One trick pony guitarists.

I don't believe John Petrucci is a one trick pony at all. He is very diverse when he can switch from playing Metallica to some proggy Rush or Yes guitar jam.

manny wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I know this is off topic but do you think more players reflect Hendrix's style or EVH's? Both had decades to let their styles sink in so to speak.

In the 80's most definitly Eddie Van Halen, but when grunge came into vogue it more of Iommi vibe than any either VH or Hendrix, with the newer generation of metal guys, it seems to be Dimebag is most citied influence.

Manny, how do you feel about EVH's claim that he was more influenced by Clapton and Page than Hendrix?

Troublezone wrote:

I don't believe John Petrucci is a one trick pony at all. He is very diverse when he can switch from playing Metallica to some proggy Rush or Yes guitar jam.

My gosh, I couldnt agree more and I cant believe what people are saying about him. John Petrucci is awesome, not in the traditional guitar sense that he can play a thousand notes per second but that he can play so many styles and textures; he plays guitar with a nod towards the art form that is music, not just shredding for rock's sake.

Troublezone wrote:

No one said Page is a one trick pony either. I mentioned Page to say i think of him the same way i think of Hendrix, a great songwriter. He is a good player and very influential but a little sloppy in his playing compared to say Ritchie Blackmore or Uli Roth.

I give up. As soon as I hear someone say "sloppy" in regards to guitarists from the 60's or 70's I know it's a lost cause.

detuned wrote:

I give up. As soon as I hear someone say "sloppy" in regards to guitarists from the 60's or 70's I know it's a lost cause.

Troublezone=

Wow, i was right about the sensitive minds here. I'm definately not the only one to say Page is a little sloppy and inconsistant. Just ask Jack Bruce from Cream...

Schbopo wrote:

detuned wrote:

I give up. As soon as I hear someone say "sloppy" in regards to guitarists from the 60's or 70's I know it's a lost cause.

Troublezone=

This is a A and B conversation so C your way out of it.

Quote :

I give up. As soon as I hear someone say "sloppy" in regards to guitarists from the 60's or 70's I know it's a lost cause.

Well just because i don't worship them doesn't mean i don't like them. I like plenty of players from the 70's and late 60's such as Iommi, Blackmore, Schenker and Uli Roth... as a matter of fact i love 70's metal.

detuned wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

No one said Page is a one trick pony either. I mentioned Page to say i think of him the same way i think of Hendrix, a great songwriter. He is a good player and very influential but a little sloppy in his playing compared to say Ritchie Blackmore or Uli Roth.

I give up. As soon as I hear someone say "sloppy" in regards to guitarists from the 60's or 70's I know it's a lost cause.

I agree with both of you in this situation. While I do find Jimmy Page to be a bit sloppy live, it was always welcome. No wants to hear live tracks that are exactly like the studio albums. Deviation from the studio track seemed to be the vibe back in the 60's and 70's. Of the Led Zeppelin live albums I have, Zeppelin always changed the songs slightly. Plant would switch verses in "Rock n Roll", and Page would go crazy on his guitar solo in "Black Dog."

You don't wanna go to a live show and feel you have to stay in certain limits. You wanna go there and have a good time. Who cares if you are a bit sloppy (not overly sloppy, mind you)? Everyone's having a good time.

xyz wrote:

detuned wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

No one said Page is a one trick pony either. I mentioned Page to say i think of him the same way i think of Hendrix, a great songwriter. He is a good player and very influential but a little sloppy in his playing compared to say Ritchie Blackmore or Uli Roth.

I give up. As soon as I hear someone say "sloppy" in regards to guitarists from the 60's or 70's I know it's a lost cause.

I agree with both of you in this situation. While I do find Jimmy Page to be a bit sloppy live, it was always welcome. No wants to hear live tracks that are exactly like the studio albums. Deviation from the studio track seemed to be the vibe back in the 60's and 70's. Of the Led Zeppelin live albums I have, Zeppelin always changed the songs slightly. Plant would switch verses in "Rock n Roll", and Page would go crazy on his guitar solo in "Black Dog."

You don't wanna go to a live show and feel you have to stay in certain limits. You wanna go there and have a good time. Who cares if you are a bit sloppy (not overly sloppy, mind you)? Everyone's having a good time.

