11/11/11 - Black Sabbath

On other hand Iommi kicks ass

S.D. wrote:

Tommy Clufetos is not even remotely impressive. That stupid raising his arm straight up thing just looks retarded in those video clips, like he's been practicing drums in front of a mirror his whole life. Clown.

A bit extreme, yeah?

S.D. wrote:

Tommy Clufetos is not even remotely impressive. That stupid raising his arm straight up thing just looks retarded in those video clips, like he's been practicing drums in front of a mirror his whole life. Clown.

Tommy Lee would've been a better choice. (if they want that kinda thing)

Eyesore wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Tommy Clufetos is not even remotely impressive. That stupid raising his arm straight up thing just looks retarded in those video clips, like he's been practicing drums in front of a mirror his whole life. Clown.

A bit extreme, yeah?

Not as harsh as some of the comments over at the Hoffman board...

"just terrible stomping ham fists of ungroove"

"I can't stand the guy's playing. He's got no groove whatsoever."

"That drummer is terrible!"

"That drummer is irritating. If Bill does not rejoin (I think he will), I hope they go with someone else."

"the drummer was spending so much time flailing his arms around and bashing that he forgot to actually play something with any feeling to it."

I agree with all of the above.

Bill has groove and swing (IMHDO)

Dude in video makes me wonder if we did evolove from apes ? Looked like one behind the kit.

James B. wrote:

Bill has groove and swing (IMHDO)

Dude in video makes me wonder if we did evolove from apes ? Looked like one behind the kit.

Very true about Bill Ward but Bill Ward even as a young man ( I think he was 21 when they recorded their debut) drew from lots of different influences, the new drummer in Black Sabbath is your basic metal drummer, nothing wrong with that, it does not have range Ward does, but how many modern drummers do?

IMO Bill Ward was the best drummer Black Sabbath ever had, no disrespect intended toward Eric Singer or Cozy Powell, and IMO that was why the original Black Sabbath was so diverse because it gave Tony Iommi a wider canvas to paint on.

That being said I supported all eras of Black Sabbath, with the various line ups and I will support this one. I am just happy to see Tony Iommi back on stage,

manny wrote:

IMO Bill Ward was the best drummer Black Sabbath ever had, no disrespect intended toward Eric Singer or Cozy Powell

what about Appice and Bevan

James B. wrote:

manny wrote:

IMO Bill Ward was the best drummer Black Sabbath ever had, no disrespect intended toward Eric Singer or Cozy Powell

what about Appice and Bevan

I am not familiar with Bevan's work, he recorded on the Eternal Idol disc, but I am not sure on what tracks or if Iommi only brought him in to play triangles. Vinnie Appice was your basic drummer, and while I think he did a good job with Black Sabbath and Dio, honestly it could have been anyone drumming, it just did not stand out for me.

manny wrote:

James B. wrote:

Bill has groove and swing (IMHDO)

Dude in video makes me wonder if we did evolove from apes ? Looked like one behind the kit.

the new drummer in Black Sabbath is your basic metal drummer,

That is exactly what I thought - he is just your basic metal drummer. His style just doesn't work with the original Black Sabbath. He'd fit in fit with the non-Ozzy Sabbath, but he's missing that Bill Ward jazzy piece....

manny wrote:

James B. wrote:

manny wrote:

IMO Bill Ward was the best drummer Black Sabbath ever had, no disrespect intended toward Eric Singer or Cozy Powell

what about Appice and Bevan

I am not familiar with Bevan's work, he recorded on the Eternal Idol disc, but I am not sure on what tracks or if Iommi only brought him in to play triangles. Vinnie Appice was your basic drummer, and while I think he did a good job with Black Sabbath and Dio, honestly it could have been anyone drumming, it just did not stand out for me.

I like Appice's stuff w/ Dio's tunes. He wasn't right with the older stuff. Bevan played on the Born Again tour as well.

I'm waiting for the reunion reunion show at Download next year.

S.D. wrote:

Tommy Clufetos is not even remotely impressive. That stupid raising his arm straight up thing just looks retarded in those video clips, like he's been practicing drums in front of a mirror his whole life. Clown.

Agreed. He looked retarded when I saw him with Ozzy and he looks even retarded-er with Sabbath. That ass-clown shouldn't even be allowed to be a drum tech for Sabbath. And just the fact that they're using Ozzy's drummer just makes it feel even moreso that Sharon is behind this whole debacle. I don't like it one bit.

None of this is Tommy Clufetos' fault...get off his ass.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Tommy Clufetos is not even remotely impressive. That stupid raising his arm straight up thing just looks retarded in those video clips, like he's been practicing drums in front of a mirror his whole life. Clown.

Agreed. He looked retarded when I saw him with Ozzy and he looks even retarded-er with Sabbath. That ass-clown shouldn't even be allowed to be a drum tech for Sabbath. And just the fact that they're using Ozzy's drummer just makes it feel even moreso that Sharon is behind this whole debacle. I don't like it one bit.

