QUEENSRYCHE

Boris2008 wrote:

Just a thought. How will you guys feel if the real QR record is disappointing and the Tatesryche one absolutely kills it?

Considering that Jason Slater (new album producer) was one of the main outside song writers (and producer or co-producer) that Tate used on the O:MC II, American Soldier and DTC I would be surprised if it is anything but the same ol' crap that Tate has been force-feeding the fans over the past 10 years. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

exact33 wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

I never would've guessed that Geoff would want to play with those guys. Very surprising.

It's still hard for me to imagine it being good.

The #1 most important aspect of music is songwriting. Maybe, just maybe Geoff can hold up his end ... but who is the songwriting genius behind the music in his solo band? Slater? That sounds really iffy.

It's not surprising. Tate is a dirtbag. He knows fans wanted Queensryche to go back to a heavier sound. He denied this before, but now he's attempting to lure the fans back to his side by producing a "stupidly heavy" album. Come on.

Shawn said La Torre's vocals sound contrived on that new clip, but what Geoff is doing here is the definition of contrived. Everything he is doing with this "band" goes against all of the BS he spewed after he was shit-canned. It is 100% fake.

"I've definitely grown out of that music, those same chunka chunka riffs. We were definitely not in the same creative headspace."

but now that i am not in the band anymore, all of sudden i want to play metal because no one wants to hear my adult contemporary stuff.

Desperation on Tate's part, he one last money grab before he can't the Queensryche name anymore, so he;s trying to suck that well dry.

thejokeriv wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

I never would've guessed that Geoff would want to play with those guys. Very surprising.

It's still hard for me to imagine it being good.

The #1 most important aspect of music is songwriting. Maybe, just maybe Geoff can hold up his end ... but who is the songwriting genius behind the music in his solo band? Slater? That sounds really iffy.

It's not surprising. Tate is a dirtbag. He knows fans wanted Queensryche to go back to a heavier sound. He denied this before, but now he's attempting to lure the fans back to his side by producing a "stupidly heavy" album. Come on.

Shawn said La Torre's vocals sound contrived on that new clip, but what Geoff is doing here is the definition of contrived. Everything he is doing with this "band" goes against all of the BS he spewed after he was shit-canned. It is 100% fake.

"I've definitely grown out of that music, those same chunka chunka riffs. We were definitely not in the same creative headspace."

but now that i am not in the band anymore, all of sudden i want to play metal because no one wants to hear my adult contemporary stuff.

Desperation on Tate's part, he one last money grab before he can't the Queensryche name anymore, so he;s trying to suck that well dry.

absolutely. Its a blatant grab for cash.

Goes to show that just because someone thinks they are smarter than everyone else, doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid either.

I can hope that both camps release something interesting. Like what has been mentioned...the best players on crappy writing is still crappy music.

I stopped caring when I heard the Empire album. What a joke that was.

James B. wrote:

Goes to show that just because someone thinks they are smarter than everyone else, doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid either.

I can hope that both camps release something interesting. Like what has been mentioned...the best players on crappy writing is still crappy music.

But is there any evidence that anyone in Queensryche can write a song? I'm no expert so please don't think that I'm trying to quote facts but my understanding is that Tate/De Garmo were the main songwrters through the 'classic' QR era and neither of them are in the band.

I don't think that anyone will know for sure until the records are released and the 'Ryche Off' has begun in earnest. I will just say this though. Who would have imagined that a drug addled alcoholic mess with no songwriting pedigree whatsoever could get together with a guitarist who's band could only get signed in Japan, and the rhythm section from Uriah Heep and produce a record like 'Blizzard of Ozz'? Not many I'll guess!

Boris2008 wrote:

But is there any evidence that anyone in Queensryche can write a song? I'm no expert so please don't think that I'm trying to quote facts but my understanding is that Tate/De Garmo were the main songwrters through the 'classic' QR era and neither of them are in the band.

I don't think that anyone will know for sure until the records are released and the 'Ryche Off' has begun in earnest. I will just say this though. Who would have imagined that a drug addled alcoholic mess with no songwriting pedigree whatsoever could get together with a guitarist who's band could only get signed in Japan, and the rhythm section from Uriah Heep and produce a record like 'Blizzard of Ozz'? Not many I'll guess!

