Kickstarter rant?

The memory stick is something bands are doing, yeah. I'm sure it's kind of cool for those who don't mind digital albums. You know, the band can put all kinds of things on them, so it works in a very modern way.

But what this band did is just wrong. How about refunding me? Oh, right, they spent all that money.

Seems to me that some of the bands are looking at this as a new way to fleece fans and some fans are looking at it as a simple transaction cash for goods. It's not really going to work that way.

I've only ever pledged a few times and am very picky about the kind of artists I'll pledge to (Slash!! Because apparently he needs my money!  , same goes for Jason Newstead!) but if it's a great new band that needs a break then I'll put my hand in my pocket in the hope that they will do something really cool with the money. I recently pledged on the Purson campaign to help fund the European & U.S tour, not because I have a burning desire for a Purson T Shirt (I don't really wear band T shirts these days) but because I would like to see them get enough of a following to make lots of great records and not become a one album wonder who just fizzle out because working as an Estate Agent paid better.

I really look at it as providing seed money for a band to do the things that it's getting really difficult to do these days, if I end up with something cool out of it then great, if the band rip me off, they will only do it once.

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Seems to me that some of the bands are looking at this as a new way to fleece fans and some fans are looking at it as a simple transaction cash for goods. It's not really going to work that way.

Not sure that bands are purposely going in with the intention of stealing money from the fans. Well, maybe some.

But I think it's more of a case where they are now doing things more on their own without the aid of a record company, they underestimate expenses of everything and quickly find themselves over their heads in production costs. They've already spent whatever money they raised and can't go and ask the fans for even more money, so now the only choices are to deliver less than promised or not deliver at all.

It's a shame because the Kickstarter thing is sounds good in theory and it's awesome when it pays off. But it seems more often than not a failure on some level. And the more that happens, the less folks are going to be inclined to contribute.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

It's a shame because the Kickstarter thing is sounds good in theory and it's awesome when it pays off. But it seems more often than not a failure on some level. And the more that happens, the less folks are going to be inclined to contribute.

I've pledged to at least a dozen campaigns if not more and I've had no issues with any other.

But guess what came today? The EP...and it's a CDR, as expected. The memory stick contains the EP, plus another EP the guitarist and singer recorded recently, which I have no doubt was recorded with the money we pledged. Four tracks from Pink Punk, the singer's side-project, are included. Nothing exclusive, just one track from each release.

In addition there are five photos. Yup, just five. Three "posters," which are just bigger images but not big enough to be posters if printed out. Then there is a 12-page PDF called "Incomplete," which is drawings and poetry by the singer.

Basically, images I could find online and which were already shared via the campaign. Pink Punk tracks I already have, and a PDF of poetry I don't give a shit about.

I love their music, but I kind of hate the individuals now.

Eyesore wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

It's a shame because the Kickstarter thing is sounds good in theory and it's awesome when it pays off. But it seems more often than not a failure on some level. And the more that happens, the less folks are going to be inclined to contribute.

I've pledged to at least a dozen campaigns if not more and I've had no issues with any other.

But guess what came today? The EP...and it's a CDR, as expected. The memory stick contains the EP, plus another EP the guitarist and singer recorded recently, which I have no doubt was recorded with the money we pledged. Four tracks from Pink Punk, the singer's side-project, are included. Nothing exclusive, just one track from each release.

In addition there are five photos. Yup, just five. Three "posters," which are just bigger images but not big enough to be posters if printed out. Then there is a 12-page PDF called "Incomplete," which is drawings and poetry by the singer.

Basically, images I could find online and which were already shared via the campaign. Pink Punk tracks I already have, and a PDF of poetry I don't give a shit about.

I love their music, but I kind of hate the individuals now.

That package, especially for what you paid, is f*cking laughable at best. Either they were so self-absorbed that they sent you all the useless shit (a book of poetry??) or they just had no idea what to do since they never finished the project that they loaded it with fatty swag.

On a side note, wouldn't USB sticks end up being costly, more so than a single CDR?

Eyesore wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

It's a shame because the Kickstarter thing is sounds good in theory and it's awesome when it pays off. But it seems more often than not a failure on some level. And the more that happens, the less folks are going to be inclined to contribute.

I've pledged to at least a dozen campaigns if not more and I've had no issues with any other.

That's cool. I know that some of them do pay off in the end. But my point was, for every one or 2 (like that Ginger character you're so fond of) that goes well, there are 20 that fail to deliver. And guess which ones the general public, the same people that are parting with their hard-earned money, are going to remember?

I just don't see the appeal of the whole process in general. Not my thing.

I have a friend who is a jazz organist and he has successfully run several kickstarter campaigns to get projects off the ground. There is almost zero commercial potential for these projects outside a very niche audience and since he isn't wealthy he can't pay all the upfront costs. But he handles the Kickstarter thing well, he puts an itemized list of all the costs associated (studio costs, studio musician salaries, mastering, duplication, etc), provides precise descriptions of what the final product will be like and then delivers on what he promises. Every project he has started has been funded and then completed.

If only everyone could be that competent and reliable.  

I try to be picky and go for artists who are already known to be very fan-friendly, like Ginger and Melissa Ferrick. Given how they've always been kind of independent and close to the fans, I have confidence they will deliver. I refuse to pledge anything for bands or musicians who are already multimillionaires, like Slash. I'm not giving that guy any money until there is a product. And probably not even then, actually.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

But my point was, for every one or 2 (like that Ginger character you're so fond of) that goes well, there are 20 that fail to deliver. And guess which ones the general public, the same people that are parting with their hard-earned money, are going to remember?

