McCain or Obama

troublezone wrote:

Obama is scary. Every time i learn something new about him i get more worried. He is a islamic sympathizer and a socialist.

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

spectrefate wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Obama is scary. Every time i learn something new about him i get more worried. He is a islamic sympathizer and a socialist.

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

I know but hopefully he'll be impeached.

Quote :

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

If i don't vote for 'em they're nothing to me but a prick that others voted for.

If you don't vote for them it still does not change the reality that they are the President of the United States, making them your President unless you live outside of the United States. Like it or not it will be President Obama or President McCain.

spectrefate wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Obama is scary. Every time i learn something new about him i get more worried. He is a islamic sympathizer and a socialist.

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

Isn't he changing the "president" title to "chairman"?

spectrefate wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Obama is scary. Every time i learn something new about him i get more worried. He is a islamic sympathizer and a socialist.

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

Lalalala lala we're f*ucked

thejokeriv wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Obama is scary. Every time i learn something new about him i get more worried. He is a islamic sympathizer and a socialist.

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

Isn't he changing the "president" title to "chairman"?

This why I quit posting on this thread, just because someone does not agree with one's point of view does not make one a socialist, pinko, liberal, or racist. It makes them an American who happens to disagree with your point of view or politics. Joker you sound like your going to vote for McCain it does not make you a racist, it just makes you someone who disagrees with Obama's politics. I am voting for Obama it does not make me a socialist. Like you have a degree in Politic science and we both come are coming out of this coming from two different sides on the same issues. In the end you know what that makes us, Americans involved in the politic process and discussion. I love being an American where else can you do this so freely? There I am done with my rant.

I can't remember where this happened, but somewhere there was a black man was running for governor. He would have been the state's first, so it was a big deal of sorts. Not on the same level, but significant enough. Anyway, exit polls had him getting 80% of the votes. But in the end, he only got 40%. People lied. It was trendy to be pro-whatever his name was, but at the end of the day, it was just a trend. Not sure if that same mentality will play out with the Presidential election, though.

I know very little about politics, but from what I can see, Obama is a worse choice. I tend to worry that so many are just so fed up with the Bush administration that they simply want a different party running the show, and they're not thinking about the consequences.

Let's be honest, though, no matter what, Obama is never going to live up to the hype. He's going to be a disappointing President. Moreover, he isn't going to change a damn thing. His records show that he doesn't go against the grain, he isn't for reform or any of things he insists he's about. He's America's Chinese Democracy. He'll never rise that high.

Eyesore wrote:

I can't remember where this happened, but somewhere there was a black man was running for governor. He would have been the state's first, so it was a big deal of sorts. Not on the same level, but significant enough. Anyway, exit polls had him getting 80% of the votes. But in the end, he only got 40%. Not sure if that same mentality will play out with the Presidential election, though.

I know very little about politics, but from what I can see, Obama is a worse choice. I tend to worry that so many are just so fed up with the Bush administration that they simply want a different party running the show, and they're not thinking about the consequences.

Let's be honest, though, no matter what, Obama is never going to live up the hype. He's going to be a disappointing President. Moreover, he isn't going to change a damn thing. His records show that he doesn't go against the grain, he isn't for reform or any of things he insists he's about. He's America's Chinese Democracy. He'll never rise that high.

That was in California in back in 1982, California Democratic candiate for Governor Tom Bradley had a comfortable ten point lead in the polls but still lost to his Republican rival Deukmejian, I am not sure by how much. This gave a new word in the political lexicon known as the Bradley Effect.

1982? I don't think what I'm thinking of was that long ago. I was 7 then. Haha.

manny wrote:

This why I quit posting on this thread, just because
someone does not agree with one's point of view does not make one a
socialist, pinko, liberal, or racist. It makes them an American who
happens to disagree with your point of view or politics. Joker you
sound like your going to vote for McCain it does not make you a racist,
it just makes you someone who disagrees with Obama's politics. I am
voting for Obama it does not make me a socialist.

Obama definitely has socialist leanings. That doesn't necessarily make
you one if you vote for him, but he advocates increased government
control of the means of production and distribution of goods and
services. I would call him a Democratic Socialist.

manny wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

spectrefate wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Obama is scary. Every time i learn something new about him i get more worried. He is a islamic sympathizer and a socialist.

...and you will probably be calling him President in a few months.

Isn't he changing the "president" title to "chairman"?

This why I quit posting on this thread, just because someone does not agree with one's point of view does not make one a socialist, pinko, liberal, or racist. It makes them an American who happens to disagree with your point of view or politics. Joker you sound like your going to vote for McCain it does not make you a racist, it just makes you someone who disagrees with Obama's politics. I am voting for Obama it does not make me a socialist. Like you have a degree in Politic science and we both come are coming out of this coming from two different sides on the same issues. In the end you know what that makes us, Americans involved in the politic process and discussion. I love being an American where else can you do this so freely? There I am done with my rant.