Seems you missed the posts regarding Queensryche writing credits from the E.P thru Empire.

Regarding Ozzy....Daisley joined Uriah heep after his session work on "Blizzard" and "Diary". He was somewhat proven as a songwriter before as was Lee, who was quite active in the songwriting process right out the gate when joining Uriah Heep in 1972.

Tate's been bringing in so many ringers and guest players for his album and it makes me wonder ... when "Tatesryche" goes on tour after the album's release, will any of the people on stage w/him have played a single note on the record??

Lurideath wrote:

I stopped caring when I heard the Empire album. What a joke that was.

And what a fine joke it was!

DallasBlack wrote:

Lurideath wrote:

I stopped caring when I heard the Empire album. What a joke that was.

And what a fine joke it was!

He always cracks me up, the instant a band tries something different he's outta there!

Personally I think Empire is one of their best albums.

S.D. wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

Lurideath wrote:

I stopped caring when I heard the Empire album. What a joke that was.

And what a fine joke it was!

He always cracks me up, the instant a band tries something different he's outta there!

Personally I think Empire is one of their best albums.

I love when people "stopped caring" 20 years ago yet still continue give opinions the whole time.

What's so funny, to me, is that Tate thinks "heavy" is what everyone wants when in reality it was Queensryche's mood and vibe more than their heaviness that people are drawn to. They were never really all that heavy.

So he let's 2 guys from Forbidden play on the album, Brad Gillis shred some solos, then tours with known Metal hired-guns for the live shows all in an attempt to seem more Metal than he ever wanted to be in the first place (if you believe his past interviews).

James B. wrote:

Regarding Ozzy....Daisley joined Uriah heep after his session work on "Blizzard" and "Diary". He was somewhat proven as a songwriter before as was Lee, who was quite active in the songwriting process right out the gate when joining Uriah Heep in 1972.

I think that you are missing the point of what I'm saying, I didn't say that neither of those guys had written songs before (although, from what I can see it was limited to a few songs for Widowmaker in the case of Daisley, and a fair few co writing credits for Kerslake in a band where the undisputed creative force was Ken Hensley) nor am I saying that those guys were bad songwriters, they proved otherwise with Blizzard and Diary. All I am saying is it didn't look like the team that was going to propel Ozzy to new heights of Superstardom, there wasn't a single person in there with a proven record of writing classic songs. But somehow the magic happened and classic songs got wrote.

My point is that I don't think that you can dismiss either of these new records until they are out. As for the internal politics of what happened with the split, I think that unless you are in the band, you will never know the full story.

True but we can read what Geoff says recently and much of it seemsl ike over inflated ego talking.

Boris2008 wrote:

James B. wrote:

Regarding Ozzy....Daisley joined Uriah heep after his session work on "Blizzard" and "Diary". He was somewhat proven as a songwriter before as was Lee, who was quite active in the songwriting process right out the gate when joining Uriah Heep in 1972.

I think that you are missing the point of what I'm saying, I didn't say that neither of those guys had written songs before (although, from what I can see it was limited to a few songs for Widowmaker in the case of Daisley, and a fair few co writing credits for Kerslake in a band where the undisputed creative force was Ken Hensley) nor am I saying that those guys were bad songwriters, they proved otherwise with Blizzard and Diary. All I am saying is it didn't look like the team that was going to propel Ozzy to new heights of Superstardom, there wasn't a single person in there with a proven record of writing classic songs. But somehow the magic happened and classic songs got wrote.

My point is that I don't think that you can dismiss either of these new records until they are out. As for the internal politics of what happened with the split, I think that unless you are in the band, you will never know the full story.

What all great albums need is some sort of band chemistry, and this can not be done using calculation, imo. Queensryche used to have this chemistry, but somehow lost it along the way. In my opinion, this chemistry can never again be recaptured, and certainly not with a slew of hired guns, or a copy cat singer.

kmorg wrote:

What all great albums need is some sort of band chemistry, and this can not be done using calculation, imo. Queensryche used to have this chemistry, but somehow lost it along the way. In my opinion, this chemistry can never again be recaptured, and certainly not with a slew of hired guns, or a copy cat singer.

