Kickstarter rant?

I don't mind the Kickstarter projects that many bands are doing now. I've pledged to bands like Flotsam & Jetsam. I believe I pledged $20 and got the digital download and an autographed CD. Not really that bad for a new CD.

However, some of these kickstarters are ridiculous. One band I like is doing a kickstarter right now and the minimum donation is $25 (plus an additional $5 shipping) and this will get you the CD when it becomes available. $30 for the CD? Ridiculous! For $50 plus $10 shipping you get the CD and a tshirt. If band's are going to do these sorts of things in lieu of the old record company way of doing things, they should at least make it worthwhile.

On Ultimatum's last CD, instead of a kickstarter, we just did the presale on the box set once we were close to completion. We offered those who pre-ordered weekly email updates, exclusive downloads, video updates, sneek peaks at the news songs and a chance at winning merch in a drawing, which everyone won something. We also sold the single CDs for $15 and the 3-CD/1-DVD Box set for $45. That seems like a fair price to me and also give the fans who have to wait for the project some incentive to buy something that's not even produced yet.

Aaaaaand my rant is done!

That is pretty ridiculous, what if the CD dosen't get released for some reason? Then you just spent 30 dollars for nothing. I prefer to get my CDs from Amazon or Half.com.

The way Kickstarter works is that you don't get billed unless the project gets completed. But $30 for a CD is ridiculous.

Not too long ago I got my Kickstarter rewards for backing the issue of the first 2 Swimming Pool Qs albums as a remastered 2 CD set (The first one was never released on CD and the second one was really hard to find). $15 got you the 2 CD package. THen, because they actually got more money than they needed the band also sent all the backers a T shirt.

Now that's how to run a Kickstarter project!

Quote :

One band I like is doing a kickstarter right now and the minimum donation is $25 (plus an additional $5 shipping) and this will get you the CD when it becomes available. $30 for the CD? Ridiculous!

You must be talking about Bride. I thought the same thing when I saw a link to their Kickstarter on Facebook yesterday. "Say WHAT? $25 for a CD??"

For that price, not only should it be the best effing CD I've ever heard, it should also make me a sandwich, peel me a grape, and give me a hummer before turning into a pizza and a six pack of beer.

Soooo in other words... I'll pass.

I have a piece I'm working on for the Shock Totem page. It's long. But yeah, some of these bands are out of control. I don't mind paying more money than normal as long as I'm getting something unique.

For instance, I just pledged $30 for the upcoming Chimaira album, Crown of Phantoms. For $30 I'm getting a supposedly (I say "supposedly" because many bands have lied about things) exclusive "Fan Edition," which includes a DVD and 7 bonus tracks, plus a digital download and stuff I could take or leave, like having my name in the Special Thanks section of the booklet, guitar picks, etc.

To me, that's worth it. If, of course, those bonus tracks and DVD remain exclusive to those who pledged.

But some bands really go overboard. Others screw you later. One Minute Silence, for instance. It took them nearly two years to produce their album, and what was once supposed to be a full-length turned into a bullshit rip-off EP with just two new songs, a cover of one of their own songs (which I'm convinced is not a re-recording but an old demo), and two worthless remixes. Two years for two songs, at $10 a pop. Not what I paid for AT ALL. And I also paid $20 for a DVD, which considering they never recorded a full-length, is also going to be something I didn't actually pay for.

The best part is, one of the other band members released a solo EP just days after they released the digital tracks of the One Minute Silence EP to us. I can't prove it, but I'm betting we paid for those recording sessions.

Eyesore wrote:

I have a piece I'm working on for the Shock Totem page. It's long. But yeah, some of these bands are out of control. I don't mind paying more money than normal as long as I'm getting something unique.

For instance, I just pledged $30 for the upcoming Chimaira album, Crown of Phantoms. For $30 I'm getting a supposedly (I say "supposedly" because many bands have lied about things) exclusive "Fan Edition," which includes a DVD and 7 bonus tracks, plus a digital download and stuff I could take or leave, like having my name in the Special Thanks section of the booklet, guitar picks, etc.

To me, that's worth it. If, of course, those bonus tracks and DVD remain exclusive to those who pledged.

