All things Metallica

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

true, but at least "Justice" doesn't have that cut and paste flow to it

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

true, but at least "Justice" doesn't have that cut and paste flow to it

Only because we know it wasn't recorded on a computer...it's just as abrupt and sharp in it's twists and turns as Death Magnetic is...it's just that now we all are too aware of how albums are recorded.

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

true, but at least "Justice" doesn't have that cut and paste flow to it

Maybe I am bigger fanboy of Metallica then I thought I was, because I thought 'Death Magnetic' was a great return to form, and it was cool to hear the lads returning to their roots.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Spyder Jonez wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

Death Magnetic is what happens when you dust off some old B-Sides from your last recording, leave in the guitar solos then create some new lyrics just so you have something to put out.

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Exactly. That is such a huge load of crap...haha!!

I am by no means a Metallica fanboy...they've never been THE definition of Metal for me...just a band I like. But to say that Death Magnetic (as unimpressive as it is at certain points) was "a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools" is just ludicrous....haha!!

I actually believe that to a greater extent. My comment was about the songs being old b-sides. But if you listen to the songs, listen to the transitions from different riffs, verses to choruses and whatnot, many of them don't sound natural at all.

Either way, I enjoy the album; I just don't think it moves along smoothly. And I think that's because the band didn't put the songs together in a fluid way...you know, by jamming on them. They took pieces of this and that and Frankensteined them together on a computer. It works, but I think a little "garage days" mentality could have made this album ten times better.

And if that's not the case, they've just lost that ability, I guess.

Quote :

They took pieces of this and that and Frankensteined them together on a computer.

While I agree that this scenario is indeed possible given the current state of technology, it's not provable fact that this is what they did. And please don't try to tell me that you or anyone else can "hear" Pro Tools.

It could easily be that they jammed the songs like and like how the changes work...they work for them (the ones playing them) so they went with it...just like AJFA which is just as sharp and abrupt in many of its changes. They played over half of Death Magnetic live when I saw them and everything sounded great...very natural.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

Of course Pro Tools is a tool and in this case, Metallica's use of the tool was ham-handed. Those songs are disjointed and lack flow.

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

Oh, come on! And Justice for All surely has more twists and turns musically than other albums, but those transitions are seamless, there is a fluidity there that Death Magnetic woefully lacks.

Look at "Broken, Beat & Scarred." That riff that comes in at the minute mark is a fantastic riff, but it comes from out of nowhere. It's jarring to the ears. And that sort of thing happens on most of the songs. You don't hear that on And Justice for All.

manny wrote:

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

true, but at least "Justice" doesn't have that cut and paste flow to it

Maybe I am bigger fanboy of Metallica then I thought I was, because I thought 'Death Magnetic' was a great return to form, and it was cool to hear the lads returning to their roots.

Nah, not just you!

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

They took pieces of this and that and Frankensteined them together on a computer.

While I agree that this scenario is indeed possible given the current state of technology, it's not provable fact that this is what they did. And please don't try to tell me that you or anyone else can "hear" Pro Tools.

It could easily be that they jammed the songs like and like how the changes work...they work for them (the ones playing them) so they went with it...just like AJFA which is just as sharp and abrupt in many of its changes. They played over half of Death Magnetic live when I saw them and everything sounded great...very natural.

No, I can't hear Pro Tools. (Although I do think many bands/producers like Iced Earth lack the ability to get a full sound with Pro Tools, so I can hear that.) I base my opinion on Death Magnetic on how it sounds—which is disjointed to my ears—and what I saw on those making-of videos. When the band is sitting in front of a computer with the engineer and they're literally moving riffs around, then it's not hard to assume much of the album was done that way.

I like Death Magnetic, but its biggest flaw, in my opinion, is that the songs don't flow in a natural way.

Spyder Jonez wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Except that IS what happened. Well in the real world and not fanboy land, at least. Maybe before you try to slag people because they insulted your precious Metallica you should try knowing what you speak of? Just a thought. Protip: This is the internet, if you go digging you can, you know, find a bunch of the Presidio recordings that were either leaked online or clips put on the Metallica website by the band themselves during Presidio/St. Anger/Daddy doesn't hug me and so I need rehab phase.

Death Magnetic is some of the stuff that was sitting in storage and nixed when they decided to jump on the dying Nu-Metal bandwagon. You can stomp your feet up and down and demand that it isn't true but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I suggest dealing with it and stop taking it personal.

Calm down, you troglodyte! If you actually read this thread, instead of coming in like a two-year-old stomping your wee feet (and you know what wee feet mean), then you'd know I'm no fanboy.

And yes, this is the Internet, and if you were right you'd be posting those demos from the "Presidio/St. Anger/Daddy doesn't hug me" days. Or is it enough that the riff from "Shadow of the Cross" sounds a bit like one of the riffs from "All Nightmare Long?" That's enough for you?

I have no doubt that not all these riffs and such were newly created at the time. Most bands use old stuff. But to suggest these are all old b-sides is nonsense. St. Anger and Death Magnetic sound nothing alike. Not even close.

But you're the expert. Clearly.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

Of course Pro Tools is a tool and in this case, Metallica's use of the tool was ham-handed. Those songs are disjointed and lack flow.

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

Can you explain to me how, exactly, which one of us has an "opinion" and the other one has a "fact?"

