What if......................

I was gonna post this in Let The Music Do The Talkin ?

If it needs to me moved, feel free, no harm...no foul.....no hurt feelings

Anyways. on with it ! I'll give a question and my own take...please give your opinion as well, if any.

1) What if John Bonham wouldn't of died ? Would Zeppelin have continued with the keyboard based music ?

I believe Zeppelin would of called it a day shortly thereafter anyways

2)What if Bon Scott hadn't of died and finished what had been initially began on Back in Black ? Would it have been the huge success it became ?

AC/DC would of still been huge.....even more so. Bon Scott was maturing as a songwriter and his unique and clever lyrical ability was sorely missed after his death.

3)What if Schenker stayed with UFO after the American succes of Strangers In The Night ? How different would the next studio lp of been than other than No Place To Run with Chapman ?

If ya look at what MSG did as opposed to the first Chapman record. I kinda'sorta think ya get an idea as to what could've been. Barden is a good front man but ya have to be blind not to see the similarities between him and Mogg. Especially, onstage.

4)What if Peter Criss had stayed in KISS ? Would The Elder or even Creatures of ever happened ?

I believe KISS would of faded away.....for awhile anyways

5)What if Di' Anno wouldn't of been fired from Maiden ? Would the band be as huge as they are now ? even together still ? or would of Bruce been a star if he stayed with Samson ?

Miaden would of went the route of say Saxon.....Big in Europe perhaps, not so much in the States. Bruce would of stayed virtually unknown if he had stayed in Samson. His start with Maiden and thus superstardom was due mostly to timing than the fact of the talent in the band.

OK, I'll play...

What if Metallica hadn't kicked out Dave Mustaine?

...James Hetfield would probably still be in jail today on a murder charge

Fat Freddy wrote:

OK, I'll play...

What if Metallica hadn't kicked out Dave Mustaine?

...James Hetfield would probably still be in jail today on a murder charge

That could of actually happened

What is your take on any or all of my 5 questions ?

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What is your take on any or all of my 5 questions ?

...If Bon had been on "Back in Black" it probably would've been even more awesome than it already is. Dunno if it would've sold as huge but at the very least it would've continued AC/DC's slow-n-steady climb.

...If Peter Criss had stayed with KISS... Eric Carr would still be cleaning gas stoves in Brooklyn, and KISS probably would've limped along for a few more years before turning off the lights. Peter would either be dead now or recording doo-wop albums (which is almost the same thing, I reckon)

If Di'Anno had stayed with Maiden... Steve Harris would've gotten sick of him and left the band, then he would've hooked up with Bruce and started their own competing band that would've eventually crushed Maiden in popularity

Not knowledgeable enough about UFO or Zep to tackle either of those Q's.

What if Ozzy would have remained out of Sabbath in 1978 and Never Say Die was released with Dave Walker behind the mic. Would the incredible Dio-era Sabbath albums ever have happened?

ultmetal wrote:

What if Ozzy would have remained out of Sabbath in 1978 and Never Say Die was released with Dave Walker behind the mic. Would the incredible Dio-era Sabbath albums ever have happened?

Much worse.....Fenholt as frontman. Walker would of been interesting cause I liked what he did in Savoy Brown. Dio saved Sabbath and gave heavy music a shot in the arm that was needed at that time .

What if the entire Vengeance Rising line-up hadn't quit after "Once Dead"? "Destruction Comes" would have been a completely different, and probably incredible album.

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1) What if John Bonham wouldn't of died ? Would Zeppelin have continued with the keyboard based music ?

I believe Zeppelin would of called it a day shortly thereafter anyways

Yup, I think you're on the right track there, although I think they would have carried on. Look at most of the big acts from the 70's as they transitioned into the 80's. They got caught up in the new technology of the day (keys & synths) and put out over-produced crapola. Not saying it's a good or bad thing. It just was a sign of the times.

Is there any 70's-era rock band that produced better music in the 80's? You might find a coupla gems here and there, but you'd be hard-pressed to find 80's-era that surpasses their 70's output.

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2)What if Bon Scott hadn't of died and finished what had been initially began on Back in Black ? Would it have been the huge success it became ?

AC/DC would of still been huge.....even more so. Bon Scott was maturing as a songwriter and his unique and clever lyrical ability was sorely missed after his death.

Another one where I think you're on the right track. They were finally starting to break the US market and their next album would have been huge. Maybe not BiB-huge, but a big seller nonetheless. If anything, Bon's death in theory, should have derailed them altogether. They were the exception to the rule.

