All things Metallica

Temple of Blood wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Metallica does what Metallica wants to do. I never bought the "Bob Rock's fault" argument which makes them sound like victims. James and Lars know exactly what they want and act accordingly. Unfortunately, what they want is crap.

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

Bingo!

And this is entirely true. There are very few natural transitions on Death Magnetic. This has been my biggest complaint of that album, despite enjoying it quite a bit. But it's definitely a bunch of ideas spliced together on a computer.

You could see them doing that during the pre-album videos they were posting. They just wrote a bunch of riffs, sat down at a computer, and put them together. Then clearly added some half-assed, probably ad-libbed in-the-moment lyrics, and called it a day.

I dig that they have families and stuff, but can they really be so busy that they can no longer get into a room and just jam on some tunes?

you still gotta give it to a band that can generate such feelings, negative or positive after all these years.

Oh, and one other thing: 99.9% of you dummies have no idea what autotune is or sounds like, so shut the hell up!

This autotune crap is getting out of hand. Everyone is a music expert these days and can somehow pick out autotune from all kinds of songs not by Madonna and Cher. So annoying.

And while we're here, 99.9% of the time you dummies talk about Jon Schaffer playing "triplets," he's NOT!

Eyesore wrote:

This autotune crap is getting out of hand. Everyone is a music expert these days and can somehow pick out autotune from all kinds of songs not by Madonna and Cher. So annoying.

It's really not difficult to hear where Autotune was used and where it wasn't. Once you know how Autotune alters the voice and what it does, it becomes pretty obvious. A good example is Alice Coopers "I am Made of you" from Welcome 2 my Nightmare. That's an example of using Autotune for good. It get's overboard when it's used on basically every song (as Ke$ha does for example) or if it's used to "improve" live recordings (as Toto did on the Falling in Between Live album)

And Autotune doesn't come from the devil and needs to be despised, it can be a helpful tool, to correct small mistakes or be used for the benefit of a song. Thing is, more often than not, Autotune is used as a cheap and lazy way to finish a recording sessions. Instead of having a singer record the same vocal track over and over until he nails it, they just run it through autotune.

Witchfinder wrote:

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

Death Magnetic is what happens when you dust off some old B-Sides from your last recording, leave in the guitar solos then create some new lyrics just so you have something to put out.

I see nothing wrong with iPod headphones, i've gone through several CD players and walkmans(all of which quit on me after a year or two), and I honestly can't tell the difference in sound quality. I really don't see the advantage of owning a pricey stereo over an iPod, i've been ripped off one too many times to bother wasting money on another one. As for Death Magnetic, I never noticed the whole "loudness" thing, even when I actiely tried listening for it after I heard others complain about it, I don't know, maybe it has something to do with my Aspberger's Syndrome, but regardless I enjoy Death Magnetic and consider it a fine return to form.

ShadowAngel wrote:

DevZor wrote:

You know if you listen to Death Magnetic cranked thru really sh!tty speakers that whole production thing becomes a non-issue. I don't really like listening to DM thru headphones, but pumping thru the piece of junk stereo in my work vehicle it sounds fantastic! Just LOUD obnoxious guitar metal for a drive or for motivation while working.

That's basically why we have the loudness war. More and more people use MP3, use MP3 players and crappy headphones (everytime i see someone using an iPod with those horrible iPod earplugs, i just want to cringe...how can anyone enjoy that?) or crappy PC Speakers and thinks if they "take it up to eleven" it sounds awesome.
People dislearned to hear a good audio quality. You see so many kids and teens blaring music through their cell phone speaker and think it's great. It makes me sad.

I understand your point, I can get downright anal about sound quality. I love sitting back with a pair of 300 dollar headphones, or a decent sound system, and listening to something that is gorgeously produced. There is a time and a place for it. There is also a place for raw, loud, and blistering metal/rock'n'roll. The kind of loud that needs nothing more than the stock stereo in a piece of crap vehicle, or indeed the cellphone speaker. I don't always have top of the line gear around, and when I don't I'd rather listen to something that just jams than miss all the dynamics that I wouldn't be hearing anyway. Time and place.

As for people dislearning to hear good audio... that just isn't true. Every generation has its audiophiles and its people who don't give a rip. Every generation has its albums produced to the hilt, and its basement recordings. I'm sure most people on this board have albums that are close to their heart that leave much to be desired in the audio quality department.

