Hellhammer vs. Celtic Frost

Maybe if some people actually listened to the music instead of focusing solely on the lyrical content of these bands, they might actually like it.

The recording is not why I dislike the Hellhammer, it's the incompetent musicianship.

I am a fan of both bands, but I'd choose Celtic Frost if I had to choose. I dislike Cold Lake, Wine in My Hand and Vanty/Nemesis. The rest is genius.

Lurideath wrote:

I dislike Cold Lake, Wine in My Hand and Vanty/Nemesis. The rest is genius.

I agree with that. Not because of the glam aspect, but because the material on those albums is pedestrian by comparison to their other albums.

Shawn D. wrote:

Maybe if some people actually listened to the music instead of focusing solely on the lyrical content of these bands, they might actually like it.

As for this the topic itself, I guess I'd go with Celtic Frost. I mean Hellhammer only put out demos and an EP. I don't think it would be even fair to compare them with CF. I do like Hellhammer though, and the sound of the recordings doesn't bother me at all. It actually helps it in this situation.

COLD LAKE was the only honest CF album Tom G Warrior wrote and enjoyed playing live thoroughly. It is also the only CF CD I own and enjoy. Never cared much for the rest by either band.

stormspell wrote:

COLD LAKE was the only honest CF album Tom G Warrior wrote and enjoyed playing live thoroughly.

what?

stormspell wrote:

COLD LAKE was the only honest CF album Tom G Warrior wrote and enjoyed playing live thoroughly. It is also the only CF CD I own and enjoy. Never cared much for the rest by either band.

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Joe wrote:

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Hellhammer any day over Frost.

Hellhammer songs/riffs were instantly catchy and easy to get into, like AC/DC or Black Sabbath... Celtic Frost's adventurous / avante garde metal, maybe was "cool" at the time, but when I play it now, I still don't like half their songs.

I still also think all these years later that Sodom's In The Sign Of Evil is better than that weak crap Agent Orange.

stormspell wrote:

COLD LAKE was the only honest CF album Tom G Warrior wrote and enjoyed playing live thoroughly. It is also the only CF CD I own and enjoy. Never cared much for the rest by either band.

don't know if you're joking, but I liked (and still like) a few songs off that album when they reminded me a bit of Iron Maiden.

In retrospect....Hellhammer was usually a footnote in any published article regarding Celtic Frost. I am not in a position to say much about any influence they may or may not have had. Production aside, my thoughts are this....If a band of poor musicians influenced you in some way, more power to ya. Hellhammer is a fun listen every now and then, I just don't get how or why they are getting all this accolade of any importance or relevance nowadyas ?

James B. wrote:

In retrospect....Hellhammer was usually a footnote in any published article regarding Celtic Frost. I am not in a position to say much about any influence they may or may not have had. Production aside, my thoughts are this....If a band of poor musicians influenced you in some way, more power to ya. Hellhammer is a fun listen every now and then, I just don't get how or why they are getting all this accolade of any importance or relevance nowadyas ?

truth

They ARE a footnote to Celtic Frost. It's fun stuff in a lesser-Venom kind of way, but I'll stick with Venom if I'm in the mood for that kind of stuff.

I bought Morbid Tales when it first came out (the six song version) and instantly fell in love with it, I've been a fan ever since.

I was pondering this today whie we were paving

If there NEVER was a Celtic Frost....how important or influential would of Hellhammer been ?

I don't think there is anyway to know for sure. Celtic Frost themselves never really fit into any categories. They were definitely influences on everything from death metal to black metal and even doom...yet they fit into none of those categories.

mlotek wrote:

stormspell wrote:

COLD LAKE was the only honest CF album Tom G Warrior wrote and enjoyed playing live thoroughly. It is also the only CF CD I own and enjoy. Never cared much for the rest by either band.

don't know if you're joking, but I liked (and still like) a few songs off that album when they reminded me a bit of Iron Maiden.

No, I'm serious. HH/CF suffered by the misfortune of being at the right place in the right time. Before they really knew what they want they were cult already and this affected their entire career. It wasn't until Cold Lake when Tom Warrior let himself do whatever he wanted, and it shows. You only have to watch Hammersmith Odeon video and see this huge silly grin on his face to realize how happy he is.

You have to look on Cold Lake outside of the box. As CF album it is a definite disappointment compared to its predecessors, but if taken as stand-alone, it is the perfect hair metal album - powerful, with huge hooks and songs sticking to your head after the first listen. Petty Obsession, Cherry Orchards, Juices Like Wine, Downtown Hanoi... all songs I can hum in my sleep. What more one can want?

something that isn't hair metal would be a good start.

Now that he's solo and doing Triptykon, I would say his flirtation with ye old cherry orchards is a long and distant (bad) memory.

stormspell wrote:

mlotek wrote:

stormspell wrote:

COLD LAKE was the only honest CF album Tom G Warrior wrote and enjoyed playing live thoroughly. It is also the only CF CD I own and enjoy. Never cared much for the rest by either band.

don't know if you're joking, but I liked (and still like) a few songs off that album when they reminded me a bit of Iron Maiden.

No, I'm serious. HH/CF suffered by the misfortune of being at the right place in the right time. Before they really knew what they want they were cult already and this affected their entire career. It wasn't until Cold Lake when Tom Warrior let himself do whatever he wanted, and it shows. You only have to watch Hammersmith Odeon video and see this huge silly grin on his face to realize how happy he is.

You have to look on Cold Lake outside of the box. As CF album it is a definite disappointment compared to its predecessors, but if taken as stand-alone, it is the perfect hair metal album - powerful, with huge hooks and songs sticking to your head after the first listen. Petty Obsession, Cherry Orchards, Juices Like Wine, Downtown Hanoi... all songs I can hum in my sleep. What more one can want?

It's pretty "heavy" for a hair metal album as well. It's also not over-processed, over-polished, squeaky clean "hair metal".

I refer to it as "hair" metal mostly because on the supporting tour the dude used to go out in pink blazer, L.A. Guns t-shirt, and hairspray all over. Otherwise if I have to categorize it on the merits of the music alone, I don't know what it is - Funeral Glam perhaps? It still carries distinct CF elements, but overall it is cheerful, upbeat, with big hooks and sing-along choruses.

Very strange hybrid, but somehow it works. I never had problem listening to this album from start to finish - a feat I cannot say for many other "proper" albums.

Cold Lake is a better album than Vanity/Nemesis...now THAT record sounds calculated.

I wrote them off completely, but was pleasantly surprised when they reformed, albeit briefly. However, Triptykon is Frost in all but name, so I'm a happy camper.

Vanity/Nemesis rules!

That album has always sounded fake to me, like he said "oops, we went too far with Cold Lake, better heavy it up", but they still tried to walk the commercial line...so it fell short in both aspects. Too contrived to be old school Frost, too heavy to be successfully commercial.

The guitar riff to the title track is awesome though.

That's what I like about it, it's a perfect blend of heavy and mass appeal.

I must confess after reading the discussion here today was my first real listen to Celtic Frost. And I start to like this band.

I like both bands quite well.

I always thought Hellhammer was unfairly written off due to their juvenile lyrical content. But in all actuality - Hallhammer is brimming with infectuous riffing and simplistic, yet catchy metallic anthems of the primitive sort.

Good stuff to me, but again - I'm a major Venom fan too.

Celtic Frost was a big step up, yes. Much better for sure.

But Hellhammer was the seedling, the rough draft for Celtic Frost. You can't really have Celtic Frost without Hellhammer, it needed to transpire first.