I get sick of people.....

Download - Like - Buy
Download - Don't Like - Delete

No big surprise that i pissed off a few people with my comment. I don't get the loyalty thing for a band that no longer resembles the band that people once looked up to and had musical integrity! I still love their early records but cannot understand what fulfillment they can be getting from their "lounge act" direction. I really do hope their new record with Rick Rubin will be a return to form but i won't hold my breath. I stand behind the greed statement i made but it was actually more directed toward Mr. Lars Ulrich not so much the others. I've seen (Some Kinda Monster) and know about that oh so metal collection of art by Lars and his high society lifestyle that he would have shunned or ridiculed in his more "metal" days. Oh well i guess it's no big deal that he's a two face because alot of his loyal fans will back him no matter what, even if he completely disowns metal music in the future.

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

St Patrik wrote:

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

The person who bought then sold the album "supported" the band, but the person buying the CD used is "supporting" the store they bought it from.

St Patrik wrote:

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

What about promo copies that wind up in the used bins or on ebay? Full cd's that were sent out by the record company then get re-sold.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

St Patrik wrote:

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

What about promo copies that wind up in the used bins or on ebay? Full cd's that were sent out by the record company then get re-sold.

Those were copies the label wasn't expecting to be paid for anyway, so it's a wash for them and whoever sells it gets the money.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

St Patrik wrote:

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

What about promo copies that wind up in the used bins or on ebay? Full cd's that were sent out by the record company then get re-sold.

Those were copies the label wasn't expecting to be paid for anyway, so it's a wash for them and whoever sells it gets the money.

So isn't that stealing from the band as well? If the band doesn't get any money from that sale, how is that different from downloading for free?

And for the record, I get free copies all the time from work that I re-sell. I'm not above making a buck. The question up above is stritctly for discussion purposes.

I've never downloaded a single thing inmy life although i am SERIOUSLY tempted by some of the stuff on thrashmegeddon i.e. stuff that was never released on cd aka Energetic Krusher etc

I buy as many new releases as I can, of course, but if it weren't for used CD stores (and promo copies) I wouldn't have half of the stuff that I do. Dumpster divin' is the way to go!!

Quote :

So isn't that stealing from the band as well? If the band doesn't get any money from that sale, how is that different from downloading for free?

No. That copy was "loaned" (for lack of better term) by the label. Neither the band nor label was expecting to be paid for it anyway. It's not counted. So, they "loaned" it to someone, then that someone sells it, whatever. There is usually a disclaimer "The promotional CD is the sole property of Fat Cat Records and must be returned upon request." So, I suppose there is the question of selling someone else's property, but that's another issue. The fact remains that neither the label nor the band is expecting no money from that promo copy (which is usually why they comes with no art, or in a slipcover, or cut or something).

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

So isn't that stealing from the band as well? If the band doesn't get any money from that sale, how is that different from downloading for free?

No. That copy was "loaned" (for lack of better term) by the label. Neither the band nor label was expecting to be paid for it anyway. It's not counted. So, they "loaned" it to someone, then that someone sells it, whatever. There is usually a disclaimer "The promotional CD is the sole property of Fat Cat Records and must be returned upon request." So, I suppose there is the question of selling someone else's property, but that's another issue. The fact remains that neither the label nor the band is expecting no money from that promo copy (which is usually why they comes with no art, or in a slipcover, or cut or something).

Fair enough. But somewhere, someone is paying for those promo copies. I'm not talking about the cheapy cardboard slip cover promos. I'm talking about full artwork, jewelcase, no stamp, sealed copies that are sent out to various outlets for distribution. The only thing that might be marked is the UPC symbol which may be punched or crossed out. We get boxes of cd's sent to us all the time at work. Someone's eating the cost of those cd's.

Re-reading what I just typed, I just realized that's probably part of the reason "new" cd's cost $20. Covering the costs of promotion.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

So isn't that stealing from the band as well? If the band doesn't get any money from that sale, how is that different from downloading for free?

No. That copy was "loaned" (for lack of better term) by the label. Neither the band nor label was expecting to be paid for it anyway. It's not counted. So, they "loaned" it to someone, then that someone sells it, whatever. There is usually a disclaimer "The promotional CD is the sole property of Fat Cat Records and must be returned upon request." So, I suppose there is the question of selling someone else's property, but that's another issue. The fact remains that neither the label nor the band is expecting no money from that promo copy (which is usually why they comes with no art, or in a slipcover, or cut or something).

Fair enough. But somewhere, someone is paying for those promo copies. I'm not talking about the cheapy cardboard slip cover promos. I'm talking about full artwork, jewelcase, no stamp, sealed copies that are sent out to various outlets for distribution. The only thing that might be marked is the UPC symbol which may be punched or crossed out. We get boxes of cd's sent to us all the time at work. Someone's eating the cost of those cd's.

Re-reading what I just typed, I just realized that's probably part of the reason "new" cd's cost $20. Covering the costs of promotion.

We used to also...boxes of them...we'd sell them too (after the staff pillaged them) since we were a used CD store.

I was speaking mainly of Metal labels in terms of packaging. Candlelight Records used to send out CDRs with a paper label w/ info on it in a black paper sleeve as promos...Metal Blade gashes the UPC code and folds the back booklet...most others use the cardboard sleeve, some are generic label ones w/ stickers for the band info...Inside Out uses specially made promo artwork in jewel cases (that has to be expensive)...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

St Patrik wrote:

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

The person who bought then sold the album "supported" the band, but the person buying the CD used is "supporting" the store they bought it from.

So you get to support not only the band indirectly, but the store that sell music. Sounds good to me.

St Patrik wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

St Patrik wrote:

powermacho wrote:

there are some ep's that you pay like $8 the most. What I don't like is to see some albums for $20 and more, I just can't afford it. Last time I wanted to get a Jason Becker album but I costed $20.

What about buying cd's used? I do buy cd's used on a local store, and ebay. I think it is not so good either. I think you are not supporting the band directly. I saw a mortification cd before, and didn't buy it because I rather get it new to support the band. But I do have almost all of whitestake albums from that place used.

A used CD means it was once new. So yes, youre still supporting the band in a sense.

The person who bought then sold the album "supported" the band, but the person buying the CD used is "supporting" the store they bought it from.

So you get to support not only the band indirectly, but the store that sell music. Sounds good to me.

Bingo! I think you hit the nail on the head.

Also you gotta think that if it weren't for those people that sell their cd's they would be just sitting on their shelves never used and what good is that? I proudly buy used cd's all the time especially because alot of music is no longer in print or is expensive new as a import. I do recommend people buy new as much as possible to support the bands even though money can be tight...it's always good to try to support the bands especially these days when everything seems to be falling apart.

I buy new a lot but I'm not opposed to getting a bunch of used CDs. Also a lot of used CD stores are having to shut down so I also buy to support their business. Also used CD stores sell new CDs and will special order them if not in stock so they aren't really hurting the music business that much with their existence.

On the subject of downloading, I was reading an article in Metal Edge with Evan Sienfield (the Biohazard vocalist who left music to do porn with his wife) and he attacked people who download free music. He also proceeded to attack those who download free porn. So if you don't download music because you don't want to steal but you do download porn, then you are a hypocrite.

Metallica divides metalheads like they are capitol punishment or the abortion question. Pretty amazing.

the sentinel wrote:

Metallica divides metalheads like they are capitol punishment or the abortion question. Pretty amazing.