So someone mentioned our band in a blog ....

http://open.salon.com/blog/jeanette_d/2009/06/14/why_i_think_christian_rock_and_heavy_metal_are_cynical

Of course she TOTALLY misses the point in several ways:

1. Christian rock/metal making tons of money?!?! HAHAHA!!!

2. We're a clone of METALLICA? That's news to me. I haven't listened to them in years. Sounds like someone doesn't have a very well-developed ear.

3. Who says all Christian bands are trying to tell you not to listen to secular music? Maybe, just maybe, we are singing about what we most care about and not trying to tell you to burn your ANTHRAX CDs.

4. She's right about being "cynical" though, based on her definition. I only have faith in God, not people.

5. She seems to accuse only Christian music of jumping on the metal bandwagon or co-opting popular styles, but anyone who knows anything about the metal scene knows there are tons of bands who play similar styles and have the same old influences. This isn't a trend exclusive to Christian music, as she seems to imply it is.

6. "There is every bit as much of an obsession with blood, demons, skulls, gore and death, but it gets a pass because it's all about Jesus' torture and execution, and the slaying of demons. I guess that makes it all OK!" Yes, it does actually, but it's not necessarily "not OK" in the first place.

7. "If rock 'n roll and heavy metal didn't already exist, would there be Christian rock and heavy metal acts? Somehow, I don't think so. " A better question would be, "without church music, would there be rock-n-roll?" That's where Little Richard learned his stuff.

8. "You people are not making Christianity any better. You're just making rock 'n roll worse." We're not trying to make "Christianity better". It doesn't need improving. We're just trying to express what we believe, just like every other artist does.

Just read that blog entry and geez...pretentious much? I wonder what kinda music this chick actually listens to. Scanning some of her other topics, I would imagine she's not into metal at all.

Quote :

"You people are not making Christianity any better. You're just making rock 'n roll worse."

Anyone who uses a quote from Hank Hill of "King of the Hill" to back up his/her point needs to get out of the house more often.

I understand her some of her point, albeit presented in a snotty fashion. I think what she is describing applies to a lot of the "mainstream" "Christian" bands out there. Jesus is hot right now and if an otherwise mediocre group says they are Christian or throws a christian-esque lyric in here or there, then they are almost guaranteed an audience away from the other 15 bands that sound exactly like them.

However, I have no idea why ToB was brought up. They are playing christian metal the old school way and are obviously doing it to glorify God. I honestly can't think of a band that ToB sounds like. They are miles ahead of Metallica.

Of course I think this lady is way off on most accounts.How or why she compares TOB to Metallica just shows how ignorant she is.I didnt realize that Jesus was the "in" thing right now either.Usually mentioning his name turns most people off.Just more proof that it takes all kinds to make the world go round.Ha

After reading the blog, I do think she is a smart young lady, but I do feel some of her points were off based.

'Lack of originality is not something that plagues Christine rock, but most all of contempary music. I do not agree that Chrisitian Rock is just repacked secular music and I would feel hard press to make an argument that someone who labels their music as Christine metal is doing it for the money, if anything that label probably hurts this bands in terms of getting gigs and airplay.

As far as some of the response, the person who calls himself 'icemilk coffee' is just an a$$hole, 'I question if heavy metal has any standing as music'. What a prick.

People like that are just as ridiculous as the people of faith who critisize Christian music. Music is just a collection of sounds and no one group of people have the right to any way of combining said sounds. Might as well say that Christians can't beathe in a certain way. "Your a Christian you can't breathe in through your nostrils and then out through your mouth. That's just copying a secular breathing pattern."

As far as it not being origional, is there any band that is 100% origional? All bands (Christian or not) are influenced by other bands.

Typical rant by a Non Christian. Scripture says the Cross is Foolishness to those perishing by it. 1 Cor 1:18

Do not worry about it. Blogs are like bottoms everyone has one. Most go unnoticed!

She's wrong - what a nut case......... Too bad she closed the comments I was ready to post a thought provoking comment

...And this is among the reasons why I don't bother reading Salon (I know technically it's a blog and not the main news site...)

What a silly woman.

Some observations......


"Sacred music has a long and important history in virtually all cultures,
because the belief in a higher power and the need to worship through music are also deeply human impulses. Medieval Gregorian chant, the very formal musical structure of the Roman Catholic Latin mass, Mozart's Requiem, the wonderful hymnal traditions of the various Protestant religions, slave spirituals, and southern gospel, are but some examples of western sacred music, and all are necessary, important, and organic in their genesis."

http://www.apologetix.com/faq/faq-detail.php?faq_q_id=89

If I remember my musical history (and in this case I do!) lots of the early hymns i.e. 'sacred music'... were common songs that the church co-opted as it were..... music itself is neutral, but the lyrical content can define it... music itself is emotional/spiritual... not all music touches everyone....