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3)What if Schenker stayed with UFO after the American succes of Strangers In The Night ? How different would the next studio lp of been than other than No Place To Run with Chapman ?

No comment on this one. I don't know UFO and their history well enough.

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4)What if Peter Criss had stayed in KISS ? Would The Elder or even Creatures of ever happened ?

I believe KISS would of faded away.....for awhile anyways

Eh, I dunno. Seems like by that time, Gene & Paul were steering the ship, so those albums would've happened regardless of Peter's input. They would just use studio musicians anyway.

ultmetal wrote:

What if the entire Vengeance Rising line-up hadn't quit after "Once Dead"? "Destruction Comes" would have been a completely different, and probably incredible album.

Perhaps.....

Then we wouldn't of gotten Die Happy

That leads to another question...what would of Robin done if Die Happy never happened ?

Oops, forgot one...

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5)What if Di' Anno wouldn't of been fired from Maiden ? Would the band be as huge as they are now ? even together still ? or would of Bruce been a star if he stayed with Samson ?

Miaden would of went the route of say Saxon.....Big in Europe perhaps, not so much in the States. Bruce would of stayed virtually unknown if he had stayed in Samson. His start with Maiden and thus superstardom was due mostly to timing than the fact of the talent in the band.

If Paul stayed with Maiden, they wouldn't have risen above a cult-following club band. They'd probably be regarded as an excellent NWOBHM band that noone ever heard of, like so many countless other of that era.

While I'm not all that familair with Samson's work, I'd venture to say that with Bruce's input and charisma, he probably could have taken Samson to greater success than they had, but nowhere near what Maiden had achieved.

James B. wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

What if the entire Vengeance Rising line-up hadn't quit after "Once Dead"? "Destruction Comes" would have been a completely different, and probably incredible album.

Perhaps.....

Then we wouldn't of gotten Die Happy

That leads to another question...what would of Robin done if Die Happy never happened ?

Did you know that the original singer for Die Happy was Mike Lee of Barren Cross fame. However he pulled some rock star crap on the band and Robin. Doug Thieme like Robin because of the similarities in his voice to Ian Gillan, Doug's favorite vocalist.

Fat Freddy wrote:

OK, I'll play...

What if Metallica hadn't kicked out Dave Mustaine?

...James Hetfield would probably still be in jail today on a murder charge

I think Dave, Cliff and Lars would have butted heads on the direction of the band, while James stood by silently, waiting to side with whomever won the battle, which I'm guessing would have been Dave, since he was a lunatic. So Dave & James would carry on the name Metallica while Cliff said "F*ck this, I'm outta here" and started his own band. Lars would eventually give up drumming and move onto label management or promotion, looking for the lastest trend or "hot act" to latch onto. A PR Douchebag, if you will.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Oops, forgot one...

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5)What if Di' Anno wouldn't of been fired from Maiden ? Would the band be as huge as they are now ? even together still ? or would of Bruce been a star if he stayed with Samson ?

Miaden would of went the route of say Saxon.....Big in Europe perhaps, not so much in the States. Bruce would of stayed virtually unknown if he had stayed in Samson. His start with Maiden and thus superstardom was due mostly to timing than the fact of the talent in the band.

If Paul stayed with Maiden, they wouldn't have risen above a cult-following club band. They'd probably be regarded as an excellent NWOBHM band that noone ever heard of, like so many countless other of that era.

While I'm not all that familair with Samson's work, I'd venture to say that with Bruce's input and charisma, he probably could have taken Samson to greater success than they had, but nowhere near what Maiden had achieved.

I don't know. Maiden was already bigger than a club band at the point that they parted ways with Di'Anno. It's a guessing game, but I don't think their momentum would have died as they were gaining momentum at the time by leaps and bounds. Bruce just threw 'em over the top.

ultmetal wrote:

James B. wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

What if the entire Vengeance Rising line-up hadn't quit after "Once Dead"? "Destruction Comes" would have been a completely different, and probably incredible album.

Perhaps.....

Then we wouldn't of gotten Die Happy

That leads to another question...what would of Robin done if Die Happy never happened ?

Did you know that the original singer for Die Happy was Mike Lee of Barren Cross fame. However he pulled some rock star crap on the band and Robin. Doug Thieme like Robin because of the similarities in his voice to Ian Gillan, Doug's favorite vocalist.

I recall you or somebody else mentioning that before. MTV playing "Imaginary Music" had quite the effect on Mike it seems.

