QUEENSRYCHE

I have a weird feeling that we're going to see another version of the Pink Floyd split here. Weird metaphor, but walk with me a moment...

Roger Waters solo is high on concept, but not always so solid when it comes to presentation. Gilmour's PF is high on presentation, but sometimes a bit stupid lyrically. I like both, but I can't help the feeling that we'd have gotten something truly amazing if the two forces could have maintained their "marriage."

With QR, the new self-titled is good, but the songs don't feel quite... finished. They're good and they have vibe in spades (very Promised Land, which I love the hell out of), but something's not quite there. With FU, there are some ok songs that feel more like demos that could have been hashed into something better. So, Tate still has something resembling songwriting chops, but has no concept of presentation or vibe and QR is great with presentation and vibe, but maybe not the best songwriting team going these days.

Just my take, but it did make me sad to realize it probably wasn't going to be as simple as "shuffle the lineup and usher in a new era of classic recordings."

Not sure why we are assuming that the rest of the QR guys are any smarter. Nicer maybe. But smarter?

The default is to see a situation in which a d*** is ruining a band like you'd see a cancer patient pending treatment.

You operate, the tumor comes out, and health returns.

Sadly, this isn't always so in bands.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Not sure why we are assuming that the rest of the QR guys are any smarter.  Nicer maybe.  But smarter?

I have no idea if they are any smarter, I have rarely seen the other 3 guys interviewed til recently, I do know that former member Chris DeGarmo was a smart dude based on interviews.

Chris DeGarmo is the smartest by far, because he was smart enough to stay the hell away from this whole cartoonish sideshow. I'm sure he's happy living his life and collecting royalties.

Yeah. It makes me wonder if any of this would've gone down if he was in the band. Let's face it ... it was his band and him leaving left them leaderless and lost.

How is DeGarmo the smartest? If the rumors are true, he left because he didn't get along with Geoff's wife. If I were going to make some baseless comment I'd call him weak, not smart.

I don't believe that, of course, but the logic would be the same.

I love DeGarmo as a guitarist and songwriter; he was actually one of the main reasons I ever listened to the band growing up (and I love that hat he wore). Otherwise, I know nothing about him.

Eyesore wrote:

How is DeGarmo the smartest? 

It was not meant literally.

corplhicks wrote:

I love DeGarmo as a guitarist and songwriter; he was actually one of the main reasons I ever listened to the band growing up (and I love that hat he wore). Otherwise, I know nothing about him.

And I know Tate as a vocalist and songwriter and don't personally know him at all, so I don't hate him like a lot of QR fans seem to at the moment.

Somewhere in the court documents, I think it was put out there by the other QR guys that DeGarmo wrote all of the vocal melodies or at least coached them into the final form from very rough ideas. It's not really off-base when you look at what came after to say that QR was DG's band.

He might have been one of those rare cases of someone who made enough money, said what he wanted to say and explored what he wanted to explore and was ready to move on. Disliking Geoff or his wife may have just been the sign of, "I really don't care enough to fight for this anymore." If I made bang buck doing something I loved and felt like I'd crossed the finish line, I'd be lying if I said the thought wouldn't occur to me to move to something else.

More than a few bands have been accused to lingering past their expiration date...

Runicen wrote:

He might have been one of those rare cases of someone who made enough money, said what he wanted to say and explored what he wanted to explore and was ready to move on.  Disliking Geoff or his wife may have just been the sign of, "I really don't care enough to fight for this anymore."  If I made bang buck doing something I loved and felt like I'd crossed the finish line, I'd be lying if I said the thought wouldn't occur to me to move to something else.  

More than a few bands have been accused to lingering past their expiration date...

I think that too...

With all due respect, I personally feel they don't really need DeGarmo anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the s/t, which I feel is way better than the last 3 records the original band made, was proof that Tate was the problem rather than DeGarmo not being there anymore. Lundgren has a good report with Wilton live, and judging by Where Dreams Go To Die, he certainly has songwriting chops too. The next album will be really interesting. La Torre can play instruments and thus contributes as well, that's probably why the great vocal melodies are back, too.

stpatrik wrote:

With all due respect, I personally feel they don't really need DeGarmo anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the s/t, which I feel is way better than the last 3 records the original band made, was proof that Tate was the problem rather than DeGarmo not being there anymore. Lundgren has a good report with Wilton live, and judging by Where Dreams Go To Die, he certainly has songwriting chops too. The next album will be really interesting. La Torre can play instruments and thus contributes as well, that's probably why the great vocal melodies are back, too.

