So someone mentioned our band in a blog ....

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Coma wrote:

Quote :

Hitler - 42 million
Pol Pot - 2.5 million
Stalin - 10-20 million
Mao - 20-30 million

How many died during the Inquisition and the Crusades? Just wondering.

Isn't religion the source of most wars in history?

I wasn't going to bother...but thanks.

Yep - there were less people around during those times, but there have been many "holy wars" and wars about religion. Fortunately, Christianity appears to have matured to the point that it no longer kills in the name of God/Jesus..... unfortunately islam has not.

As far as "athesist" governments, some of the "founding fathers" were athesists, some beliveed in a Creator and some believed in the God of the Bible. Out country was founded on Democracy, not Theocracy. Just because someone is an Athesist, does not make them an evil doer ready to rape, kill and pillage everyone.

As far as greed and coruption, guess what? Christians do PLEANTY of that! Once someone is in a position of pwer, they will do ANYTHING to stay in that position! They do not want to go down a "notch", wether it be in the business world, government, politics, entertainment world OR Christianity.

thejokeriv wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Coma wrote:

Quote :

Hitler - 42 million
Pol Pot - 2.5 million
Stalin - 10-20 million
Mao - 20-30 million

How many died during the Inquisition and the Crusades? Just wondering.

Isn't religion the source of most wars in history?

I wasn't going to bother...but thanks.

Yep - there were less people around during those times, but there have been many "holy wars" and wars about religion. Fortunately, Christianity appears to have matured to the point that it no longer kills in the name of God/Jesus..... unfortunately islam has not.

As far as "athesist" governments, some of the "founding fathers" were athesists, some beliveed in a Creator and some believed in the God of the Bible. Out country was founded on Democracy, not Theocracy. Just because someone is an Athesist, does not make them an evil doer ready to rape, kill and pillage everyone.

As far as greed and coruption, guess what? Christians do PLEANTY of that! Once someone is in a position of pwer, they will do ANYTHING to stay in that position! They do not want to go down a "notch", wether it be in the business world, government, politics, entertainment world OR Christianity.

Thank you for your excellent post, and you articulated what my thoughts were on the subject.

Good post, joker...

DeathCult wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Coma wrote:

Quote :

Hitler - 42 million
Pol Pot - 2.5 million
Stalin - 10-20 million
Mao - 20-30 million

How many died during the Inquisition and the Crusades? Just wondering.

Isn't religion the source of most wars in history?

I wasn't going to bother...but thanks.

Not to mention the witch trials. Also, like Atheism has anything to do with the fact that the majority of that is COMMUNIST regimes.

Good point on the witch trials!!!! And those were done by a group of early calvinists know as the "puritans". So much of the "reformed" churches and doctrines in churchs today is re-packaged puritanical nonsense. Funny, they witch trials are forgotten, or the person Calvin had burned at the stake for "heresy"

Thanks Manny & Shawn.

Manny - we may not agree on everything politically, but we seem to agree on a good number of things spiritually!!!

Wow, did this thread move far, far away from the original topic.

I go to church all the time. I've been to many different churches and have been going to the same church for over a decade now. I know a lot of nice people there. Some of them would give the shirt off their back if they thought it would help someone else. Some of them won't even acknowledge me because I don't fit in. I don't look like your average Christian, so some people won't accept me. So be it. People inside and outside of the church stereotype other people all the time.

I go to concerts all the time. I meet a lot of cool people there. There are also some real jerks at at shows who's only purpose is to cause problems for others, rather than enjoy the show. Their idea of having a good time is getting completely wasted, starting fights and hurting people. The definition of a jerk IMO.

I go to work every day. I work with some great people. Some of them are Christians, some of them are not. Some of the people I work with really rub me the wrong way, but I have to work with them, so I try to be personable. Whether these people are Christians, athiests, buddhists, or whatever I do not know. It doesn't really matter. People are people. Some of them are cool, some of them are not.

I myself am a Christian. I try my best not to be an ass, but I know that I have my moments. I try to be personable to everyone, but I know there are days when I am probably not. I strive to be kind to others, to help others, to give to needs, etc., but there are times when I am greedy and self-centered. I can tell you that I have been one of the most judgemental people ever at certain times in my life. I know many Christians and non-Christians alike that are very judgemental.

