QUEENSRYCHE

Temple of Blood wrote:

Half of these responses prove my point.  The reaction to Tate's decisions is based on who he is personally, not what he is actually doing.

I guess when people listen to "solid" music all the time then the personalities/drama is more interesting and worthy of discussion than the actual music.

Tate is in the same camp with Nugent and Mustaine.  Half the criticisms they get no matter what they do are pure nonsense.

Metallica has sucked for decades and don't get the level of hate for everything they do as those three.  It's just ridiculous.  It's not like Kerry King is a nice guy either, but he gets a pass a lot more than those 3 do.

The metal scene is full of jerks.  So what?

Metal fans act like jilted wives.

You missed the point. My point, anyway. If Tate says one thing, and then does the complete opposite, fans are supposed to let that slide? Especially when he's often doing things that A) insult their intelligence and B) attempt to manipulate them.

And again, this is different. People do constantly criticize Nugent and Mustaine, Schaffer and Wylde, and so on, but Tate is a different animal. As I said, Tate has consistently lied in the press in recent years, contradicted himself on far more than one occasion, has been rude and disrespectful to the fans, and the list goes on. This isn't perception, this is fact. It goes beyond just being a jerk.

But good music is good music. I'm not saying he's not a jerk. I'm saying that should have no impact on how people feel about his new band name or his vocal performance or anything like that.

I think Tate is more honest about his feelings about metal music than Halford. Apparently fans let that slide just fine.

I think the fans want Tate to make a by-the-numbers uninspired metal rehash a la new JP album, new QR, or OVERKILL's 126th album. Nostalgia apparently trumps honesty and quality.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Metal fans act like jilted wives.

That's so unfair! How could you even say that?!!    (runs off sobbing)

Quote :

I think Tate is more honest about his feelings about metal music than Halford. Apparently fans let that slide just fine.

Back then. If he tried that sh*t in 2014, the internet would be all over him like white on rice. He'd be in the same predicament as Tate.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Half of these responses prove my point.  The reaction to Tate's decisions is based on who he is personally, not what he is actually doing.

I guess when people listen to "solid" music all the time then the personalities/drama is more interesting and worthy of discussion than the actual music.

Tate is in the same camp with Nugent and Mustaine.  Half the criticisms they get no matter what they do are pure nonsense.

Metallica has sucked for decades and don't get the level of hate for everything they do as those three.  It's just ridiculous.  It's not like Kerry King is a nice guy either, but he gets a pass a lot more than those 3 do.

The metal scene is full of jerks.  So what?

Metal fans act like jilted wives.

I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree here. For one, most of the time I've read of Mustaine acting "like a jerk," he was either responding to someone else who was being an equal jerk or he was drugged out of his head and he's made no secret of the fact that he wasn't a good person when he was using. That's human. That's fallible. He's also almost consistently put out great music through all of it.

With Tate, you're looking at an aggressor - like, there's no question that the dude attacked and spat on his band mates and then had the balls to SUE them to get the band name after they fired him for it. Those aren't controversial points.

Now, on TOP of that epic display of douchery, you've got the fact that QR under his leadership haven't really released a completely passable album since the early 00s and his last solo album was a joke.

Final point: we're talking about a formerly amazing singer who can now barely croak out a five note range and doesn't seem bothered by the lapse in dedication to performance and craft who was also a key ingredient in what was a totally winning team for a really impressive winning streak if you're looking at the band's recorded output from the EP even to just Empire. Not many bands get TWO good albums, and they had four and an EP to their credit (I count Promised Land, but I'm trying to keep to the middle of the road in what I'm counting here).

So, we're looking at a guy who has fallen a LONG way and still acts like he's on top of his game when he's clearly not. This goes beyond simple frontman douchery.

I'd rather hear Tate sing these days than Mustaine or Hetfield. By far.

I agree about Ted Nugent, I hate his politics but I still like his music, but anytime I post his videos on FB, at least one or two people chime about what an a**hole he is.

Geoff Tate's version of Queensryche, was not even a band and it was evident he only rush released his album to try to stick it to his old bandmates.

That being said, thou I like his album OK, it featured alot of half baked songs and pointless re-recording a few Queensryche classics.