That's what I call "the magic". Journey, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and now Queensryche. They may put out decent to good records with replacement singers...but the magic/chemistry cannot be manufactured...it has to come naturally. Augeri, Pineda, Ripper, Bayley and now LaTorre...all could/can do the job...but without the magic they just sound more like bands influenced by who they still claim to be. (ie, Journey w/ Pineda sounds like a band influenced by Journey...they don't sound like Journey).

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

kmorg wrote:

What all great albums need is some sort of band chemistry, and this can not be done using calculation, imo. Queensryche used to have this chemistry, but somehow lost it along the way. In my opinion, this chemistry can never again be recaptured, and certainly not with a slew of hired guns, or a copy cat singer.

That's what I call "the magic". Journey, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and now Queensryche. They may put out decent to good records with replacement singers...but the magic/chemistry cannot be manufactured...it has to come naturally. Augeri, Pineda, Ripper, Bayley and now LaTorre...all could/can do the job...but without the magic they just sound more like bands influenced by who they still claim to be. (ie, Journey w/ Pineda sounds like a band influenced by Journey...they don't sound like Journey).

You missed out Bruce Dickinson, he was a 'replacement singer'

Boris2008 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

kmorg wrote:

What all great albums need is some sort of band chemistry, and this can not be done using calculation, imo. Queensryche used to have this chemistry, but somehow lost it along the way. In my opinion, this chemistry can never again be recaptured, and certainly not with a slew of hired guns, or a copy cat singer.

That's what I call "the magic". Journey, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and now Queensryche. They may put out decent to good records with replacement singers...but the magic/chemistry cannot be manufactured...it has to come naturally. Augeri, Pineda, Ripper, Bayley and now LaTorre...all could/can do the job...but without the magic they just sound more like bands influenced by who they still claim to be. (ie, Journey w/ Pineda sounds like a band influenced by Journey...they don't sound like Journey).

You missed out Bruce Dickinson, he was a 'replacement singer'

So was Sammy Hagar and Brian Johnson. I wasn't making a list...I was making a point.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

kmorg wrote:

What all great albums need is some sort of band chemistry, and this can not be done using calculation, imo. Queensryche used to have this chemistry, but somehow lost it along the way. In my opinion, this chemistry can never again be recaptured, and certainly not with a slew of hired guns, or a copy cat singer.

That's what I call "the magic". Journey, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and now Queensryche. They may put out decent to good records with replacement singers...but the magic/chemistry cannot be manufactured...it has to come naturally. Augeri, Pineda, Ripper, Bayley and now LaTorre...all could/can do the job...but without the magic they just sound more like bands influenced by who they still claim to be. (ie, Journey w/ Pineda sounds like a band influenced by Journey...they don't sound like Journey).

You missed out Bruce Dickinson, he was a 'replacement singer'

So was Sammy Hagar and Brian Johnson. I wasn't making a list...I was making a point.

I'm aware that you were making a point, I'm just not sure what that point is?

The reason I mentioned Bruce is because you had mentioned Maiden already, but yeah, Hagar, Dio, Johnson, Belladonna, they are all replacement singers who did pretty well for themselves. The first four Ozzy records, most of Whitesnake and Rainbow's back catalogue all fit nicely into the 'slew of hired guns' catagory and still managed to be pretty good. All I'm saying is that people are talking in terms of absolutes when there are none. I'll just listen to both records without prejudice before deciding that I still don't like Queensryche

I also think that this concept of 'magic' is very subjective, for me the 'magic' went from AC/DC and Metallica with the deaths of Bon and Cliff, but there are about 200 million people who disagree with me.

"Magic" may very well me subjective. People like what they like.

But, for me, Pineda/Cain/Schon will never have the same magic and vibe as Perry/Cain/Schon, despite the talent. Same with Queensryche...LaTorre/Wilton or Tate/Slater/Gray will never have the same magic and vibe as DeGarmo/Tate/Wilton.