"And besides, the existence of The Beatles is more than enough proof for me that God/god loves us all.."

Sorry that TOB got singled out, by someone who knows there's a God because of the Beatles, wha????....

Yeah, sounds like you guys echo a lot of my thoughts on this one.

Quote :

1. Christian rock/metal making tons of money?!?! HAHAHA!!!

- Common misconception about musicians/bands in general.

Quote :

2. We're a clone of METALLICA? That's news to me. I haven't listened to them in years. Sounds like someone doesn't have a very well-developed ear.

- Most likely her only frame of reference for that tpye of Metal...can't really fault her. It's like hearing a Doom band and automatically saying they sound like Black Sabbath.

Quote :

3. Who says all Christian bands are trying to tell you not to listen to secular music? Maybe, just maybe, we are singing about what we most care about and not trying to tell you to burn your ANTHRAX CDs.

- Another common misconception based upon early Christian Metal history where (nearly) every band was very vocal about ministry and getting people to leave "the world" (music included) behind...how many of us in the early days of our faith stopped secular music altogether?

Quote :

4. She's right about being "cynical" though, based on her definition. I only have faith in God, not people.

- Agreed.

Quote :

5. She seems to accuse only Christian music of jumping on the metal bandwagon or co-opting popular styles, but anyone who knows anything about the metal scene knows there are tons of bands who play similar styles and have the same old influences. This isn't a trend exclusive to Christian music, as she seems to imply it is.

- I can see why she would think this...usually, something has to be around a while before Christians jump on it and try to create a "Christian version" of it. Secular bands do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday...the only difference is that secular bands copy bands to try and get noticed...Christianity will absorb entire culture movements and try to "Christianize" them for the sake of (supposedly) telling people into those things about God...many times it comes across like a type of "see? we can be cool too!" desperation.

Quote :

6. "There is every bit as much of an obsession with blood, demons, skulls, gore and death, but it gets a pass because it's all about Jesus' torture and execution, and the slaying of demons. I guess that makes it all OK!" Yes, it does actually, but it's not necessarily "not OK" in the first place.

- I can see her point...a little. Christians will go on and on about how bad violence is in TV and film, then lose their $h!t over "The Passion Of The Christ"...seems (on the surface) like a double standard. But yeah, the story of Christ has these elements in it, so of course it'll make its way into the music.

Quote :

7. "If rock 'n roll and heavy metal didn't already exist, would there be Christian rock and heavy metal acts? Somehow, I don't think so. " A better question would be, "without church music, would there be rock-n-roll?" That's where Little Richard learned his stuff.

- You're both right.

Quote :

8. "You people are not making Christianity any better. You're just making rock 'n roll worse." We're not trying to make "Christianity better". It doesn't need improving. We're just trying to express what we believe, just like every other artist does.

- Quoting King Of The Hill trying to look cool and witty is just lame. Not that it's not funny (I love it)...just putting in there after a long rant like that smacks of "PLEASE think I'm cool!!", low-self esteem grabs for attention...

Some very nice strawmen were hurt by her article. How mean.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

1. Christian rock/metal making tons of money?!?! HAHAHA!!!

- Common misconception about musicians/bands in general.

Quote :

2. We're a clone of METALLICA? That's news to me. I haven't listened to them in years. Sounds like someone doesn't have a very well-developed ear.

- Most likely her only frame of reference for that tpye of Metal...can't really fault her. It's like hearing a Doom band and automatically saying they sound like Black Sabbath.

Quote :

3. Who says all Christian bands are trying to tell you not to listen to secular music? Maybe, just maybe, we are singing about what we most care about and not trying to tell you to burn your ANTHRAX CDs.

- Another common misconception based upon early Christian Metal history where (nearly) every band was very vocal about ministry and getting people to leave "the world" (music included) behind...how many of us in the early days of our faith stopped secular music altogether?

Quote :

4. She's right about being "cynical" though, based on her definition. I only have faith in God, not people.

- Agreed.

Quote :

5. She seems to accuse only Christian music of jumping on the metal bandwagon or co-opting popular styles, but anyone who knows anything about the metal scene knows there are tons of bands who play similar styles and have the same old influences. This isn't a trend exclusive to Christian music, as she seems to imply it is.

- I can see why she would think this...usually, something has to be around a while before Christians jump on it and try to create a "Christian version" of it. Secular bands do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday...the only difference is that secular bands copy bands to try and get noticed...Christianity will absorb entire culture movements and try to "Christianize" them for the sake of (supposedly) telling people into those things about God...many times it comes across like a type of "see? we can be cool too!" desperation.

Quote :

6. "There is every bit as much of an obsession with blood, demons, skulls, gore and death, but it gets a pass because it's all about Jesus' torture and execution, and the slaying of demons. I guess that makes it all OK!" Yes, it does actually, but it's not necessarily "not OK" in the first place.