But some bands really go overboard. Others screw you later. One Minute Silence, for instance. It took them nearly two years to produce their album, and what was once supposed to be a full-length turned into a bullshit rip-off EP with just two new songs, a cover of one of their own songs (which I'm convinced is not a re-recording but an old demo), and two worthless remixes. Two years for two songs, at $10 a pop. Not what I paid for AT ALL. And I also paid $20 for a DVD, which considering they never recorded a full-length, is also going to be something I didn't actually pay for.

The best part is, one of the other band members released a solo EP just days after they released the digital tracks of the One Minute Silence EP to us. I can't prove it, but I'm betting we paid for those recording sessions.

During those 2 years, did the band ever send you any updates on how things were progressing?

That's one thing that impressed me about the Swimming Pool Qs project; I got periodic updates that often included photos of the project. Stuff like "CDs have been pressed" with a pic of a bunch of Q CDs or "Here's the packaging artwork" with accompanying photos. I thought that was pretty cool.

But like I said before, what impressed me most is that when they got more money than they needed, instead of just pocketing the extra and giving the backers what they were promised the band had T shirts printed up and every backer got one.

I hope that everyone understands that with Kickstarter, there is no legal obligation at all for the band that you are supporting to actually give you anything. They can take that cash and do what they want, and never give you the CD, DVD etc...

I think Kickstarter is misleading because most people view it as a pre-order for a CD or other product, but it is not. It's simply you giving seed money with the possibility that you might get something back.

Witchfinder wrote:

I hope that everyone understands that with Kickstarter, there is no legal obligation at all for the band that you are supporting to actually give you anything. They can take that cash and do what they want, and never give you the CD, DVD etc...

I think Kickstarter is misleading because most people view it as a pre-order for a CD or other product, but it is not. It's simply you giving seed money with the possibility that you might get something back.

That's true but any band that would do that if their goal is met would be shooting themselves in the foot. Granted it probably happens every now and then though.

So far I've been very happy with the 2 Kickstarter projects I supported (Rhino Bucket and The Qs) but I admit it is a calculated risk to support these things.

tohostudios wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

I hope that everyone understands that with Kickstarter, there is no legal obligation at all for the band that you are supporting to actually give you anything. They can take that cash and do what they want, and never give you the CD, DVD etc...

I think Kickstarter is misleading because most people view it as a pre-order for a CD or other product, but it is not. It's simply you giving seed money with the possibility that you might get something back.

That's true but any band that would do that if their goal is met would be shooting themselves in the foot. Granted it probably happens every now and then though.

So far I've been very happy with the 2 Kickstarter projects I supported (Rhino Bucket and The Qs) but I admit it is a calculated risk to support these things.

'

I agree, a band would have to be foolish to not deliver, but it seems that Kickstarter projects are never delivered on time. Also, many seem to not deliver what they had promised. I approach them all with caution and view them as a donation to the band. If I actually get something in return I view that as a bonus!

Yeah, even my lauded Swimming Pool Qs project was delivered about 6 months after the original date but at least they kept us informed of delays.

My rule of thumb on these things is if it's a band that has several label albums under their belt then I think it's a safe investment.

tohostudios wrote:

During those 2 years, did the band ever send you any updates on how things were progressing?

Their updates were a joke. Here's a bit from the piece I'm working on (it's wordy and unedited as is):

Quote :

Nearly two years ago I pledged money through PledgeMusic for a new One Minute Silence album. It was originally supposed to be a kind of raw, in-the-studio live experience, one which would be captured on CD and DVD. I pledged for both, which cost me roughly $40. Well worth it, I thought, as One Minute Silence is one of my all-time favorite bands.

Well, as time went by...nothing happened. The band promised demos, exclusive tracks, and aside from two short snippets of supposed demos, nothing ever materialized. Most updates consisted of promises for things that would also never materialize, like new songs and videos...

"...both tracks are released exclusively to pledgers next week," July 2011

"...and we should have the first track ready to give to you as a free download in October if we stay on schedule," September 2011

Neither happened, of course. The rest of the updates consisted of pointless photos anyone could find online, old videos, political rants from the singer, and a few videos of the guitarist's own acoustic music.

