans of Black Sabbath I mean who wouldn't of been fans of Black Sabbath when your playing hard rock/metal music. I just don't buy into if one band wasn't around another wouldn't, bands have many influences that make up their sound so by removing one it would not make a huge difference.

I respect your opinion if you respect mine

In a way a kinda agreed with you