I can't imagine Tony Iommi being Sharon Osbourne's puppet, this is a guy who was so determined that when his fingertips were cut off, he relearned a new way to play guitar, a guy who had such a strong belief in his vision he quit Jethro Tull to go back to his unsigned, unloved Black Sabbath, and kept the band going thru years of commercial and critical indifference.

I don't like to think of it that way either. Tony is his own man. I want to believe that. But too many red flags are popping up around this whole re-union that have Sharon's trade-mark stink on 'em. I can't stand her.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

But too many red flags are popping up around this whole re-union that have Sharon's trade-mark stink on 'em. I can't stand her.

I'd have never guessed !

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

None of this is Tommy Clufetos' fault...get off his ass.

I'm not blaming him for any of it. He's in the right place at the right time. He should be thanking his lucky braids. Still an ass-clown though. Nothing's gonna change my opinion on that.

007 wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

But too many red flags are popping up around this whole re-union that have Sharon's trade-mark stink on 'em. I can't stand her.

I'd have never guessed !

I'm pretty much live-and-let-live kinda guy, but that woman gets under my skin every time she opens her surgically-altered yap.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

None of this is Tommy Clufetos' fault...get off his ass.

I havn't read anything blaming him for the absence of Bill Ward, which is what you SEEM to be implying. I can critique his crappy playing and style all I want to. He isn't the drummer for the job IMHDO.

It's most likely a case of a "reunion" worked out between lawyers and managers with Sharon drawing a line in the sand w/ "Ozzy won't do it for any less than X%" (obviously the lion's share) leaving only the remaining % for the other guys to split. Tony's & Geezer's people signed on knowing it can't happen at all without Ozzy...Bill's people did not.

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

None of this is Tommy Clufetos' fault...get off his ass.

I havn't read anything blaming him for the absence of Bill Ward, which is what you SEEM to be implying. I can critique his crappy playing and style all I want to. He isn't the drummer for the job IMHDO.

People are calling him names and saying he's a $h!++y drummer for no good reason OTHER than he's in Bill's seat. He can obviously play...and what would YOU do if you got asked to play for Black Sabbath? I'm just saying to cut the guy some slack.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

It's most likely a case of a "reunion" worked out between lawyers and managers with Sharon drawing a line in the sand w/ "Ozzy won't do it for any less than X%" (obviously the lion's share) leaving only the remaining % for the other guys to split. Tony's & Geezer's people signed on knowing it can't happen at all without Ozzy...Bill's people did not.

makes sense.....and............as much as I dig Ward's playing and style. He more than likely cannot play alot of the stuff anymore.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

People are calling him names and saying he's a $h!++y drummer for no good reason OTHER than he's in Bill's seat. He can obviously play...and what would YOU do if you got asked to play for Black Sabbath? I'm just saying to cut the guy some slack.

My opinion has nothin to do with him sitting behind a kit on Sabbath's stage in their hometown. Lots of drummers can play..... it goes beyond rudiment and fill in regards to alot of bands. Swing, groove, and the feel in the time all apply to most Sabbath tunes and Tommy lacks all of these. He got the gig cause he knows somebody and was readily available at more than likely basic musiciian union wage. If I was in his shoes ? I'd a said yes. The only difference is that I learned Sabbath by playing along to the albums and remember the nuances and wouldn't be worried about how my braids looked swinging in the wind and my appendages would be used to keep time and do proper fills instaed of all that visual stuff. That works great for Ozzy and Stryper. Not so much in Sabbath, especially if you are focusing on the older 70's material.

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

People are calling him names and saying he's a $h!++y drummer for no good reason OTHER than he's in Bill's seat. He can obviously play...and what would YOU do if you got asked to play for Black Sabbath? I'm just saying to cut the guy some slack.

My opinion has nothin to do with him sitting behind a kit on Sabbath's stage in their hometown. Lots of drummers can play..... it goes beyond rudiment and fill in regards to alot of bands. Swing, groove, and the feel in the time all apply to most Sabbath tunes and Tommy lacks all of these. He got the gig cause he knows somebody and was readily available at more than likely basic musiciian union wage. If I was in his shoes ? I'd a said yes. The only difference is that I learned Sabbath by playing along to the albums and remember the nuances and wouldn't be worried about how my braids looked swinging in the wind and my appendages would be used to keep time and do proper fills instaed of all that visual stuff. That works great for Ozzy and Stryper. Not so much in Sabbath, especially if you are focusing on the older 70's material.

Again...general statement.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

None of this is Tommy Clufetos' fault...get off his ass.

I havn't read anything blaming him for the absence of Bill Ward, which is what you SEEM to be implying. I can critique his crappy playing and style all I want to. He isn't the drummer for the job IMHDO.

People are calling him names and saying he's a $h!++y drummer for no good reason OTHER than he's in Bill's seat. He can obviously play...and what would YOU do if you got asked to play for Black Sabbath? I'm just saying to cut the guy some slack.

My comments are strictly limilted to his flailing arms and stupid look behind the kit. And the underlying feeling that Sharon strong-armed him into the band when things with Bill couldn't be worked out. I cannot comment on his playing ability at this time.