There were no images of the band in the studio, maybe two of them jamming, and no video of this whatsoever, which calls into question whether or not they were recent images or if there ever was a live "in the studio" performance filmed, if it happened at all. And I say that because at some point, though it still says I pledge for "the complete live recording on CD," it became an EP! WTF?

In November of 2011, the band updated everyone that they would hit their 100% goal soon! But..."ideally [they] want to hit a budget equal to 140%." Seriously? Why the hell wasn't 140% their original 100%? Considering they had yet to release ANY real evidence of new material I found the whole thing rather dubious.

In mid-December of 2011, about two weeks before the campaign ended, they updated that they "have now shortlisted rehearsal studios and are signing off on dates to start rehearsing in Jan/Feb 2012 with a current mid March date set for recording." Wait...WHAT? What the hell had they been doing all those months before?

Jump ahead a goddamn YEAR, and nothing has changed, except that there is now talk of a full-length album in the works. Take that as you will.

But today they final released something: the Fragmented Armageddon EP. In a way, I'm happy, because any new material from these guys is cause for celebration in my book. It's a five-song EP, but only TWO new songs are new, which is BULLSHIT! A two-year wait for two songs? Pffft! The other three tracks consist of a re-recording of an old track, plus a remix of it, and a remix of one of the two new songs.

So basically I paid $20 for two new songs and had to wait two years for it (or maybe longer because they have yet to deliver the physical product). I couldn't care less about two pointless remixes and a re-recording of an old song when it's nothing but a note-for-note re-recording. And this isn't even considering the DVD. Who knows when that'll come, if ever.

Now, to be fair, maybe the band was just horrible at planning. Maybe all kinds of crazy things happened which delayed everything. Given the amount of stuff that goes wrong when putting together an issue of Shock Totem I know it can happen and does happen quite often. So maybe the band was just bad at keeping us informed and stuff. Who knows.

But they did, at a minimum, fail to deliver on nearly every promise made and they changed the product which we had initially pledged for, which I find kind of reprehensible.

Ugh...just a disappointing experience overall.

So yeah, terrible overall. I guess the silver lining is that the two new songs are excellent.

When Ginger recorded the 555% album, that was a fantastic fan experience. Tons of updates, tons of videos, most of which were highly entertaining, and in the end we were treated to a great album. The whole thing was a great experience.

I did kickstarter for The Queen Of Hell from A Sound Of Thunder for $20. I got the vinyl, CD, & a signed poster. So some bands are good and some charge ridiculous prices yes!

Metalwargod

I personally will not participate in a kickstarter drive. I don't care how much I like the band. If you want me to buy your cd, then first make a cd worth buying.

I know there are very valid arguments for going the kickstarter route, & I'm not anti kickstarter. I just personally choose to avoid it.

I haven't participated in any kickstarter drives. If I like the band I'll purchase a cd and maybe a shirt anyway.

With that being said, if you would like to donate to my personal kickstarter program to pay all my bills you can send me a PM and I'll tell you where to send the cash.

I don't like Kickstarter. People have suggested the idea to me for a couple of band projects and I always shoot it down. I can't expect people to pay for something that doesn't exist. But that's just me.

I have a feeling this won't catch on as much as people predicted.

I haven't contributed to one yet.

mc666 wrote:

I personally will not participate in a kickstarter drive. I don't care how much I like the band. If you want me to buy your cd, then first make a cd worth buying.

I know there are very valid arguments for going the kickstarter route, & I'm not anti kickstarter. I just personally choose to avoid it.

I am with you. I get bands need funds to record but the most i would do it pre-order and even then I really picky.

mc666 wrote:

I personally will not participate in a kickstarter drive. I don't care how much I like the band. If you want me to buy your cd, then first make a cd worth buying.

I know there are very valid arguments for going the kickstarter route, & I'm not anti kickstarter. I just personally choose to avoid it.

I pretty much feel the same way. I'm also of the opinion of if you can't afford to put out an album, then maybe you shouldn't.