It's like making a pizza with artificial cheese...you can eat it, it just won't be as good. :p

Boris2008 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

kmorg wrote:

What all great albums need is some sort of band chemistry, and this can not be done using calculation, imo. Queensryche used to have this chemistry, but somehow lost it along the way. In my opinion, this chemistry can never again be recaptured, and certainly not with a slew of hired guns, or a copy cat singer.

That's what I call "the magic". Journey, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and now Queensryche. They may put out decent to good records with replacement singers...but the magic/chemistry cannot be manufactured...it has to come naturally. Augeri, Pineda, Ripper, Bayley and now LaTorre...all could/can do the job...but without the magic they just sound more like bands influenced by who they still claim to be. (ie, Journey w/ Pineda sounds like a band influenced by Journey...they don't sound like Journey).

You missed out Bruce Dickinson, he was a 'replacement singer'

So was Sammy Hagar and Brian Johnson. I wasn't making a list...I was making a point.

I'm aware that you were making a point, I'm just not sure what that point is?

The reason I mentioned Bruce is because you had mentioned Maiden already, but yeah, Hagar, Dio, Johnson, Belladonna, they are all replacement singers who did pretty well for themselves. The first four Ozzy records, most of Whitesnake and Rainbow's back catalogue all fit nicely into the 'slew of hired guns' catagory and still managed to be pretty good. All I'm saying is that people are talking in terms of absolutes when there are none. I'll just listen to both records without prejudice before deciding that I still don't like Queensryche

I also think that this concept of 'magic' is very subjective, for me the 'magic' went from AC/DC and Metallica with the deaths of Bon and Cliff, but there are about 200 million people who disagree with me.

I think you're the one talking in terms of absolute. Rather, reading everything that way.

I don't think Shawn was suggesting that no band can produce quality work or even better work with hired guns; he's simply pointing out that with certain bands there is something that simply cannot be replicated (i.e. the "magic") without specific people being a part of the creative process.

Boris2008 wrote:

My point is that I don't think that you can dismiss either of these new records until they are out. As for the internal politics of what happened with the split, I think that unless you are in the band, you will never know the full story.

I have hopes for both releases to be decent (at best) and that is about it.

Myself, I'm like others here. You read what somebody puts out for the public to read and then have issue when their actions are opposite of what they said.

The rest of it, poking jabs and ribbing on Tate is just way too much fun. He gives us lots to work with in that department. In real life interaction, I place way more merit on someone's actions rather than what comes from the mouth. Tate is the type to already be in process of doing something besides what he says before he's done saying it.

James B. wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

My point is that I don't think that you can dismiss either of these new records until they are out. As for the internal politics of what happened with the split, I think that unless you are in the band, you will never know the full story.

I have hopes for both releases to be decent (at best) and that is about it.

Myself, I'm like others here. You read what somebody puts out for the public to read and then have issue when their actions are opposite of what they said.

Its kinda similar to those Hollywood actor gun protestors - guns are bad, but watch my next action flick where I annihilate everything in sight. The Geoff keeps toting all these hired gun out for show but does he really think we believe he wants to do a metal album after all the putting down of the genre he has done? Ill wait for both but I do not have a lot of hope for The Tate. I see what he says he has done but until I hear the music I am skeptical given the last 4 albums he has given himself all the credit on.

I am equally skeptical on the LaTorre version too - the sound sample did not do a lot to move me either direction.

exact33 wrote:

James B. wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

My point is that I don't think that you can dismiss either of these new records until they are out. As for the internal politics of what happened with the split, I think that unless you are in the band, you will never know the full story.

I have hopes for both releases to be decent (at best) and that is about it.

Myself, I'm like others here. You read what somebody puts out for the public to read and then have issue when their actions are opposite of what they said.

Its kinda similar to those Hollywood actor gun protestors - guns are bad, but watch my next action flick where I annihilate everything in sight.

The current James Bond comes to mind .

Boris, you have to understand also, i'll slag on theGeoff for his antics but if put out a good album i'd still buy it. If I based buying music on how personable all the musicians were i'd own like 10 albums.