I still Tate is an incredible vocalist, but as the saying goes trust the art not the artist.

Geoff Tate's version of QUEENSRYCHE had 3 people who had already played in QUEENSRYCHE and/or his pre-QR band MYTH.

If he teamed up with someone like Roy Z he could create a better disc than the new QR.

Temple of Blood wrote:

But good music is good music.  I'm not saying he's not a jerk.  I'm saying that should have no impact on how people feel about his new band name or his vocal performance or anything like that.

I think Tate is more honest about his feelings about metal music than Halford.  Apparently fans let that slide just fine.  

I think the fans want Tate to make a by-the-numbers uninspired metal rehash a la new JP album, new QR, or OVERKILL's 126th album.  Nostalgia apparently trumps honesty and quality.

I agree, good music is good music. Geoff being a giant dildo doesn't stop me from checking out his stuff. I bought Frequency Unknown, and I dig a few songs on it. I'll check out whatever he does next, too, under whatever name. I do think Operation: Mindcrime is a dumb name, but mainly because it's a name that in no way distances him from Queensryche, like he continues to claim he's doing. To me, it's just another childish move, like the whole FU thing. But again, none of this will affect my decision on whether or not to check out/buy whatever music he puts out in the future.

As for Tate being more honest, I'm not sure how one can think that after all that he's said in the press. His "honesty" is dictated by his lies and contradictions; he says whatever he needs to say to appease/fool people.

I talked to a buddy of mine who went to the Tate concert i missed. He had nothing but good things to say. Not a single track from FU was played, it was all classic Ryche. Empire was the closer and a couple from OM were in there. Apparently Tate's range is quite solid. No douchebaggery. Vest and hat. And a frigging 50 dollar fee for meet greet. Oh and the concert was sold out last week. Of course, this was a bar the size of a Chipotle.

corplhicks wrote:

I talked to a buddy of mine who went to the Tate concert i missed. He had nothing but good things to say. Not a single track from FU was played, it was all classic Ryche. Empire was the closer and a couple from OM were in there. Apparently Tate's range is quite solid. No douchebaggery. Vest and hat. And a frigging 50 dollar fee for meet greet. Oh and the concert was sold out last week. Of course, this was a bar the size of a Chipotle.

An author I know through Facebook saw them play around here earlier in the year. She said the same thing, which is really what most fans will tell you. As more obsessive music fans, we scrutinize everything way more than "normal" people do. They hear Tate belting out notes, for instance, but are seemingly unaware that they're the wrong notes. Haha.

Eyesore wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

I talked to a buddy of mine who went to the Tate concert i missed. He had nothing but good things to say. Not a single track from FU was played, it was all classic Ryche. Empire was the closer and a couple from OM were in there. Apparently Tate's range is quite solid. No douchebaggery. Vest and hat. And a frigging 50 dollar fee for meet greet. Oh and the concert was sold out last week. Of course, this was a bar the size of a Chipotle.

An author I know through Facebook saw them play around here earlier in the year. She said the same thing, which is really what most fans will tell you. As more obsessive music fans, we scrutinize everything way more than "normal" people do. They hear Tate belting out notes, for instance, but are seemingly unaware that they're the wrong notes. Haha.

I've even been to gigs that I thought were great and then found YouTube clips of the gig and it sounds horrible. It must suck being in a band these days with every bum note and every dumb thing you say being held up as evidence that you are the worst person in history.

I do think Tate's an asshole, I do think his voice is not what it was. I think that puts him in a very large group of singers from the 70s & 80s.

I don't really care, he could sound exactly as he did in 1984 and be the world's nicest guy, I still wouldn't like his music. If I did I would still like it despite the douchebaggery. I'd listen to a Charles Manson record if they were any good!   

I do draw the line at the Lostprophets guy though!  [/quote]

Good music is good music

A half dozen to a dozen songs in 20 years tells the story, at least to me. Dude's behavior, good/bad or right/wrong doesn't negate that. In the end, all the lying, B/S, and insulting of fans intelligence get's really, really old. Eventually leading to lack of interest as a given, regardless.