I'm all for political discussion - had some good ones in college. I do not belive that because someone is voting for obama they are a socialist, I do think obama is a socialist.

I support free speech - that's what makes America great. I do not believe in censoring someone because of their political views. I am probably more libertarian than conservative. I remember years ago talking to my Dad about jane fonda and her trip to hanoi - after he used a few choice words (he was a naval officer, so the curse like a salior is true, and did 2 tours of Vietnam) - he said he can't stand what she said, but she had the right to free speech and that's part of what he was defending.

As far as voting, I do view McCain and the lesser of two evils. I've felt that way about every election I've voted in (first one was 1988, 1992 was the lesser of 3 evils when Perot ran).

I have no problem with anyone discussing what they feel about the candidates and politics. For the most part, this has been a good thread

I'm all for political discussion - had some good ones in college. I do not belive that because someone is voting for obama they are a socialist, I do think obama is a socialist.

I support free speech - that's what makes America great. I do not believe in censoring someone because of their political views. I am probably more libertarian than conservative. I remember years ago talking to my Dad about jane fonda and her trip to hanoi - after he used a few choice words (he was a naval officer, so the curse like a salior is true, and did 2 tours of Vietnam) - he said he can't stand what she said, but she had the right to free speech and that's part of what he was defending.

As far as voting, I do view McCain and the lesser of two evils. I've felt that way about every election I've voted in (first one was 1988, 1992 was the lesser of 3 evils when Perot ran).

I have no problem with anyone discussing what they feel about the candidates and politics. For the most part, this has been a good thread [/quote]

Fair enough, tell your dad he is correct about Jane Fonda.

Tall Tyrion wrote:

manny wrote:

This why I quit posting on this thread, just because
someone does not agree with one's point of view does not make one a
socialist, pinko, liberal, or racist. It makes them an American who
happens to disagree with your point of view or politics. Joker you
sound like your going to vote for McCain it does not make you a racist,
it just makes you someone who disagrees with Obama's politics. I am
voting for Obama it does not make me a socialist.

Obama definitely has socialist leanings. That doesn't necessarily make
you one if you vote for him, but he advocates increased government
control of the means of production and distribution of goods and
services. I would call him a Democratic Socialist.

My Country, Norway, is run by what you call Democratic Sosialists.
And not to sound cocky, but we are way better off than the US (economy, average standard of living, crime ++++)
And yes, we pay a lot of tax, but paying tax is not giving away my money without getting anything in return.
We have free education, healthcare, if I am sick and home from work i still get full payment, if i lose my job i still get paid 60 % of my normal payment by the state. I could go on..
No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own.
And why is it all about McCain/Obama? They are only persons, it`s the system behind them and money that makes decisions, isn`t it?
Why fear change if it is a change for the better for the average citizen?

Olafsto wrote:

My Country, Norway, is run by what you call Democratic Sosialists.
And not to sound cocky, but we are way better off than the US (economy, average standard of living, crime ++++)
And yes, we pay a lot of tax, but paying tax is not giving away my money without getting anything in return.
We have free education, healthcare, if I am sick and home from work i still get full payment, if i lose my job i still get paid 60 % of my normal payment by the state. I could go on..
No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own.
And why is it all about McCain/Obama? They are only persons, it`s the system behind them and money that makes decisions, isn`t it?
Why fear change if it is a change for the better for the average citizen?

Do you have a spare bedroom?

detuned wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

My Country, Norway, is run by what you call Democratic Sosialists.
And not to sound cocky, but we are way better off than the US (economy, average standard of living, crime ++++)
And yes, we pay a lot of tax, but paying tax is not giving away my money without getting anything in return.
We have free education, healthcare, if I am sick and home from work i still get full payment, if i lose my job i still get paid 60 % of my normal payment by the state. I could go on..
No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own.
And why is it all about McCain/Obama? They are only persons, it`s the system behind them and money that makes decisions, isn`t it?
Why fear change if it is a change for the better for the average citizen?

Do you have a spare bedroom?

Come on over!!

Eyesore wrote:

I can't remember where this happened, but somewhere there was a black man was running for governor. He would have been the state's first, so it was a big deal of sorts. Not on the same level, but significant enough. Anyway, exit polls had him getting 80% of the votes. But in the end, he only got 40%. People lied. It was trendy to be pro-whatever his name was, but at the end of the day, it was just a trend. Not sure if that same mentality will play out with the Presidential election, though.

I know very little about politics, but from what I can see, Obama is a worse choice. I tend to worry that so many are just so fed up with the Bush administration that they simply want a different party running the show, and they're not thinking about the consequences.

Let's be honest, though, no matter what, Obama is never going to live up to the hype. He's going to be a disappointing President. Moreover, he isn't going to change a damn thing. His records show that he doesn't go against the grain, he isn't for reform or any of things he insists he's about. He's America's Chinese Democracy. He'll never rise that high.

