80s true American Metal / USPM

corplhicks wrote:

but anvil is thrash

No matter how small you write it, it still isn't true.

Boris2008 wrote:

I still don't really understand what makes true U.S power metal different from a lot of other heavy metal from Europe & Canada. If Raven, Exciter, Anvil, Grim Reaper, Warlock and Grave Digger were American, would they make the list?

To me it is much more about a certain style, than about the origin of the band. I like to use that term in distinction against what people sometime ago started to call "Power Metal" and what I call European Flower Metal. Best example for an album of that style, not coming from the US would be Sword - Metalized.

And yes, Anvil is not and was never Thrash.

Quote :

Ruthless - Discipline Of Steel

Another must have record.

Since The Rods were mentioned earlier

firestarter wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

I still don't really understand what makes true U.S power metal different from a lot of other heavy metal from Europe & Canada. If Raven, Exciter, Anvil, Grim Reaper, Warlock and Grave Digger were American, would they make the list?

To me it is much more about a certain style, than about the origin of the band. I like to use that term in distinction against what people sometime ago started to call "Power Metal" and what I call European Flower Metal. Best example for an album of that style, not coming from the US would be Sword - Metalized.

And yes, Anvil is not and was never Thrash.

Good post!

Destined to walk this lonely road...

Sword - Metalized is good, but I'm not sure it's early 80's.

Believe it or not, Twisted Sister (Under the Blade, Cant Stop Rock & Roll, and even certain songs from Stay Hungry and Come Out and Play fit this description)

While Twisted Sister are generally agreed upon as being a true heavy metal band, I don't think I've ever seen them labeled as USPM. But then, it's one of those loosely defined scene-genres anyway, just like NWOBHM, hair metal or grunge.

Boris2008 wrote:

I still don't really understand what makes true U.S power metal different from a lot of other heavy metal from Europe & Canada. If Raven, Exciter, Anvil, Grim Reaper, Warlock and Grave Digger were American, would they make the list?

Yup.

It's all just heavy metal!

Boris2008 wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

but anvil is thrash

No matter how small you write it, it still isn't true.

Anvil definitely pushed the boundries of thrash metal from time to time, but Anvil have always been metal! However they can never be "80s true American Metal"

Boris2008 wrote:

I still don't really understand what makes true U.S power metal different from a lot of other heavy metal from Europe & Canada. If Raven, Exciter, Anvil, Grim Reaper, Warlock and Grave Digger were American, would they make the list?

USPM has a very distinctive sound, or so I thought before this thread came up :PFor instance, bands like Manilla Road, Omen, Fates Warning with Arch - epic, narrative, anthemic and a tad mystical -  had no analogues by the time (84-87) in Europe (I can only think of an odd band from The Netherlands called Martyr. Released two albums during 84-85 which sound sort of close to USPM, flavoured with NWOBHM and some speed metal that didn't even exist by the time). And then there are groups like Titan Force, Screamer, Gargoyle - those who took The Warning of Ryche as a landmark. I like to call them progressive power. And also those who occasionly ran into thrash territory: Metal Church, Oliver Magnum, Chastain - simply power metal or american power metal. Keeps it somewhat categorized for me. And all of them do sound WAY DIFFERENT from Anvil, The Rods and Twisted Sister. WTH.
"End of genre war "

Imo the point of the thread was to come up with Manilla Road, Omen type of stuff. The closer the better. And not to list every US band of the era. Not saying they are bad... (Anvil is tho )

No to add fuel to fire and honestly I don't get genre wars to begin with for me it's more of a personal classification than an objective label.

I agree with Bear... USPM has a distinct sound that neither sounds too Europe nor too American ironically. There is an evident NWOBHM influence but it is taken in a different direction than say the way it influenced US thrash metal bands.

There is certainly an epic flavour to USPM and I think it's also what makes this sound rather distinct geographically for the US. Perhaps I am wrong but I don't find many US metal bands (from the 80s) to have an epic sound. Most either go for an aggressive sound or a softer, more pop-rock / glam sound. Nothing wrong with either, all I am saying is the 'epicness' of USPM is scarcer in this mix.

The sound of USPM also feel like an unpolished, rawer power metal style. There's I guess a 'darker' sound in USPM while in Europe, power metal became extremely over the top and happy.

BearOnUnicycle - you can't really be 20 years old, can you? Name dropping bands like that.

I used to get that in the early days of the internet but in all seriousness, age doesn't impact knowledge of bands anymore thanks to the internet.

Rateyourmusic for example has lists of every genre imaginable and for any year you can think of. Couple that with youtube and spotify / pandora etc and you have instant access to any type of band you can think of.

Lari wrote:

BearOnUnicycle - you can't really be 20 years old, can you? Name dropping bands like that.

