Black Sabbath - *The official thread*

I don't know how much I'd hang my hat on the argument that the originator sounded like the people who were copying what they did first...

Runicen wrote:

I don't know how much I'd hang my hat on the argument that the originator sounded like the people who were copying what they did first...  

That was just a production thing. Tony and company were no longer recording in a matter of days, like those early Sabbath recordings, but were taking their time utilizing then-modern tech. Iommi's essence still shines through.

I don't see how people can dismiss the Tony Martin albums save Forbidden, which still had a few good songs on it.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Runicen wrote:

I don't know how much I'd hang my hat on the argument that the originator sounded like the people who were copying what they did first...  

That was just a production thing. Tony and company were no longer recording in a matter of days, like those early Sabbath recordings, but were taking their time utilizing then-modern tech. Iommi's essence still shines through.

Definitely agreed on the essence thing. Much as I threw out Seventh Star in bringing this up, it's definitely an album I think gets unfair flak for not being exactly what people expected. It still sounds like Iommi throughout (and Glenn Hughes sounds incredible considering the shape he was in personally at the time).

Seventh Star was a Tony Iommi solo album, so of course it should sound different. Warner Bros. is the only reason that album has the name Black Sabbath on it.

Temple of Blood wrote:

I don't see how people can dismiss the Tony Martin albums save Forbidden, which still had a few good songs on it.

I didn't think I was. I never said they weren't good. They just aren't my first (or 2nd) choice when it comes to Sabbath. And, to be fair, I haven't lived with some of the non-Ozzy/Dio albums for nearly as long. Check back in 5 or 10 years and see if my appreciation has grown any.

I used to feel that Black Sabbath was wasting their time during the Tony Martin era. I thought they should have given up. Then I heard the albums and was blown away. I like every one of them, including Forbidden.

That said, I still feel that Born Again is their best release. I love that album.

I do wish to hell that they could remix Born Again though. The criticisms of its mix are VERY well founded, which is a shame since it sounds like those songs could be dusted down and really made to shine.

Runicen wrote:

I do wish to hell that they could remix Born Again though.  The criticisms of its mix are VERY well founded, which is a shame since it sounds like those songs could be dusted down and really made to shine.

The master tapes are lost, they cannot be located in the Warner Bros. archive, quite possibly they've been destroyed. Tony Iommi planned on doing a complete remix but none of the multi-track material can be found.

Far more obscure albums' multi-tracks have been recovered from oblivion in the vaults. It may be pure fantasy, but I hold out hope that Born Again may join their ranks one day.

And suddenly, I'm drooling at the thought of actually getting to peruse the Warners' Tape Archive...

Black Sabbath just posted this on their Youtube page:

Witchfinder wrote:

Black Sabbath just posted this on their Youtube page:

That was pure awesomeness! There are a lot of great Black Sabbath riffs, but the main riff in Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is my favorite of all time. It's cool to see those guys back in their glory days.

For what it's worth, Ozzy says a final album and tour is due from Sabbath next year...

Quote :

And Ozzy has since confirmed comments he made last year that Sabbath would record a final album to follow up 2013's 13 and head out on a farewell tour. And he says that whatever happens with Sabbath, his solo career will continue.

He tells a press conference at Monsters Of Rock in Brazil: "The plan is that next year we'll do the final Black Sabbath tour and album. I'm not stopping... my wife spends all my money so I can't."

Ozzy says that the plans "could change," and adds: "We all live in different countries and some of them want to work and some of them don't want to, I believe. But we are going to do another tour together."

I'd love to get another album out of them, but until I get it from a more reliable source, I'm not holding my breath.

Well, I hope that they can pull it off one more time. I really liked 13.

Bill recently got together with Tony & Geezer to accept some lifetime achievement award.


No sign of Ozzy, but it's a start.

A new album is always welcome. Happy to notice that tony looks in good shape.

I just don't think it's going to work out between Bill and Ozzy, but here's hoping I'm wrong. Has anyone seen the back and forth that's been going on between them? It's absolute fury.

i enjoyed 13 and am looking forward to another album, which is hopefully not their last.

exact33 wrote:

i enjoyed 13 and am looking forward to another album, which is hopefully not their last.

This

I think the chances of Bill joining them on the last album has improved. But greedy Sharon is still holding things up! They all know the fans will be forever disappointed if the original guys don't end the band together. The money for the last tour will be huge! So give Bill his "signable" contract already!

Ozzy had some valid points I think. I don't think it's all about greed.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Ozzy had some valid points I think.  I don't think it's all about greed.

I think it was kind of dick-ish for Ozzy to say that Bill can't play anymore. If Bill's health is keeping him from performing at a professional level, that's for Bill to admit and then decide whether he wants to make it public knowledge. Ozzy didn't need to embarrass his friend like that.

Bill could fire back that Ozzy can't sing worth a damn anymore if he wanted to but he's trying to keep it professional.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/black-sabbaths-geezer-butler-i-always-felt-that-god-and-jesus-
wanted-us-to-love-each-other/

I guess "God is dead?" was supposed to be American Jihad that's what Geezer wanted. But Ozzy wanted that title.

Ive been exploring deeper into Sabbath and find I like both eras and am sad it took me so long to like Dio's sound.

Love Heaven & Hell

The term "Dio's sound" kind of got me thinking. Anyone else here think Iommi doesn't get his due as a versatile composer?

Yeah, that word has pretentious connotation, but think about this: how many times has the "Sabbath sound" changed dramatically because a new vocalist entered the fold? There are certain stylistic tics that betray it as Iommi, but the Dio songs are NOTHING you would have heard from the Ozzy era band. Born Again is its own beast, ditto for Seventh Star, and so on.

Iommi has that Brian May ability to take his guitar playing and make it fit whatever is going on without ceasing to sound like himself.

I think this is at the core of why I get so annoyed with people leaning so heavily on the Ozzy years. Yeah, they're great, groundbreaking, etc. but pretty much everybody involved hit their creative strides AFTERWARD - especially Iommi.

Just my take, but I'm curious to hear where everyone else is on this idea.