I remember the Mike before the Enigma deal and the one afterwards. He seemed very humble at Cali-Stone and even thanked me for the cash I had sent to support his motor home/mobile studio endeavor while kickin it in France. Talented guy nonetheless, but can get out there at times.

ultmetal wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Oops, forgot one...

Quote :

5)What if Di' Anno wouldn't of been fired from Maiden ? Would the band be as huge as they are now ? even together still ? or would of Bruce been a star if he stayed with Samson ?

Miaden would of went the route of say Saxon.....Big in Europe perhaps, not so much in the States. Bruce would of stayed virtually unknown if he had stayed in Samson. His start with Maiden and thus superstardom was due mostly to timing than the fact of the talent in the band.

If Paul stayed with Maiden, they wouldn't have risen above a cult-following club band. They'd probably be regarded as an excellent NWOBHM band that noone ever heard of, like so many countless other of that era.

While I'm not all that familair with Samson's work, I'd venture to say that with Bruce's input and charisma, he probably could have taken Samson to greater success than they had, but nowhere near what Maiden had achieved.

I don't know. Maiden was already bigger than a club band at the point that they parted ways with Di'Anno. It's a guessing game, but I don't think their momentum would have died as they were gaining momentum at the time by leaps and bounds. Bruce just threw 'em over the top.

What I mean is that they wouldn't have gotten any bigger with Paul. Their momentum might have carried them for another album or 2, but they'd eventually level off. Bruce took them up a notch and then continued to build upon that. I don't think Paul was capable of that.

What if Steve Clark would not have passed away when he did? Would Def Leppard have continued the downward spiral after Hysteria?

Based on the Hysteria session tracks included on Retro-Active and the more commercial sound of Adrenalize I think that they would have found a balance between the two. Adrenalize sounds like the pendulum was swinging back towards the hard rock/metal sounds of the past but never quite got there. My theory is that Joe Elliott, in part, blames the metal sound of the band for Steve Clarks drinking that killed him and the loss of Rick Allen's arm (Total guess based on interviews that I have watched, no firm reason). The future of the band would have gotten softer than Hn'D but not the crap that is "Sparkle Lounge." They would have maintained that more rocking side.

(Side note - Adrenalize is hands down my favorite DL album followed by Retro-Active, so there may be some bias involved. Hysteria still makes me wanna vomit tho, and always has).

Interesting....

1) What if John Bonham wouldn't of died ? Would Zeppelin have continued with the keyboard based music ?

I think they would have evolved and left the keys behind for at least a few more albums and then called it a day. The stuff they started to come up with didn't have the same magic as the earlier albums. Its been a while since I listened to CODA but I remember it sounding like a complete mess. I only liked about 2 songs on it, I really have to go back and revisit it again.

2)What if Bon Scott hadn't of died and finished what had been initially began on Back in Black ? Would it have been the huge success it became ?

I agree with you on this one. Bon was a great frontman.

3)What if Schenker stayed with UFO after the American succes of Strangers In The Night ? How different would the next studio lp of been than other than No Place To Run with Chapman ?

Can't comment on this I don't really know anything UFO of Schenker

4)What if Peter Criss had stayed in KISS ? Would The Elder or even Creatures of ever happened ?

Do you really think Gene and Paul would have let Peter stay in Kiss? They would have gotten rid of him anyway. Even though Peter didn't play on The Elder wasn't he in the video for World Without Heroes?

5)What if Di' Anno wouldn't of been fired from Maiden ? Would the band be as huge as they are now ? even together still ? or would of Bruce been a star if he stayed with Samson ?

I've always wondered this myself. The style on those first 2 albums are completely different from what they turned into by the 3rd album. To me they kind of started to slip a little with Killers. Don't get me wrong its a great album but the S/T destroys it. They would have eventually faded away if Di'Anno was still their vocalist. Look how many albums he put out since he left Maiden and how well did they do? No one cared. It would be interesting to see what they actually could have done with him though. I'd still like to see Maiden do a song with all the vocalists together.

I think Bruce would have eventually became a star without Maidens help. He needed the right band it just ended up being Maiden. No one knew that was going to work.

jettafiend wrote:

What if Steve Clark would not have passed away when he did? Would Def Leppard have continued the downward spiral after Hysteria?

Based on the Hysteria session tracks included on Retro-Active and the more commercial sound of Adrenalize I think that they would have found a balance between the two. Adrenalize sounds like the pendulum was swinging back towards the hard rock/metal sounds of the past but never quite got there. My theory is that Joe Elliott, in part, blames the metal sound of the band for Steve Clarks drinking that killed him and the loss of Rick Allen's arm (Total guess based on interviews that I have watched, no firm reason). The future of the band would have gotten softer than Hn'D but not the crap that is "Sparkle Lounge." They would have maintained that more rocking side.