DevZor wrote:

As for people dislearning to hear good audio... that just isn't true. Every generation has its audiophiles and its people who don't give a rip. Every generation has its albums produced to the hilt, and its basement recordings. I'm sure most people on this board have albums that are close to their heart that leave much to be desired in the audio quality department.

Completely true. I'm the resident audiophile here and I'm sure most people think I'm crazy, but they just don't know what they are missing.

iPods can sound great, providing you use a lossless file type and a nice pair of studio-monitor headphones.

Spyder Jonez wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

Death Magnetic is what happens when you dust off some old B-Sides from your last recording, leave in the guitar solos then create some new lyrics just so you have something to put out.

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Witchfinder wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Black album? Bob Rock
Load/Reload? Bob Rock
St. Anger? Bob Rock

Lame ass producer? Bob Rock

And if you really want to see a band trying to be something they're not, which is what everyone claims those above-mentioned albums represent, then see Death Magnetic.

Metallica does what Metallica wants to do. I never bought the "Bob Rock's fault" argument which makes them sound like victims. James and Lars know exactly what they want and act accordingly.

Did you ever see the documentaries about the recording of the Black album? Bob Rock had them do stuff they were not at all comfortable with.

Also, Anton Crobijn (sp?) made them cut their hair for the infamous Load photo sessions. The band wanted iconic band photos like Anton did for U2, but he just didn't see how that could be done with 4 guys with long hair and black clothing, so he came up with the idea, NOT James or Lars. Did you ever see the flack Jason got when he cut his a few years earlier than the rest of the boys?

If anything, Load and Reload were colored by brit-pop, and southern rock, not grunge! Lars was a huge Oasis fan at the time, and James listened to Lynyrd Skynyrd and their likes. It does not sound like brit-pop, southern rock or grunge.

"Until it Sleeps" sounds like it was influenced by Alice in Chains.

S.D. wrote:

DevZor wrote:

As for people dislearning to hear good audio... that just isn't true. Every generation has its audiophiles and its people who don't give a rip. Every generation has its albums produced to the hilt, and its basement recordings. I'm sure most people on this board have albums that are close to their heart that leave much to be desired in the audio quality department.

Completely true. I'm the resident audiophile here and I'm sure most people think I'm crazy, but they just don't know what they are missing.

iPods can sound great, providing you use a lossless file type and a nice pair of studio-monitor headphones.

Yeah, you are the resident audiophile, but not crazy! LOL!!!!

For me, I use my ipod to listen to in the car where it doesn't matter if I am listening to an MP3, they sound just fine through Toyota's stock system plugged into the AUX jax.

At home, I prefer to listen to lossless files or CD's - they sound better. And it's all SD's fault that I can tell the difference on how cymbals sound in MP3 vs CD on my home system!!!!!!

BTW - I like Death Magnetic a lot and the songs sounded great when I saw them live!

Eyesore wrote:

Spyder Jonez wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

Death Magnetic is what happens when you dust off some old B-Sides from your last recording, leave in the guitar solos then create some new lyrics just so you have something to put out.

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Exactly. That is such a huge load of crap...haha!!

I am by no means a Metallica fanboy...they've never been THE definition of Metal for me...just a band I like. But to say that Death Magnetic (as unimpressive as it is at certain points) was "a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools" is just ludicrous....haha!!

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Spyder Jonez wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Death Magnetic is a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools. It's the least organically created album I have ever heard.

Death Magnetic is what happens when you dust off some old B-Sides from your last recording, leave in the guitar solos then create some new lyrics just so you have something to put out.

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Exactly. That is such a huge load of crap...haha!!

I am by no means a Metallica fanboy...they've never been THE definition of Metal for me...just a band I like. But to say that Death Magnetic (as unimpressive as it is at certain points) was "a bunch of riffs that are stitched and stapled together with Pro-Tools" is just ludicrous....haha!!

Except for the fact that the album was assembled exactly like that. So if that's ludicrous, blame Metallica.

I think Metallica could record the greatest album in the world, and album that would produce an instant ear orgasm, and there will always be a legion of so called fans ready to tell you Metallica sold out!! If Cliff Burton had lived they would never have gone in this direction!! They suck!!! and on and on and on and .....