Eyesore wrote:

Look...Look at "Broken, Beat & Scarred." That riff that comes in at the minute mark is a fantastic riff, but it comes from out of nowhere. It's jarring to the ears.

...Sounds okay to me *shrug*

Witchfinder wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

Of course Pro Tools is a tool and in this case, Metallica's use of the tool was ham-handed. Those songs are disjointed and lack flow.

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

Can you explain to me how, exactly, which one of us has an "opinion" and the other one has a "fact?"

Neither of us has fact, we both are expressing opinion. IMO, DM is no more disjointed than AJFA...in yours, it's more disjointed and unnatural. Two opinions...neither of us have actual, provable facts.

Eyesore wrote:

Look...Look at "Broken, Beat & Scarred." That riff that comes in at the minute mark is a fantastic riff, but it comes from out of nowhere. It's jarring to the ears.

It's jarring to YOUR ears...I think it sounds fine.

Yeah, I don't hear a problem with any of the songs on DM either, they don't sound the least bit "unnatural" to me.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

Of course Pro Tools is a tool and in this case, Metallica's use of the tool was ham-handed. Those songs are disjointed and lack flow.

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...

Can you explain to me how, exactly, which one of us has an "opinion" and the other one has a "fact?"

Neither of us has fact, we both are expressing opinion. IMO, DM is no more disjointed than AJFA...in yours, it's more disjointed and unnatural. Two opinions...neither of us have actual, provable facts.

No,no,no! That's not how these fights are supposed to go. You are supposed to say that your opinion is fact and my opinion is just an opinion and then I say the opposite. This goes on for days and pages.

Quote :

Neither of us has fact, we both are expressing opinion. IMO, DM is no more disjointed than AJFA...in yours, it's more disjointed and unnatural. Two opinions...neither of us have actual, provable facts.

For the record, I think AJFA is a lot more "cohesive" than DM.

I think it's funny how some people are saying "Beyond Magnetic" is more "fluid" than the actual album...especially since those songs are from the SAME SESSIONS!

Just picked up beyond magnetic. It's a fun listen and I'm really digging the attack of hate train. The lyrics are really rough. I've got to think that they would have been tightened up if the songs were developed further. But regardless of the flaws it's an entertaining listen.

Eyesore wrote:

Calm down, you troglodyte! If you actually read this thread, instead of coming in like a two-year-old stomping your wee feet (and you know what wee feet mean), then you'd know I'm no fanboy.

Yes clearly i'm stomping my feet. Has nothing to do with your attitude at all.

Eyesore wrote:

And yes, this is the Internet, and if you were right you'd be posting those demos from the "Presidio/St. Anger/Daddy doesn't hug me" days.

You're not too bright, or you're trying to get me banned for breaking the rules.

"If you do not own the rights to the material you post, be it picture hotlinking, mp3-files or whatever, don't post it. "

http://www.heartofmetal.net/t7429-the-board-rules

Yes clearly, because I won't post copyrighted material on this forum and break the rules that must mean i'm wrong. Nice logic you got there. Better luck next time on your lame little flamewar attempt.

All right, enough of this horse@#$%.

Eyesore, Spyder - both of ya knock it off or this thread goes into lockdown. Capeesh?

Don't make me get the hose.

Fat Freddy wrote:

All right, enough of this horse@#$%.

Eyesore, Spyder - both of ya knock it off or this thread goes into lockdown. Capeesh?

Don't make me get the hose.

Sometimes it feels like we're all in 1st grade getting yelled at by the teacher.

Eyesore wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Black album? Bob Rock
Load/Reload? Bob Rock
St. Anger? Bob Rock

Lame ass producer? Bob Rock

And if you really want to see a band trying to be something they're not, which is what everyone claims those above-mentioned albums represent, then see Death Magnetic.

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

You know what I hear when reading this post? I hear nothing short of the same crap I've been reading since Death Magnetic was released - personally, I think Death Magnetic is a GREAT album! - Load and ReLoad are truly great albums as well, of not better - how dare people label those albums alternative? There is NOTHING alternative about them - just because they're far removed from what Metallica used to sound like, doesn't make them alternative - one thing I thought was freakin' funny about the criticism of Metallica was, that some reviewers/fans could listen to Ratt/Poison and LOVE it, yet hate everything Metllica puts out. Seriously, just LISTEN to Load/ReLoad - there is absolutely NOTHING alternative about that music - it is Hard Rock/Heavy Metal ala Metallica. I'm so f#cking tired of these haters, be it young or old, ignorant or religious - you really should open your eyes and come to the realization that Metallica don't give a living F*CK about what you think - they know their fans, and if you keep on slandering them, they know you aint a true fan. So just f*ck off, haters.

Settle down, you dingleberry! Jeez.

He finally snapped.

Fat Freddy wrote:

All right, enough of this horse@#$%.

Eyesore, Spyder - both of ya knock it off or this thread goes into lockdown. Capeesh?

Don't make me get the hose.

Thanks!

And by the way, this is FF's favorite move:

Spyder,

There are a lot of blind, drooling fanboys of certain bands here, but Eyesore is one of the few here who is NOT that. He's pretty uncompromising and unconventional in his musical opinions.

Eyesore,

Calling new people names here doesn't make you look very good and frankly is against the rules. Talk about grade school antics.

Yes, one reason why I dig this forum is it does not resort to knuckle dragging mentalities and insults like other sites that like to drag you down to that level.

Members here can argue and disagree to infinity as long as the rude name calling is left out I think?