Definition of Metalcore - Metalcore versus Thrash

A well known musician made this comment and I was very suprised by it. How would you respond to it?

"Ok heres what I dont get, what is MetalCore? Is it a mixture of Metal and Harcore? If so then that is cool cause thats what Slayer, Anthrax and Exodus are and that would make MetalCore actually just a new name for Thrash. I thought kids just made that metalCore thing up cause they didnt know what Thrash was but maybe im wrong."

steelers wrote:

I thought kids just made that metalCore thing up cause they didnt know what Thrash was but maybe im wrong."

Yup. He's wrong.

Metalcore generally always has the same 'screaming' or 'core' vocals. Most of the vocalists sound the same to me. Thrash vocalist are far more varied from extreme to the melodic. Megadeth doesn't sound like Slayer doesn't sound like Anthrax doesn't sound like Vengeance Rising doesn't sound like Testament, etc. etc. etc.

Metalcore generally replaces solo sections with "breakdowns", which I tend to find rather boring. Guitar solos aren't a big part of metalcore, if at all. At most they are an afterthought. In thrash, well executed guitar solos are an integral part of the songwriting process.

Metalcore incorporates an entirely different style of guitar playing and generally involves a lot of strummed chords as opposed to actual riffs or staccato style picking.

Metalcore bands generally rely on downtuning a full step or more to gain a heavy sound, whereas most thrash bands tune to standard E or Eflat tuning, with occassional Drop D tuning. Generally, the music is heavy due to the "heavy riffs" as opposed to the tuning of the guitars.

There is a vast difference between "thrash" and "metalcore". Even bands that were considered crossover like Nuclear Assault, S.O.D., Cryptic Slaughter, D.R.I., which incorporated far more punk influences than say Slayer or Kreator, don't sound like metalcore.

Thrash and metalcore are not the same.


According to Wickipedia:

Quote :

Metalcore is a fusion genre that incorporates elements of hardcore punk and heavy metal. The term is a portmanteau of heavy metal and hardcore punk. Metalcore is typically melodic, emphasizes breakdowns, and sometimes discards the conceptual trappings of both its parent genres.

Thrash metal is a subgenre of heavy metal music, one of the extreme metal subgenres that is characterised by high speed riffing and aggression. Thrash metal songs typically use fast, percussive and low-register guitar riffs, overlaid with shredding-style lead work.

Another definition I found on-line, albeit a vague definition:

Quote :

Metalcore
This genre is currently very popular and combines heavy metal with hardcore. They use the musical style of heavy metal, especially melodic death metal, and the shouting vocal style of hardcore. are also heavily utilized.
Examples: As I Lay Dying, God Forbid, Killswitch Engage, Shadows Fall

Thrash Metal
This genre evolved from NWOBHM and became heavier and more extreme. It's characterized by fast guitar and double bass drum with aggressive but understandable vocals. Some of the most popular bands in metal started as thrash bands, although most evolved as they went along.
Examples: Anthrax, Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer

It's as clear as night and day.

Some examples of each should suffice.

Very well put man! They are not the same, not even close.

Not all thrash bands tune to E, Eb, or drop D though. I know a lot of bands who tune to D standard. Not important, just want to say that.

Lurideath wrote:

Very well put man! They are not the same, not even close.

Not all thrash bands tune to E, Eb, or drop D though. I know a lot of bands who tune to D standard. Not important, just want to say that.

Yup, some do, you are correct. I guess I was just referring to the majority, or the more well known bands. Vengeance use to use Drop D tuning on some songs. Ultimatum has been tuning to E flat since our first demo. I think some of the thrash bands that fall closer in line to death metal tend to use D tuning. So there are exceptions to every rule.

i can't believe people still get confused by this. the two sound nothing alike. not like power metal & grindcore.

ultmetal wrote:

According to Wickipedia:

Quote :

Metalcore is a fusion genre that incorporates elements of hardcore punk and heavy metal. The term is a portmanteau of heavy metal and hardcore punk. Metalcore is typically melodic, emphasizes breakdowns, and sometimes discards the conceptual trappings of both its parent genres.

I would argue that Metalcore has no punk left in it. I think that Crossover, and even some thrash, has more real hardcore punk (i.e. Minor Threat, early Crucified) in it than Metalcore does. I think the hardcore genre of the 90's went a long way towards taking out the punk, and metalcore goes just about the rest of the way. Maybe the only thing left from punk in metalcore is the simplicity.

Punk is cool, which is why grindcore is the only core that is worthy. Real punk with real death metal. Same with Crossover: real punk with real metal.

ultmetal wrote:

Metalcore generally replaces solo sections with "breakdowns", which I tend to find rather boring. Guitar solos aren't a big part of metalcore, if at all. At most they are an afterthought. In thrash, well executed guitar solos are an integral part of the songwriting process.

I do hate the lack of solos in the metalcore genre. Puts me to sleep.

wikipedia wrote:

Metalcore is a fusion genre that incorporates elements of hardcore punk and heavy metal. The term is a portmanteau of heavy metal and hardcore punk. Metalcore is typically melodic, emphasizes breakdowns, and sometimes discards the conceptual trappings of both its parent genres.

I disagree with this. I know they have the melodic choruses but there is nothing melodic about the boring heavily downtuned guitars and awful monotonous shouting that metalcore consists of.

I dont even know how we can be comparing thrash with metalcore.

I just registered here to say that I agree with Chuck Schuldiner on the topic of sub genres: Subgenres are ox manur and metal is metal. Listen to what you like.

GREW50ME wrote:

I just registered here to say that I agree with Chuck Schuldiner on the topic of sub genres: Subgenres are ox manur and metal is metal. Listen to what you like.

Thanks for your opinion.

I agree that people should just listen to what they like and not worry about what's cool and what is not. However, Subgenres are there simply to give people an idea of the sound. Metal is not Metal. TNT doesn't sound like Slayer doesn't sound like Hammerfall doesn't sound like Candlemass doesn't sound like Killswitch Engage. There are vast differences in styles. Metalcore and thrash are two very different styles of music.

So perhaps you could expand upon your post.

ultmetal wrote:

GREW50ME wrote:

I just registered here to say that I agree with Chuck Schuldiner on the topic of sub genres: Subgenres are ox manur and metal is metal. Listen to what you like.

Thanks for your opinion.

I agree that people should just listen to what they like and not worry about what's cool and what is not. However, Subgenres are there simply to give people an idea of the sound. Metal is not Metal. TNT doesn't sound like Slayer doesn't sound like Hammerfall doesn't sound like Candlemass doesn't sound like Killswitch Engage. There are vast differences in styles. Metalcore and thrash are two very different styles of music.

So perhaps you could expand upon your post.

I agree with Ult, you wouldn't believe how hard it is explaining metal to those who never listen and want to know more. The subgenres are incredibly helpful.

GREW50ME wrote:

I just registered here to say that I agree with Chuck Schuldiner on the topic of sub genres: Subgenres are ox manur and metal is metal. Listen to what you like.

Sounds like good advice. I'm gonna start right now. I'm tired of listening to all this music that other people like besides me. It's time to listen to what I like.

I got yer definition of metalcore right here:

Thrash with WOOOOARRRRGH vocals. No thanks.

metalcore and thrash


one ACTUALLY has influence from real "hardcore" from the 80s and the other just tacks on "core" to their name for some reason.