Eyesore, once again you hit the nail on the head! People hate Bush and are voting the polar opposite for that reason. It's kinda funny though... as much as people hate Bush you would think Obama-nation would have a much larger voting margine than he has but the race has been remarkably close at times.

Olafsto, it sounds good on paper but I think our country is too entrenched to make that work.

I might be wrong, and I might be looking at it with pessimism, but I don't think "we" can handle it.

I've been threatening to move to Norway for years. I'm getting closer. I'll lose my wife, but it's tempting!

I dont paticularly care for either one

Quote :

No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own

I'm afraid that wouldn't work here because we're a much larger country than yours with a huge national debt plus it would move us closer to a less independent society and part of a One World Government state of mind. People that work hard to be well off shouldn't have to give their money away to certain people that choose to be lazy or work the system.

Eyesore wrote:

I can't remember where this happened, but somewhere there was a black man was running for governor. He would have been the state's first, so it was a big deal of sorts. Not on the same level, but significant enough. Anyway, exit polls had him getting 80% of the votes. But in the end, he only got 40%. People lied. It was trendy to be pro-whatever his name was, but at the end of the day, it was just a trend. Not sure if that same mentality will play out with the Presidential election, though.

I know very little about politics, but from what I can see, Obama is a worse choice. I tend to worry that so many are just so fed up with the Bush administration that they simply want a different party running the show, and they're not thinking about the consequences.

Let's be honest, though, no matter what, Obama is never going to live up to the hype. He's going to be a disappointing President. Moreover, he isn't going to change a damn thing. His records show that he doesn't go against the grain, he isn't for reform or any of things he insists he's about. He's America's Chinese Democracy. He'll never rise that high.

AOL was showing that on the news bits a couple weeks ago. It was called "The Bradley Effect" like Manny said. Apparently people just want to avoid being called racist and want to vote in peace without being hounded by liberals.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Olafsto, it sounds good on paper but I think our country is too entrenched to make that work.

I might be wrong, and I might be looking at it with pessimism, but I don't think "we" can handle it.

I've been threatening to move to Norway for years. I'm getting closer. I'll lose my wife, but it's tempting!

Stop right there scottm!!
I`ve seen pictures of your wife, she`s hot, Norway is cold.
Easy choise

troublezone wrote:

Quote :

No system or goverment or society is perfect, but why do so many americans fear a little change? And why do you fear Sosial Democracy like it was a plague? It is a system that actually works fine in a lot of countries that have the same personal freedom as in your own

I'm afraid that wouldn't work here because we're a much larger country than yours with a huge national debt plus it would move us closer to a less independent society and part of a One World Government state of mind. People that work hard to be well off shouldn't have to give their money away to certain people that choose to be lazy or work the system.

I can understand that.
You are a whole Continent, while all the people of Norway could easily fit into one of your cities.
I have no idea how it would work in your Country, but Social Democracy as a system or an ideology is nothing to fear.
It`s always irritating for hard working people when certain people are lazy or work the system, that is a problem here and in many other places. I personally have no sympathy for such individuals. But at the same time it is good to know that if i, for some reason, will be unable to work. My family and i wont end up on the street.
Anyway, no matter who`s your next president, you will have a better one than what you have now.

I can understand that.
You are a whole Continent, while all the people of Norway could easily fit into one of your cities.
I have no idea how it would work in your Country, but Social Democracy as a system or an ideology is nothing to fear.
It`s always irritating for hard working people when certain people are lazy or work the system, that is a problem here and in many other places. I personally have no sympathy for such individuals. But at the same time it is good to know that if i, for some reason, will be unable to work. My family and i wont end up on the street.
Anyway, no matter who`s your next president, you will have a better one than what you have now. [/quote]

Plus, individualism is very important to Americans and we have many, many different views, ideas, religious preferences, races - the big "melting pot" - the cost to run our country that way would be insane. I noticed when I was in NL that individualism just wasn't that important as it is in US. For your Europeans - correct me if I am worng on that, but it's what I noticed.

thejokeriv wrote:

I can understand that.
You are a whole Continent, while all the people of Norway could easily fit into one of your cities.
I have no idea how it would work in your Country, but Social Democracy as a system or an ideology is nothing to fear.
It`s always irritating for hard working people when certain people are lazy or work the system, that is a problem here and in many other places. I personally have no sympathy for such individuals. But at the same time it is good to know that if i, for some reason, will be unable to work. My family and i wont end up on the street.
Anyway, no matter who`s your next president, you will have a better one than what you have now.

Plus, individualism is very important to Americans and we have many, many different views, ideas, religious preferences, races - the big "melting pot" - the cost to run our country that way would be insane. I noticed when I was in NL that individualism just wasn't that important as it is in US. For your Europeans - correct me if I am worng on that, but it's what I noticed.[/quote]


I think you are correct on that thejokeriv. It`s also my impression that individualism is way more important to you Americans than to Europeans.