Hope the best for him

Eyesore wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

I talked to a buddy of mine who went to the Tate concert i missed. He had nothing but good things to say. Not a single track from FU was played, it was all classic Ryche. Empire was the closer and a couple from OM were in there. Apparently Tate's range is quite solid. No douchebaggery. Vest and hat. And a frigging 50 dollar fee for meet greet. Oh and the concert was sold out last week. Of course, this was a bar the size of a Chipotle.

An author I know through Facebook saw them play around here earlier in the year. She said the same thing, which is really what most fans will tell you. As more obsessive music fans, we scrutinize everything way more than "normal" people do. They hear Tate belting out notes, for instance, but are seemingly unaware that they're the wrong notes. Haha.

Yeah this guy is pretty forgiving and was virtually starstruck by the man.

It is true, though, that everything sounds better when you're there. Doesn't mean the band or singer put on a good performance, but it all does mix better at the venue, especially the smaller ones.

Tate's got bills to pay... hence the Operation:Mindcrime name... and it is 100% different than Heaven & Hell (which is just Black Sabbath playing only Dio era songs.... plus they didn't want it to be confused with the Ozzy stuff since they've been doing tours with Ozzy for a while.) Tate is trying to make as much $$$ as possible... I'm sure both bands need it - lawyers are expensive! Of course, if The Geoff wasn't a dick and just negotiated an agreement after he was fired, he have a much higher balance at his local bank. Instead, his narcissistic personality disorder reared it's ugly head and long time fans got to see the off stage Vest......

He's showing that he can sell out his gigs (to the casual fans).... as long as the bar is the size of your local Chipotle.

The vast majority of what he oversaw - let's be realistic, The Vest doesn't write music, he adds lyrics (and some vocal melodies) to someone else's songs.... and the quality of his vocal melodies have been in serious decline since DeGarmo left... he's really just a lyricist who's work has been in the shitter since 1997 (ride me like an exercise bike????) He's not a complete songwriter. He added lyrics to Jason Slater songs (songs that no one else wanted.) and brought in his old Myth buddies to write the songs..... Granted, there a few decent songs here and there - they saw even a blind squirrel can find a nut every now and then.

I'll check out the stream of what he puts out next, but if I think it sucks I will say so. If it is any good, I will give them credit where credit is due.

As far as seeing him live? Nope, done with him....

thejokeriv wrote:

I'll check out the stream of what he puts out next, but if I think it sucks I will say so. If it is any good, I will give them credit where credit is due.

As far as seeing him live? Nope, done with him....

my thoughts too. I'll take a listen and decide after that.

thejokeriv wrote:

He's not a complete songwriter. He added lyrics to Jason Slater songs (songs that no one else wanted.) and brought in his old Myth buddies to write the songs.....

He IS a songwriter...lyrics ARE songs...they are not music. Before there were instruments, there were words, melodies and voices. When those 3 things happen, that's as much songwriting as someone putting a melody together on a piano.

Also, how do you know the songs he wrote w/ Slater were leftovers that nobody wanted? How do you know they weren't written WITH GT and FOR GT?

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

He's not a complete songwriter. He added lyrics to Jason Slater songs (songs that no one else wanted.) and brought in his old Myth buddies to write the songs.....

He IS a songwriter...lyrics ARE songs...they are not music. Before there were instruments, there were words, melodies and voices. When those 3 things happen, that's as much songwriting as someone putting a melody together on a piano.

Also, how do you know the songs he wrote w/ Slater were leftovers that nobody wanted? How do you know they weren't written WITH GT and FOR GT?

Prior to and just after the release of Frequency Unknown, a number of the songs on the album were on Slater's website. They were demos written for and never used by his other projects, like Snake River Conspiracy. Songs like "Dare" and "Slave," aside from being re-recorded, are virtually no different from the demo version. They disappeared from his site quickly, once fans realized Frequency Unknown was a bit of a joke.

I believe some of the demos that are still up there were used, at least in part, on Dedicated to Chaos.

Eyesore wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

He's not a complete songwriter. He added lyrics to Jason Slater songs (songs that no one else wanted.) and brought in his old Myth buddies to write the songs.....