(Side note - Adrenalize is hands down my favorite DL album followed by Retro-Active, so there may be some bias involved. Hysteria still makes me wanna vomit tho, and always has).

Interesting take.....seems Joe will change his opibnion on whatever due to how it's gonna play out for exposure to the band. He would of made of good politician.

If Mustaine would've stayed there wouldn't have been a band after about two more albums imo.

I enjoy Bon's stuff but BiB started something incredible to me.



Here's one. What if The Crucified had continued after Pillars? They had a couple of excelllent songs already.

James B. wrote:

jettafiend wrote:

What if Steve Clark would not have passed away when he did? Would Def Leppard have continued the downward spiral after Hysteria?

Based on the Hysteria session tracks included on Retro-Active and the more commercial sound of Adrenalize I think that they would have found a balance between the two. Adrenalize sounds like the pendulum was swinging back towards the hard rock/metal sounds of the past but never quite got there. My theory is that Joe Elliott, in part, blames the metal sound of the band for Steve Clarks drinking that killed him and the loss of Rick Allen's arm (Total guess based on interviews that I have watched, no firm reason). The future of the band would have gotten softer than Hn'D but not the crap that is "Sparkle Lounge." They would have maintained that more rocking side.

(Side note - Adrenalize is hands down my favorite DL album followed by Retro-Active, so there may be some bias involved. Hysteria still makes me wanna vomit tho, and always has).

Interesting take.....seems Joe will change his opibnion on whatever due to how it's gonna play out for exposure to the band. He would of made of good politician.

better than Dave Mustaine for sure.

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Even though Peter didn't play on The Elder wasn't he in the video for World Without Heroes?

Nope, that was Eric Carr. Peter had been out of the band for over a year by that point already. He'd only played on one song on Dynasty ("Dirty Livin'") and played nothin' on Unmasked at all. Anton Fig ghosted on both albums.

Dark Horseman wrote:

If Mustaine would've stayed there wouldn't have been a band after about two more albums imo.

I enjoy Bon's stuff but BiB started something incredible to me.



Here's one. What if The Crucified had continued after Pillars? They had a couple of excelllent songs already.

I am of the opinion that Bon Scott had alot more to do with Back in Black than given credit for. All one has to do is look at the lyrical style of B in B tunes and then compare that to the lyrical style of the Brian Johnson albums that followed.

I too dig B in B, but it was the begining of the end for me as being called a HUGE AC/DC fan.

James B. wrote:

3)What if Schenker stayed with UFO after the American succes of Strangers In The Night ? How different would the next studio lp of been than other than No Place To Run with Chapman ?

If ya look at what MSG did as opposed to the first Chapman record. I kinda'sorta think ya get an idea as to what could've been. Barden is a good front man but ya have to be blind not to see the similarities between him and Mogg. Especially, onstage.

My opinion is that UFO already had problems, and MSG had problems all related to ego's and chemicals. I think the band would have torn itself apart. Schenker leaving probably saved both lives and careers. They were on the right track to get huge with Strangers, but ultimately, the split saved them albeit with less success, but not destroyed by the 80's record companies (Raven and Saxon).

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I am of the opinion that Bon Scott had alot more to do with Back in Black than given credit for. All one has to do is look at the lyrical style of B in B tunes and then compare that to the lyrical style of the Brian Johnson albums that followed.

I too dig B in B, but it was the begining of the end for me as being called a HUGE AC/DC fan.

Oh yeah, in the writing department Bon was ahead of Johnson but Brian brought an energy that I though took it to a new level.

jettafiend wrote:

James B. wrote:

3)What if Schenker stayed with UFO after the American succes of Strangers In The Night ? How different would the next studio lp of been than other than No Place To Run with Chapman ?

If ya look at what MSG did as opposed to the first Chapman record. I kinda'sorta think ya get an idea as to what could've been. Barden is a good front man but ya have to be blind not to see the similarities between him and Mogg. Especially, onstage.

My opinion is that UFO already had problems, and MSG had problems all related to ego's and chemicals. I think the band would have torn itself apart. Schenker leaving probably saved both lives and careers. They were on the right track to get huge with Strangers, but ultimately, the split saved them.

Shenker and UFO always had friction within.....that is what made that chemistry to write great songs for that time period. UFO lost that opening to become HUGE in America (IMHO) It is also possible that Schenker realized this and was AFRAID of succes ????