I am a Christian because I believe in Jesus and trust that he is who he said he is, and believe he died and was resurrected from the dead. People can argue the existance of God, but I know that my life was changed because of my faith in God. My daily moods, attitudes, actions, etc. should reflect that faith and change in life. Hopefully it does most of the time, however, like any person, I blow it. I have to apologize to people. I have to pay the price for my screw ups, just like anyone else. My self "holiness" is as filthy, nasty, rags. I am holy because Jesus is holy and for no other reason.

I love my church. They tick me off sometimes. They offend me sometimes. I disagree with them at times. However, I know that they love me and will stick by me and my family in times of need. They are a family. When my family went through a tough situation a few months ago, I honestly expected my church to turn their back on us, judge us and be competely shocked and offended. However, instead, they offered a support and stood behind us 100%. They gave us an outlet to talk. They gave us counseling. They offered us whatever help we needed. When my wife had surgery a few years ago, they brought us meals and offered to help us out. They are family. They are not perfect, but they are not the picture of ugliness and hypocrisy that many paint the church out to be.

The point is, people are people.

Quote :

People are people. Some of them are cool, some of them are not.

QFT

manny wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Coma wrote:

Quote :

Hitler - 42 million
Pol Pot - 2.5 million
Stalin - 10-20 million
Mao - 20-30 million

How many died during the Inquisition and the Crusades? Just wondering.

Isn't religion the source of most wars in history?

I wasn't going to bother...but thanks.

Yep - there were less people around during those times, but there have been many "holy wars" and wars about religion. Fortunately, Christianity appears to have matured to the point that it no longer kills in the name of God/Jesus..... unfortunately islam has not.

As far as "athesist" governments, some of the "founding fathers" were athesists, some beliveed in a Creator and some believed in the God of the Bible. Out country was founded on Democracy, not Theocracy. Just because someone is an Athesist, does not make them an evil doer ready to rape, kill and pillage everyone.

As far as greed and coruption, guess what? Christians do PLEANTY of that! Once someone is in a position of pwer, they will do ANYTHING to stay in that position! They do not want to go down a "notch", wether it be in the business world, government, politics, entertainment world OR Christianity.

Thank you for your excellent post, and you articulated what my thoughts were on the subject.

Ok, seriously. I feel horrible that some of you have had such bad experiences with "Christians". I myself am a Christ follower.

I'm under the belief that what some of you have experienced is dealings with folks who put the "Christian" nametag on themselves, go to church and think everything's hunky dory.

Sorry kids, that's not what Jesus taught at all. He taught to:

Die to yourself daily
Pick up your cross daily
Be transformed daily
Renew your heart and mind daily
Offer your bodies as a sacrifice

In a nutshell be a servant to those around you, not just fellow believers.

To be honest, as a Christ follower the things you don't like about "Christians", Christ followers don't like either. Someone who truly has a relationship with Jesus, who truly follows his teachings, who truly loves God WILL NOT take part in any of the things any of you have listed here in this thread. If a Christ follower did do any of these things, that person would turn around and make it right pretty darned quick.

Now, forgive me for dropping bible verses, but I'm going somewhere with this.

Look at Hebrews 12:6

⁶because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

If you've ever been disciplined by God. . . let's just say it isn't pleasant, ok. If you are truly under the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ, The Creator. . . you have aligned your mind to HIS through The Holy Spirit. This verse refers to God's correction of His people who step outta line.

How then do we KNOW that a person is real about it and not a charlatan? Simple. Looky here:

Galatians 5:22-23

²²But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³gentleness and self-control.

The fruit a Christ follower exibits in there life has nine parts. ALL must be present. Notice it's THE FRUIT, not THE FRUIT(S). The descriptions of Christians that have been posted in this thread are not descriptions of people that bear these nine Fruit of the Spirit. So again, the folks that are refered to here as "Christians", I'm betting are not saved, born again Christ followers, but deceivers or decieved themselves.

Lastly, Jesus taught in John 14:15

¹⁵"If you love me, you will obey what I command.

No real Christ follower would do live in such a manner as to display what has been accused in this thread. Or, again, if they did they'd admit their wrong doing and turn away from the behavior (repent), learn from it and go on.

Bottom line here: Those of you who are against Christians. . . make sure who you are really taking about. Again, simply because someone puts the "Christian" moniker on themselves, does not mean they are one! There's a really good possibility that you are NOT refering to someone who truly represents Jesus Christ.