I understand the industry has changed and it's pretty much circling the crapper as we speak, so folks are looking at alternative ways to do things. But if you're not good enough to warrant a real recording contract, then I'm not gonna miss you. I'm looking at you, Vixen.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

mc666 wrote:

I personally will not participate in a kickstarter drive. I don't care how much I like the band. If you want me to buy your cd, then first make a cd worth buying.

I know there are very valid arguments for going the kickstarter route, & I'm not anti kickstarter. I just personally choose to avoid it.

I pretty much feel the same way. I'm also of the opinion of if you can't afford to put out an album, then maybe you shouldn't.

I understand the industry has changed and it's pretty much circling the crapper as we speak, so folks are looking at alternative ways to do things. But if you're not good enough to warrant a real recording contract, then I'm not gonna miss you. I'm looking at you, Vixen.

Play shows, pool money, call in favors, invest in gear, etc...but don't ask the fans to pay for music they have not even heard, IMO.

I haven't contributed and we didn't use one for the Skyliner record. I know the cost of getting into a real studio with a real engineer and working working working. I make a whole lot less than a lot of people I hear of who have these kinds of projects and we managed to do it plus we paid for mixing (and art and a pro photoshoot) and I get the record back in July to shop around. You might not get the entire thing done in one month but it's difficult for me to see how if 3-4 people are contributing evenly, you can't have an album done within a year. And if you spread yourself too thin, maybe the music should be taking up some of that hard earned cash if it's important enough.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

mc666 wrote:

I personally will not participate in a kickstarter drive. I don't care how much I like the band. If you want me to buy your cd, then first make a cd worth buying.

I know there are very valid arguments for going the kickstarter route, & I'm not anti kickstarter. I just personally choose to avoid it.

I pretty much feel the same way. I'm also of the opinion of if you can't afford to put out an album, then maybe you shouldn't.

I understand the industry has changed and it's pretty much circling the crapper as we speak, so folks are looking at alternative ways to do things. But if you're not good enough to warrant a real recording contract, then I'm not gonna miss you. I'm looking at you, Vixen.

Play shows, pool money, call in favors, invest in gear, etc...but don't ask the fans to pay for music they have not even heard, IMO.

I don't mind paying for this as long as the band give you something for your money. I mean you are investing in their new project. For $30 you should get more than just a CD. Like I said, I did the Flotsam & Jestam one and was happy to get an autographed copy of the CD for $20. If you expect the fans to invest in your new project, give them something for their money.

ultmetal wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

mc666 wrote:

I personally will not participate in a kickstarter drive. I don't care how much I like the band. If you want me to buy your cd, then first make a cd worth buying.

I know there are very valid arguments for going the kickstarter route, & I'm not anti kickstarter. I just personally choose to avoid it.

I pretty much feel the same way. I'm also of the opinion of if you can't afford to put out an album, then maybe you shouldn't.

I understand the industry has changed and it's pretty much circling the crapper as we speak, so folks are looking at alternative ways to do things. But if you're not good enough to warrant a real recording contract, then I'm not gonna miss you. I'm looking at you, Vixen.

Play shows, pool money, call in favors, invest in gear, etc...but don't ask the fans to pay for music they have not even heard, IMO.

I don't mind paying for this as long as the band give you something for your money. I mean you are investing in their new project. For $30 you should get more than just a CD. Like I said, I did the Flotsam & Jestam one and was happy to get an autographed copy of the CD for $20. If you expect the fans to invest in your new project, give them something for their money.

This is true. To only offer the CD, and not even that until you hit the $30 or more mark is absurd. An early digital download and a virtual hi-five from the band for $20? Please...

At some point the novelty of Kickstarter will wear off as people realize they dont have the cash to fund all these bands.

Eyesore wrote:

I have a piece I'm working on for the Shock Totem page. It's long. But yeah, some of these bands are out of control. I don't mind paying more money than normal as long as I'm getting something unique.

For instance, I just pledged $30 for the upcoming Chimaira album, Crown of Phantoms. For $30 I'm getting a supposedly (I say "supposedly" because many bands have lied about things) exclusive "Fan Edition," which includes a DVD and 7 bonus tracks, plus a digital download and stuff I could take or leave, like having my name in the Special Thanks section of the booklet, guitar picks, etc.