- I can see her point...a little. Christians will go on and on about how bad violence is in TV and film, then lose their $h!t over "The Passion Of The Christ"...seems (on the surface) like a double standard. But yeah, the story of Christ has these elements in it, so of course it'll make its way into the music.

Quote :

7. "If rock 'n roll and heavy metal didn't already exist, would there be Christian rock and heavy metal acts? Somehow, I don't think so. " A better question would be, "without church music, would there be rock-n-roll?" That's where Little Richard learned his stuff.

- You're both right.

Quote :

8. "You people are not making Christianity any better. You're just making rock 'n roll worse." We're not trying to make "Christianity better". It doesn't need improving. We're just trying to express what we believe, just like every other artist does.

- Quoting King Of The Hill trying to look cool and witty is just lame. Not that it's not funny (I love it)...just putting in there after a long rant like that smacks of "PLEASE think I'm cool!!", low-self esteem grabs for attention...

You have some very good points Pelata !!!
If more Christians had your common sense, the movement would have been worth looking in to

For even better points (no offense to Shawn intended) read what Christ himself had to say. Now THAT'S something worth looking into.

325ad wrote:

Typical rant by a Non Christian. Scripture says the Cross is Foolishness to those perishing by it. 1 Cor 1:18

Very much in context regarding some opinions in here as well.


Jhn 15:17 This is my command: Love each other.


Jhn 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.


Jhn 15:19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

2,000 years later it is still dead on accurate.

That right there explains where all the hate comes from. We as Christians witness it everyday. The bottom line is- it is not the bands they despise, it's not the members or even the music. It's Jesus. It's the message.

This is also why I believe Christian music will always be separated from secular. It is not just all the same music. It is different and it always will be different.

Temple of Blood wrote:

For even better points (no offense to Shawn intended) read what Christ himself had to say. Now THAT'S something worth looking into.

What did Jesus say about the things you pointed out?

Quote :

Jhn 15:19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

There are plenty of things that do belong to the world that it hates too...

She may sound like a pretentious, elitist b!tch who's never even heardTemple of Blood, but I agree with some of her points. I would side with her that often times Christian music is just a repackaging of popular secular music with biblical references, maybe "Jesus" thrown in a few times, and like she said, it's not very original (I'm looking at you, Stryper).

T-Roy wrote:

325ad wrote:

Typical rant by a Non Christian. Scripture says the Cross is Foolishness to those perishing by it. 1 Cor 1:18

Jhn 15:19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

That right there explains were all the hate comes from. We as Christians witness it everyday. The bottom line is- it is not the bands they despise, it's not the members or even the music. It's Jesus. It's the message.

Well, that's kinda harsh. Now I'm feeling like some weird, exotic creature--"Hey kids, let's go to the zoo and see the atheists!"

She could have elaborated more. Seems like she is picking on it, yet refrains from going one way or the other.

Nothing wrong with skulls, blood, death, etc as it is a human's instincts to be obsessed with that aspect. Thus why it's so strong even in religious based stuff. Slaying demon's is hilarious though!

TheNazgul wrote:

Some very nice strawmen were hurt by her article. How mean.

LOL

Yeah, people who write a blog post like that w/o proper background into the movement should really think hard before they write such a thing - they will end up only sounding foolish & uneducated.

Schbopo wrote:

She may sound like a pretentious, elitist b!tch who's never even heardTemple of Blood, but I agree with some of her points. I would side with her that often times Christian music is just a repackaging of popular secular music with biblical references, maybe "Jesus" thrown in a few times, and like she said, it's not very original (I'm looking at you, Stryper).

T-Roy wrote:

325ad wrote:

Typical rant by a Non Christian. Scripture says the Cross is Foolishness to those perishing by it. 1 Cor 1:18

Jhn 15:19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

That right there explains were all the hate comes from. We as Christians witness it everyday. The bottom line is- it is not the bands they despise, it's not the members or even the music. It's Jesus. It's the message.

Well, that's kinda harsh. Now I'm feeling like some weird, exotic creature--"Hey kids, let's go to the zoo and see the atheists!"

"SON, check it out, THAT is a Schbopo!!! Pretty cool, huh"?

Schbopo wrote:

She may sound like a pretentious, elitist b!tch who's never even heardTemple of Blood, but I agree with some of her points. I would side with her that often times Christian music is just a repackaging of popular secular music with biblical references, maybe "Jesus" thrown in a few times, and like she said, it's not very original (I'm looking at you, Stryper).

Personally, I could care less if a band is origional or not, as long as I like the music. You don't have to be origional to be good and it irkes me when people's only complaint against a band or artists it that they are unorigional.

Quote :

You don't have to be origional to be a good

QFT