I have met turds in the church and I have met turds outside the church. Honestly, the turds in the church were at least a bit less hostile.

I'll close my entirely too long diatribe with this: GOING TO CHURCH DOES NOT MAKE YOU A CHRIST FOLLOWER ANYMROE THAN WALKING IN TO MCDONALDS MAKES YOU A BIG MAC!

Shalom,
Wretched

P.S. The crusades had nothing to do with Jesus. It was a political move, not a spiritual one.

P.S.S. I am not saying Christ followers don't make mistakes. I do constantly. However, because of Jesus I now do my very best to try and make the world around me better for everyone I come in contact with regarding how I interact with people regardless of their beliefs! By the way, most of my friends are NOT believers and I still love them dearly as I love ALL of you! Thanx for reading!

Coma wrote:

Quote :

Hitler - 42 million
Pol Pot - 2.5 million
Stalin - 10-20 million
Mao - 20-30 million

How many died during the Inquisition and the Crusades? Just wondering.

Isn't religion the source of most wars in history?

The Church does have a dark history, that can not be denied.
Religion might be at fault in most wars but I believe it can be broken down it even farther to self. I ( "We", a given group of people) am more important or deserving than you or (your people). Funny what I know about the fall is that self is at the center of Original Sin.

History shows that the United States has been in rapid decline since the late 50's and to mid 60's, oddly enough around the same time that legislation took God and Godly principles out of the public schools and replaced it with Secular Humanism and replaced it with the philosopy of Self or the I over the We. Humanity has never been perfect but I have to believe that the America our grand parents grew up in was way better than the one our grand children will grow up in. There was a time when children could walk down the street to go play, there was a time when people knew and looked out for their neighbors, people were active and caring. People lived closer to the golden rule or dare I say followed the 10 commendments more closely.
You do not have to be a Christian for the Ten Commendments to be good rules or guidelines to live by.

I was not raised Christian, but have reached that conclusion based upon my own journey of faith. Much like traversing a labyrinth the Christian walk is hard and I sometimes fall off the path, but with God / Christ at the center it gives me something to focus on.

Quote :

I'm under the belief that what some of you have experienced is dealings with folks who put the "Christian" nametag on themselves, go to church and think everything's hunky dory.

You think? What gave it away?

Quote :

Again, simply because someone puts the "Christian" moniker on themselves, does not mean they are one! There's a really good possibility that you are NOT refering to someone who truly represents Jesus Christ.

I am very aware of this...thanks for posting it. I agree with you...putting on the nametag does nothing other than make the wearer feel more important than they are.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

Again, simply because someone puts the "Christian" moniker on themselves, does not mean they are one! There's a really good possibility that you are NOT refering to someone who truly represents Jesus Christ.

I am very aware of this...thanks for posting it. I agree with you...putting on the nametag does nothing other than make the wearer feel more important than they are.

Very well said!!

Ult - great post!!!! Believeing in Jesus and what he did IS what makes you a christian. You are correct - people are people. I can not stand when people abuse, control others and are general a-holes in the name of God.

BTW - the crusades where done in the name of God and by governments that had an offical state religion.

The US has NOT been in rapid decline since the 50's/60's - we have become a wealthier country. Our statue as a world power GREW after WWII, during the 50's & 60's. That is an incorrect statement.

As far as "what is taught in schools", it has more to do with parents not parenting - my PERSONAL (notice, not what "we need to codify this instant) opinion. Parents are not doing their job and parenting. There is NO reason a kid can't go to PUBLIC school and get a good education. Parents should teach the differences between right and wrong, not the school.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

I'm under the belief that what some of you have experienced is dealings with folks who put the "Christian" nametag on themselves, go to church and think everything's hunky dory.

You think? What gave it away?

Quote :

Again, simply because someone puts the "Christian" moniker on themselves, does not mean they are one! There's a really good possibility that you are NOT refering to someone who truly represents Jesus Christ.

I am very aware of this...thanks for posting it. I agree with you...putting on the nametag does nothing other than make the wearer feel more important than they are.

I just want to let you know I respect the hell out of you brother and I really appreciate your transparency and honesty.

T-Roy wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

I'm under the belief that what some of you have experienced is dealings with folks who put the "Christian" nametag on themselves, go to church and think everything's hunky dory.

You think? What gave it away?