To me, that's worth it. If, of course, those bonus tracks and DVD remain exclusive to those who pledged.

But some bands really go overboard. Others screw you later. One Minute Silence, for instance. It took them nearly two years to produce their album, and what was once supposed to be a full-length turned into a bullshit rip-off EP with just two new songs, a cover of one of their own songs (which I'm convinced is not a re-recording but an old demo), and two worthless remixes. Two years for two songs, at $10 a pop. Not what I paid for AT ALL. And I also paid $20 for a DVD, which considering they never recorded a full-length, is also going to be something I didn't actually pay for.

The best part is, one of the other band members released a solo EP just days after they released the digital tracks of the One Minute Silence EP to us. I can't prove it, but I'm betting we paid for those recording sessions.

So much for the DVD:

Quote :

To the DVD Pledgers,

Please accept the band and management's apology for not being able to deliver you a DVD at this stage. We all felt that there was simply not enough material yet to make a decent film and we didn't want to send out a half finished product.

We have all your details and will be completing the film as the band head back into the studio to record the new album and we will send you out your DVD when we have it completed.

In the meantime we have sent you a USB memory stick featuring the EP, The Time and Timing EP, an exclusive new piece of writing and art from Yap and some Pink Punk tracks.

We have tried our very best to deliver as much of the pledges as we can and on this occasion we just didn't feel there was a good enough product yet. But we will send it to you in due course.

Peace
OMS

Well, at least they tried their very best. Pffft! So annoying. I paid $40 for a full-length album and a DVD chronicling the entire recording process. Instead I got a digital EP (because I've yet to receive the physical version, which I'm betting will probably be a CDR) and now, to replace the DVD they failed to deliver, I'm getting a memory stick full of worthless crap.

This band can kiss my ass.

Eyesore wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

I have a piece I'm working on for the Shock Totem page. It's long. But yeah, some of these bands are out of control. I don't mind paying more money than normal as long as I'm getting something unique.

For instance, I just pledged $30 for the upcoming Chimaira album, Crown of Phantoms. For $30 I'm getting a supposedly (I say "supposedly" because many bands have lied about things) exclusive "Fan Edition," which includes a DVD and 7 bonus tracks, plus a digital download and stuff I could take or leave, like having my name in the Special Thanks section of the booklet, guitar picks, etc.

To me, that's worth it. If, of course, those bonus tracks and DVD remain exclusive to those who pledged.

But some bands really go overboard. Others screw you later. One Minute Silence, for instance. It took them nearly two years to produce their album, and what was once supposed to be a full-length turned into a bullshit rip-off EP with just two new songs, a cover of one of their own songs (which I'm convinced is not a re-recording but an old demo), and two worthless remixes. Two years for two songs, at $10 a pop. Not what I paid for AT ALL. And I also paid $20 for a DVD, which considering they never recorded a full-length, is also going to be something I didn't actually pay for.

The best part is, one of the other band members released a solo EP just days after they released the digital tracks of the One Minute Silence EP to us. I can't prove it, but I'm betting we paid for those recording sessions.

So much for the DVD:

Quote :

To the DVD Pledgers,  

Please accept the band and management's apology for not being able to deliver you a DVD at this stage. We all felt that there was simply not enough material yet to make a decent film and we didn't want to send out a half finished product.  

We have all your details and will be completing the film as the band head back into the studio to record the new album and we will send you out your DVD when we have it completed.

In the meantime we have sent you a USB memory stick featuring the EP, The Time and Timing EP, an exclusive new piece of writing and art from Yap and some Pink Punk tracks.

We have tried our very best to deliver as much of the pledges as we can and on this occasion we just didn't feel there was a good enough product yet. But we will send it to you in due course.  

Peace
OMS

Well, at least they tried their very best. Pffft! So annoying. I paid $40 for a full-length album and a DVD chronicling the entire recording process. Instead I got a digital EP (because I've yet to receive the physical version, which I'm betting will probably be a CDR) and now, to replace the DVD they failed to deliver, I'm getting a memory stick full of worthless crap.

This band can kiss my ass.

As a businessman, if I ever found myself doing this with a project (which I wouldn't), I would be embarrassed.

A usb memory stick? Is that common these days?