He IS a songwriter...lyrics ARE songs...they are not music. Before there were instruments, there were words, melodies and voices. When those 3 things happen, that's as much songwriting as someone putting a melody together on a piano.

Also, how do you know the songs he wrote w/ Slater were leftovers that nobody wanted? How do you know they weren't written WITH GT and FOR GT?

Prior to and just after the release of Frequency Unknown, a number of the songs on the album were on Slater's website. They were demos written for and never used by his other projects, like Snake River Conspiracy. Songs like "Dare" and "Slave," aside from being re-recorded, are virtually no different from the demo version. They disappeared from his site quickly, once fans realized Frequency Unknown was a bit of a joke.

I believe some of the demos that are still up there were used, at least in part, on Dedicated to Chaos.  

Ok, cool. I was not aware of that. Or if it was pointed out before, I didn't notice.

Either way, as big a douche as GT is/may be, if he's coming up with lyrics, concepts, melodies, structure...even if he's not putting notes together on a musical instrument, he's still a songwriter.

This is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and one my friend, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

ultmetal wrote:

This is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and one my friend, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

  

Eyesore wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

He's not a complete songwriter. He added lyrics to Jason Slater songs (songs that no one else wanted.) and brought in his old Myth buddies to write the songs.....

He IS a songwriter...lyrics ARE songs...they are not music. Before there were instruments, there were words, melodies and voices. When those 3 things happen, that's as much songwriting as someone putting a melody together on a piano.

Also, how do you know the songs he wrote w/ Slater were leftovers that nobody wanted? How do you know they weren't written WITH GT and FOR GT?

Prior to and just after the release of Frequency Unknown, a number of the songs on the album were on Slater's website. They were demos written for and never used by his other projects, like Snake River Conspiracy. Songs like "Dare" and "Slave," aside from being re-recorded, are virtually no different from the demo version. They disappeared from his site quickly, once fans realized Frequency Unknown was a bit of a joke.

I believe some of the demos that are still up there were used, at least in part, on Dedicated to Chaos.  

Ken beat me to it on the response....

And as far as songwriting, my main gripe with Tate is that he claims he wrote the music (81% of it according to The Vest)... according to the rest of the band, he wrote just the lyrics and DeGarmo (or whoever else) came up with the vocal melodies, making him more of lyricist than an actual songwriter. Hell, if he was more honest he could call himself a poet and stop claiming he wrote the music to the songs. Remember back in the day when songs used to say music by and words/lyrics by?

My point is writing lyrics does not mean he wrote the song... it's missing the other three parts you mentioned.....

Plus, I play guitar and you sing - I have the exact same argument with my brother (who sings..... the guitar player in his band with agrees with me - lol!)

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

He's not a complete songwriter. He added lyrics to Jason Slater songs (songs that no one else wanted.) and brought in his old Myth buddies to write the songs.....

He IS a songwriter...lyrics ARE songs...they are not music. Before there were instruments, there were words, melodies and voices. When those 3 things happen, that's as much songwriting as someone putting a melody together on a piano.

Also, how do you know the songs he wrote w/ Slater were leftovers that nobody wanted? How do you know they weren't written WITH GT and FOR GT?

Prior to and just after the release of Frequency Unknown, a number of the songs on the album were on Slater's website. They were demos written for and never used by his other projects, like Snake River Conspiracy. Songs like "Dare" and "Slave," aside from being re-recorded, are virtually no different from the demo version. They disappeared from his site quickly, once fans realized Frequency Unknown was a bit of a joke.

I believe some of the demos that are still up there were used, at least in part, on Dedicated to Chaos.  

Ok, cool. I was not aware of that. Or if it was pointed out before, I didn't notice.

Either way, as big a douche as GT is/may be, if he's coming up with lyrics, concepts, melodies, structure...even if he's not putting notes together on a musical instrument, he's still a songwriter.

I don't necessarily disagree that someone who provides lyrics and melodies is a songwriter. I've written songs in my head long before I wrote music for it. My only issue with Tate is his constant insistence that he wrote those songs, as if none of the other guys had any influence or say in the matter. We all know that's not true. Are we really to believe that Tate wrote 80% of Queensryche's material? Come on.

Fat Freddy wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

This is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and one my friend, some people started singing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

  

YES