Quote :

Again, simply because someone puts the "Christian" moniker on themselves, does not mean they are one! There's a really good possibility that you are NOT refering to someone who truly represents Jesus Christ.

I am very aware of this...thanks for posting it. I agree with you...putting on the nametag does nothing other than make the wearer feel more important than they are.

I just want to let you know I respect the hell out of you brother and I really appreciate your transparency and honesty.

Nice post!!!

thejokeriv wrote:

Ult - great post!!!! Believeing in Jesus and what he did IS what makes you a christian. You are correct - people are people. I can not stand when people abuse, control others and are general a-holes in the name of God.

BTW - the crusades where done in the name of God and by governments that had an offical state religion.

The US has NOT been in rapid decline since the 50's/60's - we have become a wealthier country. Our statue as a world power GREW after WWII, during the 50's & 60's. That is an incorrect statement.

As far as "what is taught in schools", it has more to do with parents not parenting - my PERSONAL (notice, not what "we need to codify this instant) opinion. Parents are not doing their job and parenting. There is NO reason a kid can't go to PUBLIC school and get a good education. Parents should teach the differences between right and wrong, not the school.

If this is true about still being able to get a good education in the Public School System, why then has the enrollment at Private Schools increased over 400 % Nationally in the last two decades? I do agree with you on the poor parenting of today. Many of the current generations had little to no or very poor examples of what parents are suppose to do or be like, so how in the hell or they suppose to pass on what they never had?

By the way friend, China has surpassed the USA as a world Financial leader and US greed is at the root of why. Try finding toy for your children that were not made in China. I did for three weeks last Christmas with very little success!

Thanks T-Roy...back at ya.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Thanks T-Roy...back at ya.

Feel the Love!

Quote :

If this is true about still being able to get a good education in Public School System, why then has the enrollment at Private Schools increased over 400 % Nationally in the last two decades?

As much an unspoken need for status as education (although I will not deny the educational benefits).

Quote :

By the way friend, China has surpassed the USA as a world Financial leader and US greed is at the root of why.

I don't think he was saying we still "are", I think he was just showing that we did indeed grow as a nation for a long stretch...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

If this is true about still being able to get a good education in Public School System, why then has the enrollment at Private Schools increased over 400 % Nationally in the last two decades?

As much an unspoken need for status as education (although I will not deny the educational benefits).

Quote :

By the way friend, China has surpassed the USA as a world Financial leader and US greed is at the root of why.

I don't think he was saying we still "are", I think he was just showing that we did indeed grow as a nation for a long stretch...

Maybe so, but people of means are not the only ones that know that the Public School System is in mass disaray they are just the only ones who can afford to do something about it to protect the welfare of their children.

325ad wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

If this is true about still being able to get a good education in Public School System, why then has the enrollment at Private Schools increased over 400 % Nationally in the last two decades?

As much an unspoken need for status as education (although I will not deny the educational benefits).

Quote :

By the way friend, China has surpassed the USA as a world Financial leader and US greed is at the root of why.

I don't think he was saying we still "are", I think he was just showing that we did indeed grow as a nation for a long stretch...

Maybe so, but people of means are not the only ones that know that the Public School System is in mass disaray they are just the only ones who can afford to do something about it to protect the welfare of their children.

I know...

So....what else should we cover in here? OH....did somebody just mention "education"?!

I gradjeeated frum tha publik edeecashun sistem. Eye terned owt ohkaye.

Fat Freddy wrote:

I gradjeeated frum tha publik edeecashun sistem. Eye terned owt ohkaye.

I seriously just choked on my Pepsi.

Case in point everybody....the system is BROKEN!! LMAO!

T-Roy wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

I gradjeeated frum tha publik edeecashun sistem. Eye terned owt ohkaye.

I seriously just choked on my Pepsi.

Case in point everybody....the system is BROKEN!! LMAO!

Yes, it is but as tax payers we continue to have to support a broken system. This is not right. I personally send my two children to a Private Christian School yet my property taxes (which continue to go up despite these horrible economic conditions) are used to support a school system I do not have faith in nor do I use.

How did this topic get so off course by the way?

Quote :

How did this topic get so off course by the way?

Temple of Blood wrote:

For even better points (no offense to Shawn intended) read what Christ himself had to say. Now THAT'S something worth looking into.

ToB brought up what "Christ himself had to say"...then it all went they way it went.