I got their new EP of leftover tracks from Death Magnetic and IMO it sounds pretty good. I won't touch their LuLu project with a 39 1/2 foot pole, however.

Getting a little feisty in here. Must be a Metallica thread.

Eyesore wrote:

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Except that IS what happened. Well in the real world and not fanboy land, at least. Maybe before you try to slag people because they insulted your precious Metallica you should try knowing what you speak of? Just a thought. Protip: This is the internet, if you go digging you can, you know, find a bunch of the Presidio recordings that were either leaked online or clips put on the Metallica website by the band themselves during Presidio/St. Anger/Daddy doesn't hug me and so I need rehab phase.

Death Magnetic is some of the stuff that was sitting in storage and nixed when they decided to jump on the dying Nu-Metal bandwagon. You can stomp your feet up and down and demand that it isn't true but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I suggest dealing with it and stop taking it personal.

I do not believe eyesore is a Metallica fanboy!!!

As far as 'Death Magnetic' I never heard or saw this Metallica as trying to ride on nu-metal's dying coattails, I saw it more as an attempt by the band to return to their thrash roots.

Spyder Jonez wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Except that's obviously not what happened. Outside of your head, at least.

Except that IS what happened. Well in the real world and not fanboy land, at least. Maybe before you try to slag people because they insulted your precious Metallica you should try knowing what you speak of? Just a thought. Protip: This is the internet, if you go digging you can, you know, find a bunch of the Presidio recordings that were either leaked online or clips put on the Metallica website by the band themselves during Presidio/St. Anger/Daddy doesn't hug me and so I need rehab phase.

Death Magnetic is some of the stuff that was sitting in storage and nixed when they decided to jump on the dying Nu-Metal bandwagon. You can stomp your feet up and down and demand that it isn't true but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I suggest dealing with it and stop taking it personal.

Just because some of the riffs may have existed beforehand doesn't automatically mean that Death Magnetic (which IMO is simply a "decent" effort...not great by any means) was pieced together on a computer from those recordings.

The riffs/ideas could very well have been (or obviously were) "sitting in storage" for however long (months/years/whatever). That doesn't automatically mean they were somehow "not good enough" for the first time around. That just means that other ideas won out at that given time.

It's not some sort of artistic crime to reach for the tapes when putting together a new album...bands have done that for decades. The only difference is now, thanks to the internet, more people are aware of it.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

It's not some sort of artistic crime to reach for the tapes when putting together a new album...bands have done that for decades. The only difference is now, thanks to the internet, more people are aware of it.

I totally agree with this!!!!!
There's always a case where the band wanted the song, but the label or producer nixed it!(one example: A Change Of Seasons was supposed to be on Images and Words but was killed by the producer and the label and was finally rerecorded a few years later as an ep). Old or new, as long they are good ideas...... who cares!

manny wrote:

I think Metallica could record the greatest album in the world, and album that would produce an instant ear orgasm, and there will always be a legion of so called fans ready to tell you Metallica sold out!! If Cliff Burton had lived they would never have gone in this direction!! They suck!!! and on and on and on and .....

Absolutely. It's Pavlovian. Just say the word "Metallica" and you'll be assaulted with variations on "They sold out with the black album," and "Only their first four albums are worth a crap!"

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

It's not some sort of artistic crime to reach for the tapes when putting together a new album...bands have done that for decades. The only difference is now, thanks to the internet, more people are aware of it.

Van Halen literally just did that (hell, they've always done it) and they ended up with a pretty cool album, too.

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

S.D. wrote:

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

Of course Pro Tools is a tool and in this case, Metallica's use of the tool was ham-handed. Those songs are disjointed and lack flow.

Witchfinder wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Look...

Pro Tools is just what it says it is...a "tool" for recording/arranging. What you DO with that tool depends on how the finished product will come out. I think people would be surprised by how many people "build" compositions from bits and pieces. This is a "riff-based" music we are dealing with here, not classical composition. It's not like most metal bands are creating a beautiful melody to weave the entire song around...they are coming up with cool riffs and then combining them together to create a complete piece.

In the wrong hands that could come out disjointed, but if the artist knows what they are doing you could never tell they wrote the album that way.

Of course Pro Tools is a tool and in this case, Metallica's use of the tool was ham-handed. Those songs are disjointed and lack flow.

Here's where we get into Opinion vs. Fact. It's no more "disjointed" than AJFA...