A lot of time coupled with unlimeted internet resource and unnatural obsession with music listening. Wait for a thread about prog-power - there I'll be unleashed. If I got your question right

BearOnUnicycle wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

I still don't really understand what makes true U.S power metal different from a lot of other heavy metal from Europe & Canada. If Raven, Exciter, Anvil, Grim Reaper, Warlock and Grave Digger were American, would they make the list?

USPM has a very distinctive sound, or so I thought before this thread came up :PFor instance, bands like Manilla Road, Omen, Fates Warning with Arch - epic, narrative, anthemic and a tad mystical -  had no analogues by the time (84-87) in Europe (I can only think of an odd band from The Netherlands called Martyr. Released two albums during 84-85 which sound sort of close to USPM, flavoured with NWOBHM and some speed metal that didn't even exist by the time). And then there are groups like Titan Force, Screamer, Gargoyle - those who took The Warning of Ryche as a landmark. I like to call them progressive power. And also those who occasionly ran into thrash territory: Metal Church, Oliver Magnum, Chastain - simply power metal or american power metal. Keeps it somewhat categorized for me. And all of them do sound WAY DIFFERENT from Anvil, The Rods and Twisted Sister. WTH.
"End of genre war "

Imo the point of the thread was to come up with Manilla Road, Omen type of stuff. The closer the better. And not to list every US band of the era. Not saying they are bad... (Anvil is tho )

This, this, this!! I always find it strange when people just start naming random bands in thread about specific sub genres. Like when Dio and Maiden turns up in threads about power metal!

When the sub genre is as difficult to define as this one, it's hardly surprising! I don't mean any disrespect but I just hear heavy metal of varying quality (I am going to check out Manilla Road, they seem interesting)

It seems as though a lot of the scene's identity was in the lyrics and imagery rather than the music.

kmorg wrote:

This, this, this!! I always find it strange when people just start naming random bands in thread about specific sub genres. Like when Dio and Maiden turns up in threads about power metal!

And Def Leppard in heavy metal. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Boris wrote:

When the sub genre is as difficult to define as this one, it's hardly surprising! I don't mean any disrespect but I just hear heavy metal of varying quality (I am going to check out Manilla Road, they seem interesting)

It seems as though a lot of the scene's identity was in the lyrics and imagery rather than the music.

The vocals of Mark Shelton ruins this band completly for my liking. If you happen to like them, or even find them a point of appeal, then go for Brocas Helm and Thunder Rider too. Pretty much the same thing.

This is where I get confused. Armored Saint, Saint, and Helstar are power-metal, as according to NLTM, before the label got applied to Helloween, HammerFall, Primal Fear, Rhapsody, Sonata Arctica, and Blind Guardian and all the bands that they influenced. I am with you so far, no problem.

Now this thread is about US Power Metal, but NOT bands that sound like the aforementioned which would automatically NOT include bands like Armored Saint, Saint, Crystavox, Armageddon and the like but rather focus on Manilla Road, Fates Warning, and Jag Panzer? I get that we all categorize our tunes a little differently but seriously, this is crazy. .

To me bands that are not super aggressive and speed/thrash metal but definitely more aggressive than pop-metal (think Poison and their cronies) are power metal. This includes bands like (Early) TNT, Priest, Maiden, HammerFall, Saint, Armored Saint, Savatage, Metal Church, Loudness, and so on.  ERGO, power metal as I have come to loosely understand the term is a way to classify bands that fall in between Thrash/Speed and Pop/Hair/Glam metal.

jettafiend wrote:

To me bands that are not super aggressive and speed/thrash metal but definitely more aggressive than pop-metal (think Poison and their cronies) are power metal. This includes bands like (Early) TNT, Priest, Maiden, HammerFall, Saint, Armored Saint, Savatage, Metal Church, Loudness, and so on.  

Actually, what you just described is HEAVY METAL.  No subgenre tags required. I think a good 60% of all subgenre tags are completely unnecessary.

Metal is Metal...period

The only REAL difference is that some are magnetic while other are non-ferrous

S.D. wrote:

jettafiend wrote:

To me bands that are not super aggressive and speed/thrash metal but definitely more aggressive than pop-metal (think Poison and their cronies) are power metal. This includes bands like (Early) TNT, Priest, Maiden, HammerFall, Saint, Armored Saint, Savatage, Metal Church, Loudness, and so on.  

Actually, what you just described is HEAVY METAL.  No subgenre tags required.  I think a good 60% of all subgenre tags are completely unnecessary.  

EXACTLY!! Thank-You! I would venture to say that the percentage is closer to 70-80% IMHO

https://myspace.com/koctave/music/songs

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/K-Octave/6550

http://www.nolifetilmetal.com/koctave.htm

http://www.metal-metropolis.com/koctave.htm

 

TRIUMPHANT!1

Although they are British, the band Cloven Hoof has a sound similar to what this thread describes on their albums Dominator and A Sultan's Ransom.

I enjoy Damien, Deadly Blessing,Attacker,Crimson Glory,Hittman,early Queensryche,Hellion,Lizzy Borden etc.