I think there are more projects that eventually deliver than those that don't. We just hear more about those projects that let people down. Usually when a project is done and the product is sent people forget it, but people tend to criticize the failed ones much longer time.

There are countless of video game projects going on on Kickstarter and while I sometimes hear about successfull projects letting the backers down, most of the projects seem to deliver just fine.

Temple of Blood wrote:

I have a feeling this won't catch on as much as people predicted.

That's what was said in 2010 when Tourniquet did their Kickstarter thing, but it seems it has become stronger even though some have continuously predicted the bubble to burst.

Let's see if we see you or someone else saying this again in 2016. And then again in 2019... and so on

Eyesore wrote:

I try to be picky and go for artists who are already known to be very fan-friendly, like Ginger and Melissa Ferrick. Given how they've always been kind of independent and close to the fans, I have confidence they will deliver. I refuse to pledge anything for bands or musicians who are already multimillionaires, like Slash. I'm not giving that guy any money until there is a product. And probably not even then, actually.

I'm the same way. I've pledged to Kickstarter projects by Rhino Bucket and Swimming Pool Qs because I've seen evidence that these bands care about their fans. No way will I pledge any money to some big name artist who I know damn well could fund the project on their own.

I've always hated the entire Kickstarter thing. Your fans already pay for your band by buying your albums and paying money to see you live. If you believe in your music and a label isn't a viable option to pay for your recording and manufacturing then you should get a job to pay for your studio time.

Sorry but I HATE Kickstarter. Its a stupid idea anyway. Go get a real damn job, save your money and release the product as any real human would!!! I for one, hope this STOPS!

Lurideath wrote:

Sorry but I HATE Kickstarter. Its a stupid idea anyway. Go get a real damn job, save your money and release the product as any real human would!!! I for one, hope this STOPS!

It's not going to stop; it's only going to become more prevalent. And it's surely not a stupid idea. It's a brilliant idea.

 

Lurideath wrote:

Sorry but I HATE Kickstarter. Its a stupid idea anyway. Go get a real damn job, save your money and release the product as any real human would!!! I for one, hope this STOPS!

I see nothing wrong with the idea behind Kickstarter. With the incredible decrease in actual sales of physical product sometimes it's the only way to really justify the upfront expenditure. How you perform in a Kickstarter campaign is probably a realistic expectation of the interest in your project. If there isn't enough interest in your campaign to raise the money then it's probably not a good idea to do it anyway.

Why invest thousands of your own dollars with little hope of making your investment back? Kickstarter is the gauge and also is free publicity. It's a win-win really.

The only people really complaining about Kickstarter are folks whose business models are stuck in the last century.

Cliffy wrote:

 

Lurideath wrote:

Sorry but I HATE Kickstarter. Its a stupid idea anyway. Go get a real damn job, save your money and release the product as any real human would!!! I for one, hope this STOPS!

No. From a business standpoint, this is a responsible decision. To call people that use kickstarter irresponsible is inane. It's no different than what any other startup might do: pursue angel investors with a promise of either ROI or product incentive. Most of the bands that use kickstarter most likely work jobs and have financial demands that prevent them from getting further with their music. And let's not forget how hard it is to land or keep a job these days (I just had three friends lose their long-time positions). To say the idea is stupid is to say that start-ups other than those interested in the music industry are stupid for making a very basic choice of funding. It's been going on for decades, and Kickstarter--like PayPal--has seemed to monopolize--okay, corner--the web-based market. It's an awesome idea that should be employed more.

Don't forget how much work goes into keeping the promises regarding merch incentives following the program.

S.D. wrote:

I see nothing wrong with the idea behind Kickstarter.  With the incredible decrease in actual sales of physical product sometimes it's the only way to really justify the upfront expenditure.  How you perform in a Kickstarter campaign is probably a realistic expectation of the interest in your project.  If there isn't enough interest in your campaign to raise the money then it's probably not a good idea to do it anyway.  

Why invest thousands of your own dollars with little hope of making your investment back?  Kickstarter is the gauge and also is free publicity.  It's a win-win really.

The only people really complaining about Kickstarter are folks whose business models are stuck in the  last century.  

Said it even better than I did.

S.D. is right. How many bands financed their own projects in the past, even the successful bands?

S.D wrote:

If there isn't enough interest in your campaign to raise the money then it's probably not a good idea to do it anyway.

Yup. Remember, it was thanks to lack of interest in their Kickstarter campaign that the world was spared the horror of a new Vixen album...that alone validated Kickstarter's existence as far as I'm concerned.

On the other hand, Ron Keel (!) has a campaign going on PledgeMusic (another crowd funding site ala Kickstarter) right now to raise $$ for something called the "Metal Cowboy" album. Oy vey...

Ol' Ron lives in a different dimension.

I didn't say anything about being irresponsible. I merely stated it was dumb. Musicians CAN do this without kickstarter, I see it ALL the time.

Yes it is hard to keep a job, but those that don't have jobs to support their music should not be in a band. Do it for fun then, but in my opinion, its just lame to use these kinds of services.

Ron Keel lives here in Vegas. See him out all the time. He sings in a country variety show here, or at least he used to.

Lurideath wrote:

Ron Keel lives here in Vegas. See him out all the time. He sings in a country variety show here, or at least he used to.

Yeah, last I heard he was portraying either "Brooks" or "Dunn" (I have no idea which one ... the guy who has a beard, I guess) in a "Legends of Country" tribute show. Hey, whatever pays ya billz.

It is extremely lame to have your audience pay for your album outside of buying it upon release. I couldn't care less how many bands have been successful with it. Since the first day I heard about bands doing this I thought it was horrible and I still do.