This is a distinct possibility. Whatever the next album from Toddryche is, it'll pretty much show whether they can really pull it out of the bag or if the new self-titled was about all the gas they had left in the tank. For my part, I'm hoping for a total triumph.

One observation on the new one that is a little problematic (and Todd being more of an instrumentalist/musician himself than Tate may address this as he's brought in more on the writing side) is that the vocal melodies were pretty pedestrian and uninteresting - to the point that, even now, Tate could have probably sung them without much difficulty even with his drastically reduced range.

While not Rage for Order quality I felt the vocal melodies were greatly improved from the last few albums. They might not be as focused on them as in the past.

Runicen wrote:

stpatrik wrote:

With all due respect, I personally feel they don't really need DeGarmo anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the s/t, which I feel is way better than the last 3 records the original band made, was proof that Tate was the problem rather than DeGarmo not being there anymore. Lundgren has a good report with Wilton live, and judging by Where Dreams Go To Die, he certainly has songwriting chops too. The next album will be really interesting. La Torre can play instruments and thus contributes as well, that's probably why the great vocal melodies are back, too.

This is a distinct possibility.  Whatever the next album from Toddryche is, it'll pretty much show whether they can really pull it out of the bag or if the new self-titled was about all the gas they had left in the tank.  For my part, I'm hoping for a total triumph.

One observation on the new one that is a little problematic (and Todd being more of an instrumentalist/musician himself than Tate may address this as he's brought in more on the writing side) is that the vocal melodies were pretty pedestrian and uninteresting - to the point that, even now, Tate could have probably sung them without much difficulty even with his drastically reduced range.

I can se La Torre sorta held back a little, but no way Tate could sing ém. Judging by the pro shot show from Brazil, he can barely hold a note anymore, much less make his way through harmonies without failing. Besides Paul Stanley, I really can't think of another vocalist whose range has diminished so drastically.

I hadn't heard Stanley since the Psycho Circus days and a friend recently played Monster for me. Granted, he's older than petrified dog crap, but I was still pretty shocked at how different he sounds.

The real shame is that Tate's probably still got the potential to pull it together. He has moments that convince me that "the voice" could still make a comeback. "Weight of the World" on FU was one of his better post-2000 vocal turns as far as I'm concerned. In general, songwriting quality aside (mixed), FU had him sounding more invested in what he was singing since Q2K as far as I'm concerned.

I still think this is all actually one big real-life concept album in the making

When the Toddryche album came out, I noticed also that, IMO, Tate could have sang much of that material just fine. And, the best songs on FU were better, IMO, than the best songs on Toddryche.

I think Tate could pull his voice back together, if he'd get off the road, hook up with a coach and woodshed the hell out of this throat. He's like Joe Elliot at this point, sounding really good in lower registers, but with a blown high register. I do think he could reel himself back in, but he'd have to put in the work.

You want range reduction, then Dokken is your man

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:

I still think this is all actually one big real-life concept album in the making

Maybe this is what they envisioned after Promised Land. This is the proof of concept.   

Dark Horseman wrote:

You want range reduction, then Dokken is your man

  

Yep!

BTW - Tate's range is gone compared to what it used to be... He sounds ok in his lower register.... which is why prior to his firing and in his new solo band, the songs are down tuned... When La Torre joined they started playing the songs in the original key again.

This isn't meant as a knock against La Torre because I sure as hell couldn't do it, but over the range of live videos I've seen of the new lineup on Youtube, he sounds like he's a stiff breeze from shredding his pipes when he hits those notes. I mean, he's squeezing pretty damn hard to get those sounds out...

Runicen wrote:

This isn't meant as a knock against La Torre because I sure as hell couldn't do it, but over the range of live videos I've seen of the new lineup on Youtube, he sounds like he's a stiff breeze from shredding his pipes when he hits those notes.  I mean, he's squeezing pretty damn hard to get those sounds out...

You could hear that coming a mile away when he first joined. He was impressive, but you could hear that there was no way he was gonna tour continuously and hold up. Just a few months in he was screaming (not singing) many of those high notes (especially QoTR). He's my age and has never toured at Ryche's level...he's got a TOUGH road ahead of him. He better dial it back a little (more) on future material.

In the video I posted above, La Torre sounds perfect. Haven't checked to see if they downtuned or not, but he's spot on, even, with the live parts, maybe a falter here or there but what singer is impervious to that?