I never said he isn't talented but i guess my compliment of his being a great songwriter isn't enough for some. I have no problem when someone changes it up live but at least play it clean not a bunch of missed or sour notes.

Troublezone wrote:

I never said he isn't talented but i guess my compliment of his being a great songwriter isn't enough for some. I have no problem when someone changes it up live but at least play it clean not a bunch of missed or sour notes.

Page is a brilliant songwriter, he is also a brilliant rhythm guitarist, innovator of melding alternate tunings & scales into heavy rock and his acoustic playing is gorgeous. As I said earlier, when you're judging a guitar player you can't pay attention to just the solos, it's the entire package.

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

manny wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

I'm not arguing his significance or his place in metal history, but just being innovative dosnt make you the best when loads of players can copy your style that easily down the road.

Name a guitarist that can't be copied? Marino and Trower are almost better at doing Hendrix than Hendrix himself...

WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think he was a good songwriter but overrated as player.

Hendrix overrated? He totally changed the way people saw rock and roll guitar playing in the 60's. He was an innovator.

I'm not fan of The Beatles, but I don't say they are overrated because I know their historical significance and respect the spectrum of their influence. Same should be true of Jimi Hendrix.

In my opinion, Jimi Hendrix (this coming from a worshiper of King Edward) is the most important rock guitarist ever.

detuned wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I never said he isn't talented but i guess my compliment of his being a great songwriter isn't enough for some. I have no problem when someone changes it up live but at least play it clean not a bunch of missed or sour notes.

Page is a brilliant songwriter, he is also a brilliant rhythm guitarist, innovator of melding alternate tunings & scales into heavy rock and his acoustic playing is gorgeous. As I said earlier, when you're judging a guitar player you can't pay attention to just the solos, it's the entire package.

My mistake... i was focusing on his lead abilities. I agree that he is very good at rhythm.

Quote :

In my opinion, Jimi Hendrix (this coming from a worshiper of King Edward) is the most important rock guitarist ever.

I can respect that opinion but i don't necessarily agree.

Troublezone wrote:

Quote :

In my opinion, Jimi Hendrix (this coming from a worshiper of King Edward) is the most important rock guitarist ever.

I can respect that opinion, but i don't necessarily agree.

The beauty of freewill.

Troublezone wrote:

manny wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I know this is off topic but do you think more players reflect Hendrix's style or EVH's? Both had decades to let their styles sink in so to speak.

In the 80's most definitly Eddie Van Halen, but when grunge came into vogue it more of Iommi vibe than any either VH or Hendrix, with the newer generation of metal guys, it seems to be Dimebag is most citied influence.

Manny, how do you feel about EVH's claim that he was more influenced by Clapton and Page than Hendrix?

Not bothered by this at all, Clapton with Cream, the Yardbirds and to a certain extent in Blind Faith was very innovative guitartist, and you can make the argument that Clapton helped pave the way for Hendrix. After all Hendrix and his manager Chas Chandler got the idea to make the Jimi Hendrix Experience a power trio because of Cream. In turn Clapton has also admited that he was also influenced by Hendrix's playing, in particular his blues songs such as 'Red House'.

Funny enough I really don't hear Clapton. Page or Hendrix 's style anywhere in evidence on any of Eddie Van Halen's recordings. But it is well known that Eddie Van Halen was a Clapton fanatic.

There is more influence from people like Allan Holdsworth, John McLaughlin & Larry Coryell in EVH's lead guitar work.

As for Hendrix, he was playing and touring with Blues and R&B bands before he ever went over to London. The British cats were learning to play the blues from American records, Hendrix was learning to play the blues the old fashioned way...by learning from his peers. He took all those disparate styles (chicago style blues, jump blues, Ray Charles style R&B, Jazz and early funk players) and turned them COMPLETELY into his own thing. When he arrived in England he was fully formed.

As Manny mentioned earlier, Hendrix transformed everything about the way guitars were played in rock. He turned feedback into an artform, helped develop various effects, quickly learned the studio (with Eddie Kramer) and expanded on the "studio as musical instrument" thing that The Beatles started. He didn't just play the guitar, the man was channeling through the thing...he did for guitar what Charlie Parker & John Coltrane did for the saxophone.